[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Faraday]

it's basically 9:3 nightless so town should win, i.e. you set-up a chain of roleblocks, so a kill can't go off, scum can't ever make a kill as even if they're in a roleblock chain together they have to nk.

[DonJosh]

How do you return results for a roleblocker? I.e.
What order are the roleblocks resolved?

1. Order the players randomly along with the player they targeted (this is just for the sake of organization). Scum should be at bottom (this makes it easier).

Spoiler: Example

A-I are Roleblockers
J is Mafia RB
K is Godfather
L is Goon

• A-F
• B-H
• C-A
• D-L
• E-F
• F-I
• G-B
• H-D
• I-K
• J-B
• K killed H
• L did nothing

2. Go down the list and check if the first player was blocked. If so, keep going doen the list until you find a player who has not been roleblocked. There will always be someone who has not been blocked, since there are two players who do not have the ability to block***.

Spoiler: Example

A-I are Roleblockers
J is Mafia RB
K is Godfather
L is Goon

• A-F
• B-H
• C-A
• D-L
• E-F
• F-I
• G-B
• H-D
• I-K
• J-B
• K killed H
• L did nothing

3. Once you have found an unblocked player, cross off the person that they blocked from the list.

Spoiler: Example

A-I are Roleblockers
J is Mafia RB
K is Godfather
L is Goon

• A-F
• B-H
• C-A
• D-L
• E-F
• F-I
• G-B
• H-D
• I-K
• J-B
• K killed H
• L did nothing

4. Repeat step 2 until you reach the bottom of the list.

Spoiler: Example

A-I are Roleblockers
J is Mafia RB
K is Godfather
L is Goon

• A-F
• B-H
• C-A
• D-L
• E-F
• F-I
• G-B
• H-D
• I-K
• J-B
• K killed H
• L did nothing

***Unless nobody blocked the GF or Goon. This is one of the problems I need to work out.

it's basically 9:3 nightless so town should win, i.e. you set-up a chain of roleblocks, so a kill can't go off, scum can't ever make a kill as even if they're in a roleblock chain together they have to nk.

Another major problem I'm trying to fix. Any suggestion on how to prevent this would be much appreciated

[Magister Ludi]

Unfortunately thats the nature of the beast/your setup.

[DonJosh]

Unfortunately thats the nature of the beast/your setup.

What is? Problems?

[Shadow Dancer]

How do you return results for a roleblocker? I.e.
What order are the roleblocks resolved?

That's simple, I guess (though not as simple as Faraday makes it to be - because a RBed RB cannot RB any one else):

case I)

RB block in any kind of cycle - it doesn't matter because all actions are irrelevant.
examples:

quantum state case

Code: Select all

! <=> !

undecidable paradox case

Code: Select all

! -> ! -> !
^---------´

case II)

RBs block in a chain with a beginning and an end - starting at the beginning all odd blocks take effect, all even ones are blocked.
examples:

Code: Select all

O -> X -> O

Code: Select all

O -> X -> O -> X

case III)

Branching chains - obviously branching works only in one direction because any one can be targeted by multiple RBs but every RB can only have one target.
Solution is simple: If any chain before the branching point has odd length the branching point RB is blocked, else he isn't.
examples:

Code: Select all

O -> X \
        > O -> ...
O -> X /

Code: Select all

O -> X \
O ------> X -> O -> ...
O -----´

case IV)

Finally if a chain flows into a cycle... You resolve it like case III) but really don't even need to as of case I)
examples:

Code: Select all

O -> X -> ! <=> ! 

Code: Select all

O -> X <=> O 

Code: Select all

O -> X -> O -> X 
     ^---------´

golden rule:

always start at the loose ends and just ignore cycles.

What is mouch more interesting is the same with busdrivers (I was in a marathon with multiple busdrivers... ReaperCharly mod? I am not sure... But his action resolution was rather arbitrary. The probelem is that busdrives can branch both ways and are not commutative...)

That being said: I don't I really like either idea. Seems way to easy to break it and/or to shut down a scumteam as town.

[DonJosh]

I'm considering throwing in a couple more roles, definitely a scum Power Role and possible a Town Power Role. Just to solve the easy town win

[IceGuy]

Self-Balancing Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Doc
7 VTs
2 Neutral Survivors

Special Mechanics:
If a Neutral Survivor is targeted at night, he joins the faction of the player who targeted him. The action itself fails (if it's an investigative action, he can choose what answer it should return). If both a town and a mafia player target him, he joins the mafia (but both actions fail).
When a player is recruited, a random member of the opposite faction gets additional powers.
First town recruit: 2-shot Role Cop
Second town recruit: Roleblocker
First mafia recruit: Macho Cop
Second mafia recruit: Watcher + 1-shot vig

---

Dethy 2.0

7 Inquirers
2 Mafia Goons

Every Inquirer has a different question he asks every night:
"Is player X mafia?"
"Is player X not mafia?"
"Is the answer to the question of player X not dependent on the alignment of the target?"
"Has player X ever targeted me?"
"Did player X target me this night?"
"Has player X ever targeted a scum player?"
"Does the question of player X include a negation?"

However, they do not know which question they have, they only submit the name of the player and get "Yes" or "No" as answer.

[Shadowmod]

Self-ballancing

Howfar is that setup self-ballancing?
Does town RB + 1-shot vig imply two roles or one person with both actions?
Why would you want to add a town RB in a scenario were town has 3 PRs and scum none, anyway?!
The recruitable survivor mechanic sounds quite interesting, but you PR choices seem rather arbitrary.

Dethy 2.0

This is not mafia (even less than normal Dethy). It's but a logic riddle. Looks like something that I would join as a marathon game, but nothing for the open queue.

[IceGuy]

Self-ballancing

Howfar is that setup self-ballancing?

When a faction gains a player, the other faction gains a power.

Does town RB + 1-shot vig imply two roles or one person with both actions?

Two randomly selected people (but they may be the same).

Why would you want to add a town RB in a scenario were town has 3 PRs and scum none, anyway?!

Copy&paste error. Should've been Watcher.

The recruitable survivor mechanic sounds quite interesting, but you PR choices seem rather arbitrary.

I tried to add PRs to offset the additional player on the other side, but I'd leave the final choices to somebody more experienced.

This is not mafia (even less than normal Dethy). It' but a logic riddle. Looks like something that I would join as a marathon game, but nothing for the open queue.

I like mafia games with a "logic riddle" element to them. It's a matter of tastes. And if this isn't mafia, then Dethy, Medical, Quack and such setups also aren't.

[Shadow Dancer]

You should addd PRs whose effectiveness does not depend on the existence and usage of PRs on the other side, i.e. rather cop, vig or kill protection/vengeful roles rather than watcher, tracker or roleblocker.

[LlamaFluff]

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

[Shadow Dancer]

Bodyguard cannot selftarget and dies, too, if there's a kill attempt on his target, right?

[Powerrox93]

Self-Balancing Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Doc
7 VTs
2 Neutral Survivors

Special Mechanics:
If a Neutral Survivor is targeted at night, he joins the faction of the player who targeted him. The action itself fails (if it's an investigative action, he can choose what answer it should return). If both a town and a mafia player target him, he joins the mafia (but both actions fail).
When a player is recruited, a random member of the opposite faction gets additional powers.
First town recruit: 2-shot Role Cop
Second town recruit: Roleblocker
First mafia recruit: Macho Cop
Second mafia recruit: Watcher + 1-shot vig

I like the concept of this, but the problem I have with this is what will happen if one of the town PRs get the additional power. What will happen then? Will they become a JoaT, or will they be able to use all their abilities simultaneously?

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

Yes it is,

nominate

[IceGuy]

I like the concept of this, but the problem I have with this is what will happen if one of the town PRs get the additional power. What will happen then? Will they become a JoaT, or will they be able to use all their abilities simultaneously?

Simultaneously. But I can also imagine giving the extra power just to VTs.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

I agree, simple is better
The upside of this setup is definitely that it allows town to keep pro-town players alive... But I think the role cop is too strong. With a kill and a rolecop scum can scan a town of only 9 inital players incredibly fast and hitting the guard with the kill is a rather lucky conincidence (unless the guard could self-target in which case you could just make him a bomb anyway). It's definitely more in town's favour than ) 9:2 mountaineous which is about 65%:35%, but I think a bodyguard alone doesn't make it for town.
I would make the role cop a role blocker.

[Tragedy]

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

I agree, simple is better
The upside of this setup is definitely that it allows town to keep pro-town players alive... But I think the role cop is too strong. With a kill and a rolecop scum can scan a town of only 9 inital players incredibly fast and hitting the guard with the kill is a rather lucky conincidence (unless the guard could self-target in which case you could just make him a bomb anyway). It's definitely more in town's favour than ) 9:2 mountaineous which is about 65%:35%, but I think a bodyguard alone doesn't make it for town.
I would make the role cop a role blocker.

Well, the problem is that it's more harder to find who the hell is the Elite Bodyguard from 9 Towns.
Meaning 1/9 chance to hit Elite Bodyguard.
So it's more fair to keep the Role Cop ability.

[Shadowmod]

Daystart, so 1/8. Guard will most likely die N3 or earlier. And even if they hit the guard town lose a lynch.
But maybe it's just me... I am much more a fan of distributing town power among several minor PRs than relying on one single PR which makes the whole game very dependent on which player gets that one PR.

[Powerrox93]

I like the concept of this, but the problem I have with this is what will happen if one of the town PRs get the additional power. What will happen then? Will they become a JoaT, or will they be able to use all their abilities simultaneously?

Simultaneously. But I can also imagine giving the extra power just to VTs.

Not a good idea. The game becomes way to swingy then.

[LlamaFluff]

EBG 11

1x Town Elite Bodyguard (kills attacker)
8x Town Townie

1x Mafia Goon
1x 1-Shot Mafia Role Cop

Simple is better

I agree, simple is better
The upside of this setup is definitely that it allows town to keep pro-town players alive... But I think the role cop is too strong. With a kill and a rolecop scum can scan a town of only 9 inital players incredibly fast and hitting the guard with the kill is a rather lucky conincidence (unless the guard could self-target in which case you could just make him a bomb anyway). It's definitely more in town's favour than ) 9:2 mountaineous which is about 65%:35%, but I think a bodyguard alone doesn't make it for town.
I would make the role cop a role blocker.

Roleblocker I dont like in this setup at all since it can take out the bodyguard from the equation (and why make a role to counteract the setups main point?).

My thought is that we have (likely) 8 town roles alive at night, so im going to guess about a 25% chance of the EBG going off (few should be obv not kill or protect). With the role cop, it allows scum to scout out a little bit, since the EBG actually working swings the game strongly in the direction of town. That and EBG is a role that will prevent a lynch or cause a 1:1 trade to occur. If 25% of the time it kills scum, I think allowing the scum to know a little bit more about who might have to role is better. You also have to think the chance of FINDING the EBG is 25% the first night (killed or RCed), after that it decreases to odds of NK. Most of the time it will give scum someone who isnt the RC, meaning chances are (1-town)/town starting the second night of hitting town or about 80%. Think I like leaving him one shot.

Also obviously EBG isnt allowed to self-protect.

[Shadowmod]

Nevermind, stupid me, I somehow read over the "1-shot" part...

[Shadowmod]

NightWatch
Wolf Pack (Scum Team): 3 Werewolves - share a factional nightkill - share a factional track - the same werewolf can only either track or kill in each night
Night-Watch (Town-Aligned): 2 Nightwatchmen - Watchers & Masons - cannot target themselves or each other
Town: 7 Vanilla Townies 1 Sleepwalker - visits a random person every night - does not know he is the Sleepwalker - flips as Vanilla on death

[Tragedy]

@Shadowmod:
If Sleepwalker visits the guy whose going to die while werewolves are there, it makes 'em look pretty suspicious. I think Sleepwalker is useless. Very useless.

[Empking]

@Shadowmod:
If Sleepwalker visits the guy whose going to die while werewolves are there, it makes 'em look pretty suspicious. I think Sleepwalker is useless. Very useless.

I don't think he's meant to help the town

[Shadowmod]

Yes, Tragedy that's the way the role works and is supposed to do so. Sleepwalker is basically a miller variant, decoy for all the investigations (of both sides) flying around... I cannot see how that isn't obvious... I think it helps scum slightly more than town, though. But double watcher masons are a force to take on for scum and track is but a double edged sword with this role constellation.

[SleepyKrew]

Hi Hoopla!