Into Africa - Over

[Cirno]

1.Lowell isn't going to let himself be daykilled.

2.You can't really claim I ignored the wagon when you include a quote of me explaining why I didn't want any part of it in the same post.

3.My behavior during your gambit boils down to the fact that I don't trust you one bit.

And that is pretty much all I'm going to say in my defense.

[elvis_knits]

Hmm.

I think the GreyIce quickhammer was the worst thing Cirno has done, after his ambivalence toward GreyIce's scumminess.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Zebras are unable to see the color orange

Lowell (4) - Cirno, Seacore, elvis_knits, Charlie
Amrun (3) - snarky, Altilysian, Lowell
Cirno (2) - curiouskarmadog, vezokpiraka
snarky (1) - Amrun

Not Voting (1) - Calcifer

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[Snarky]

Amrum: except me, who do you think is scum?

ckd is right. Cirno is scum. + at least one other on the lowell wagon (Charlie? who is he replacing?)

[Cirno]

So why do you think Lowell is town?

[Snarky]

Never said that

[Cirno]

So do you believe both Lowell and I are scum?

[Snarky]

Seems like you never heard of bussing. Anyway, I dont know about Lowell, but I think you are scum.

[elvis_knits]

And that is pretty much all I'm going to say in my defense.

Does that mean you will not be talking to me about your scummy GreyIce hammer?

[Cirno]

@Snarky: I understand your opinion on me, but do you mean to say you have no opinion on Lowell?

@EK: I can repeat what I already posted if you really want me to. I don't feel like my hammer needs to be justified.

[elvis_knits]

Fine. Let's do this again. I think I can explain better and more concisely this time so people will see how scummy it is.

>@everyone...I want your stance on grey...why is he a bad wagon?
Does 'everyone' apply to me, too? Lynching Grey would be interesting. But I don't hang out with no filthy hyenas, so I'm staying here.

GreyIce lynch would be interesting, not "GreyIce is scummy."
No comment on his allignment.
Purposely evasive.
Ambivalent.
Leaves you open to voting him later if needed.

>ckd
>are you saying you dont agree with my case against Grey?
Wasn't really commenting on your case. But assuming that 1125 is your case, then yes, I disagree with it.

>do you think he is town? why?
He goes back and forth with me. I don't really care if he is lynched or not, but his lynch would be interesting, information wise.

Disagrees with CKD's case on Grey = soft support of Grey.
When pressed to say if you think Grey is town, the answer is: who knows, and I don't care if he is lynched. DON'T CARE?

You guys are making me feel bad for GreyIce and I don't like it.

Soft support of Grey. Not something I would expect you to say before you vote him.

I think I like the Grey wagon a bit more because the reasoning for some of his votes seem more like excuses rather than reasons. And because he is voting me. Thought I'd say that before someone else does.

Very wishy-washy and admittedly a self-preservation dislike of Grey because he thought you were scum.

THEN, OUT OF NOWHERE:

>Dragging on the day by continuing to argue and asking for his claim

Nope.

VOTE: GreyIce

What was wrong with asking him for a claim? Why did you pounce on a lynch you were, at best, ambivalent about?

I think this is better than a lurker lynch.

unvote Lowell

VOTE: Cirno

[Cirno]

Gonna repeat that disagreeing with a case does not mean you support the target of the case. Not gonna bother arguing the rest.

[Seacore]

I'm also not liking the way Cirno was reacting to snarky's vote.

As well as liking EK's case.

Vote Cirno

[Cirno]

Y'all foolish.

[Altilysian]

I'm feeling ambivalent about this Cirno lynch. Many of his explanations make perfect sense. However, I am concerned that he is riding the hyena flavor a bit too strongly, using it to explain siding with HezCop and not cooperating with the watcher claim. I'm uncertain with the hammer on GI too. On the one hand, I don't see hammers (even sudden ones) as scummy as most do just because I feel many townies are just anxious to see a flip having come all the way to L-1. On the other hand, I'm skeptical of the interesting info Cirno gathered from GI's lynch.

I don't really care if he is lynched or not, but his lynch would be interesting, information wise.

What was this information?

[elvis_knits]

Gonna repeat that disagreeing with a case does not mean you support the target of the case. Not gonna bother arguing the rest.

Disagreeing with a case throws doubt on the case and throws doubt on the subject's scumminess. It is a soft support of the subject. If you disagree with the case but still think the person is scum, I expect you to present a different case.

Again, why didn't you want to wait for a claim from GreyIce?

[Charlie]

Hang on, I can't sheep that last vote.

[elvis_knits]

Did you do your ten pages of homework yet, Charlie?

[Amrun]

Elvis: No, I think he killed Elli out of threat and assumed everyone would jump on it and tried to defend pre-emptively. It came off very nervous.

He buddied Zel1ink, trying to joke with and appease him, and as you said, they'd been going at each other and it stuck out. MOST of Snarky's votes have been opportunistic - just like his more recent vote.

Cirno wagon is okay, buti am sticking with Snarky and hoping I get more support. He has the highest chance of being scum, for sure.

The most damning thing in Cirno's ISO is his intense fence-sitting on GI, followed by a hammer, followed by continued denial of said fencesitting, but Snarky is still a better lynch imho.

[Altilysian]

Hang on, I can't sheep that last vote.

Why not?

[curiouskarmadog]

ummm, what?

why would someone who isnt reading and said they were sheeping a vote, not sheep Cirno....

Charlie I want an explanation now.

Elvis: No, I think he killed Elli out of threat and assumed everyone would jump on it and tried to defend pre-emptively. It came off very nervous.

He buddied Zel1ink, trying to joke with and appease him, and as you said, they'd been going at each other and it stuck out. MOST of Snarky's votes have been opportunistic - just like his more recent vote.

Cirno wagon is okay, buti am sticking with Snarky and hoping I get more support. He has the highest chance of being scum, for sure.

The most damning thing in Cirno's ISO is his intense fence-sitting on GI, followed by a hammer, followed by continued denial of said fencesitting, but Snarky is still a better lynch imho.

this post looks like "I think snarky is scum (for X) and I am not removing my vote even though it is obvious no one is going to lynch him now...and Cirno is scummy looking because of A, B, C, and X(!!!!), but I still will keep my vote on a useless wagon"

seems like you are covering your bases there....while pushing a wagon that you dont want your name on.

[curiouskarmadog]

mod: vote count please.

[Cirno]

Disagreeing with a case throws doubt on the case and throws doubt on the subject's scumminess. It is a soft support of the subject. If you disagree with the case but still think the person is scum, I expect you to present a different case.

Your argument seems to be that by disagreeing with CKD's case, even if it is a bad case, I am undermining the wagon. Therefore, as town, I should build my own case against CKD to show support of the wagon. To do otherwise is scummy. I disagree. This is only scummy if you have a reasonable expectation of me, as Town, to build a case in that situation. You don't, for a couple reasons. Firstly, I stated that I didn't care if GI was lynched, which should have indicated to you that I would not go out of my way to get him lynched. Secondly, it was clear that I wanted to lynch someone else, which removes all impetus for me to build a case against GI.

I didn't wait until GreyIce claimed because I didn't care. Not just about his claim, but about the game in general. I was in "fuck it" mode once I started posting Ainsley pictures.

@Atil

: I didn't mean to imply that GreyIce's lynch would give special information, only that the information gained from his lynch would be more interesting as he was aggressive and polarizing.

Anyway, this post was fun to write, so I guess I'll argue with you guys after all.

[Amrun]

No, ckd. It is nowhere near deadline and there is no point in abandoning my preferred lynch now.

Seacore, you also suspected Snarky. What happened to that?

Cirno, if you hammered gi for info, why haven't you analyzed it at all?

[Cirno]

I didn't hammer GI for info.