Into Africa - Over

[Cirno]

CKD, since it is just us here and we are both fairly smug, you wanna have a good old fashioned avatar bet? If I am anything other than town, you can choose my avatar. If you are anything other than town, I choose yours. If we are both town, we both lose and neither avatar is changed. Conversely, if we are both anything other than town, we both win and both avatars are changed. Town-algined power roles are considered town, of course. The avatars remain changed for a period of one month.

Are you a bad enough dude to accept this bet?

[curiouskarmadog]

have we played together before?

even though this apparently against the rules (i know this, because I have made the above statement or something the like 2-3 times and have been called out on it) in my mafiascum game career...I love the cut of your gib..

dear man, I except your gentleman's wage...lol, though you will be disappointed.

it is obvious you dont really care about your avatar...still like the attempt!

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Cirno (4) - curiouskarmadog, vezokpiraka, elvis_knits, Seacore
Amrun (3) - snarky, Altilysian, Lowell
Lowell (2) - Cirno, Charlie
snarky (1) - Amrun

Not Voting (1) - Calcifer

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[elvis_knits]

Disagreeing with a case throws doubt on the case and throws doubt on the subject's scumminess. It is a soft support of the subject. If you disagree with the case but still think the person is scum, I expect you to present a different case.

Your argument seems to be that by disagreeing with CKD's case, even if it is a bad case, I am undermining the wagon. Therefore, as town, I should build my own case against CKD to show support of the wagon. To do otherwise is scummy. I disagree. This is only scummy if you have a reasonable expectation of me, as Town, to build a case in that situation. You don't, for a couple reasons. Firstly, I stated that I didn't care if GI was lynched, which should have indicated to you that I would not go out of my way to get him lynched. Secondly, it was clear that I wanted to lynch someone else, which removes all impetus for me to build a case against GI.

I didn't wait until GreyIce claimed because I didn't care. Not just about his claim, but about the game in general. I was in "fuck it" mode once I started posting Ainsley pictures.

This is simple, dude.

If you think CKD's case sucks, but GI is scum for different reason... say that. You don't have to build me a powerpoint presentation. You could say it in one sentence. "I think CKD's case on GI sucks, but I still think GI might be scum."

Did you do anything like that?

No.

You just said CKD's case sucks.

Which undermines the GI wagon.

The other point is: you should not have been voting/hammering/lynching a person you were so ambivalent about.

If you didn't care if GI was lynched, why lynch him?

If you didn't care about the game, why even participate? Just to be a pain in the behind and fuck with the game that the rest of us are putting time into to try to win?

WTF

None of that is the mindset of a town-sided player, and I don't believe you are one.

[Seacore]

*waiting for calcifer to confirm/deny the willingness to be vigged*

[Cirno]

@EK: Even if you pull the indignant townie bit, I'm gonna keep arguing the logic.

1.The person I want to lynch is CKD. I also express suspicion of GI.
2. CKD asks me what I think of his case against GI. I explain why I disagree with it.

Why does it make any sense to build a case on GI in this context? Why does it make any sense to even repeat my suspicions of GI (and yes, I had explained my suspicions of GI)? Why is it scummy to not have done so? It doesn't and it's not.

Also, I wasn't fucking with the game. I didn't hammer GI believing that he would certainly flip town. I still played to win, I just didn't play to stay alive. Hence I hammered GI to get a flip regardless of the trouble it would bring me. Hence I fucked with CKD's gambit knowing people wouldn't like it.

[curiouskarmadog]

Hence I fucked with CKD's gambit knowing people wouldn't like it.

this is a lie.

you didnt think it was a gambit at the time.

[Cirno]

But I knew that refusing to go along with the claims would get me in trouble.

[Cirno]

If you don't come up with a counter quick I'm gonna add you to the Behinds Spanked tally.

[Seacore]

This is going to be one of those situations where we lynch her, because it's the right thing to do, she flips town and then she chalks it up personally as a win because it's us being stupid not her own actions that got her lynched.

[Cirno]

I think I already said it was my actions that put me in this situation.

[Cirno]

Also, there is no requirement to lynch someone you think is town, dude.

[Amrun]

Where did you express suspicion of gi, cirno?

[Seacore]

Logically, I think you are scum and that you definitely must be todays lynch to provide resolution to this whole issue.

Emotionally I get this feeling you're going to flip town and it'll just be that you've been terrible and anti town.

[Altilysian]

Dammit, I just have to keep coming back to you not extracting that useful information from the GI lynch and not showing an active thought process regarding it.

You say that you don't really care if he's lynched, but that it will provide useful info. You say that the wagon is not special and should not be treated differently.

I just have a hard time reconciling those two points. It just seems like the logical connection is that by its very nature, an "interesting" wagon is "special."

You start off the next day with a vote on Elvis with no content related to that lynch.

Why even make the "interesting info" comment in the first place? The implication is that you would grab that information and use it.

So it brings me back to

I don't really care if he is lynched or not, but his lynch would be interesting, information wise.

This implies you would analyze the information after the lynch, does it not? If so, why are you so hesitant to share that information? Is it because you never really truly believed that and just said that to gently support a lynch? Like "I won't take a hard stance on this lynch, but hey the lynch will give us info (though actually in the back of my head, I don't really care about info)."

Also,

Where did you express suspicion of gi, cirno?

Sorry if you're repeating this ;_;

[Calcifer]

Cal, would like to hear some feedback from you..you said you would be okay with being vigged, but didnt want to be off guard...if you read the thread you would have seen that there was support for your vigging..so why did you post?...how do you feel like your game is going? do you think your presence in the game is helpful or hurtful? Who is scum?

I want to have final words on who to lynch when I die. Have I been playing a good game? Hell no. Have I been playing a vigworthy game? Hell no.

Seacore is as good as confirmed scum and needs instant righteous death. He is by far my surest scumread, and I would be glad to lurk to the death if you can A) kill him first and then shoot me, or B) promise me his death on a townflip from me.

[Seacore]

Well obviously I'm not going to agree to that. I don't think anybody else finds me scummy at the moment, either.

[Lowell]

You know, you really don't need to distance from a lurker.

i doubt you believe that.

Hehe Yay I'm important!

[vezokpiraka]

Lowell (2) - Cirno, Charlie
snarky (1) - Amrun

Not Voting (1) - Calcifer

I bet half the scum are in here. Hello Mr I will only hammer and Lowell( the counterwagon)

[Charlie]

Wahaha!
You're hilarious.

[curiouskarmadog]

Wahaha!
You're hilarious.

any particular reason you find this funny?...you think he is way off?..why?

[Cirno]

@Atil: I think it is more understandable if you look at the context of the comment. CKD asked me if I thought GI was town, and I replied that I was unsure of GI's alignment, but that his lynch would be "interesting, information wise".

I hammered GI more out of "fuck this, just end the day" than for information. I didn't care to analyze the wagon because at that point I wasn't going to put a lot of effort into this game. My vote on EK was more serious than my vote on DK or GI, but I was still in "fuck this shit" mode, hence the comment about Ainsley rather than an explanation of my vote.

I mean "I think I like the Grey wagon a bit more because the reasoning for some of his votes seem more like excuses rather than reasons." when I refer to expressing suspicions of Grey.

[Charlie]

ckd, I find vezokpiraka to be just so random and furniture-ish it becomes funny.
I have given it some thought, and decided that I am the best sheep.
UNVOTE: Lowell
VOTE: Cirno

Regarding the hypothetical flip: A sheep vote should not influence one's read on the sheeper or the sheepee. If correct, it is at most null and if wrong, the impact should be scummy to null. Overall not a very good read provided the sheep was genuine. Go ahead and tell me I'm insincere.

[Amrun]

That's L-1.

Perhaps we should make Cirno self-hammer to avoid possible hammer shenanigans?

Cirno, would you be willing?

No one hammer yet, we still need to vig.

[Amrun]

I just realized my plan makes no sense.

never mind.

STILL TOUGH we need to vig.