Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[jasonT1981]

Sleep is for the weak

[Captain Corporal]

Sleep is for the weak

To be fair to me, it is midnight, and I've been sleeping terribly lately, what with trying to until 2am for the past week.

[Captain Corporal]

Actually, goodnight everyone.
Please don't hammer until I can explain myself, at least partially tomorrow.

[Quilford]

Quil, why did you feel the need to answer MOIs question to CC yourself?

because it would make no difference either way
I was online
I have played with CC before and remember him stating it

[jasonT1981]

what about the rage?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quil, why did you feel the need to answer MOIs question to CC yourself?

Why does Quil providing a solid link to Captain himself providing the information I directly ask for mean he is scummy in the least?

Jason

– Full set of reads on all players – Go !!!!!

--

To answer a few points of MoI's post... (on a mobile)
I couldn't drop a vote. You seem to have "forgotten" I was V/LA.
I dropped a huge tell to everyone with papers just after I got back, and my actual claim came 5 posts or so later.
I WAS SPECULATING ON THE SETUP. I'M JUST GUESSING.
You say my play has been bad. I agree.

You absolutely could have dropped a vote BEFORE you went on V/LA. This is a bullshit response.

So you dropped a paper tell? What does it say to you about Sleepy who has been crumbing Paper left and right but ostensibly didn’t pick up on it?

I don’t care what you were doing … it isn’t Pro-Town at this stage and looks very much like you were trying to get yourself further “Hey, I’m Mod confirmed via my role and via my Paper possession”.

Um, whut? You just said you stand by your attacks. Now you are saying they were bad / scummy?

Also, if I am scum, as you say, and there is a scum roleblocker, things are not looking good for tonight.

Why would you even post this statement if you are Town? You should KNOW you aren’t scum and there should be no ‘if’ about it.

Also, if you think I'm scummy due to bad play, take a look at some of my other games. Almost lynched D1 (then I replaced out), in another lynched D1, in another put at L-1. In fact, my first game was my best because everyone attributed my scumminess to newbiness.

Oh god … self-meta that says “I always play scummy as hell”

Must … resist .. urge … to …. All … Caps …. respond ....

[IceGuy]

I'm keeping my paper tonight. That, coupled with the fact that I'm a PR and town, means you shouldn't kill me.

Depending on your alignment, this is going to earn you a spot on my "most brazen gambits" list or on my blacklist.

Mafia is a TEAM GAME. If you have a town win condition, you die and we win, you also win. Period.

Also, ASK THE MOD WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEBODY WITH A PAPER DIES. The worst thing that can happen is that he says he isn't going to tell you on purpose.

Just putting this out there, it doesn't seem likely that the papers would be given to scum, because the scum would obviously never give them up, defeating the purpose of them. If scum could have them at the beginning, I think that some transferral system would be put in place upon the scum's death, but that doesn't seem very likely either.
Or maybe there's a role specific to the paper.
What does everyone think about this?

I can imagine several situations:
- The whole "paper" thing is a scumgambit. So far, only two scumreads of mine have claimed paper.
- The papers are in the game, but they don't actually do anything.
- There are several scum factions, and they are competing for the papers; there is a reward for working together but also a possibility to screw the other faction over.
- The players can't freely decide to whom they give the papers to.
- etc. etc.

Captain, post everything you know about the papers (without violating rule 5 of course). Then, select the strongest townread you have, and give him your papers.

Your logic is borked.

Yes, it is, because I was thinking of normal day voting, and I didn't take into account that the Night Executioner isn't voted by majority but by plurality. So yeah, my strategy wouldn't work.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@VEZOK - Please hold off from Executing Cod until we can confirm that ChaosOmega isn't being replaced. I don't want inactive players in the Night if it can be avoided.

--

Hey everyone, tomorrow I'll be fully active, just stopped by to make a quick post.
Skimmed the last few pages and I've been generally pleased in the direction today is going. From what I saw of Cod earlier, I thought he was scum.
I don't like, however, that MoI is a candidate for the night killer, for one reason only. I'm at the top of his scumlist. I don't understand how his highest scumread is someone who's made almost no posts, due to being V/LA, but that doesn't matter at this point. I don't plan on getting killed anytime soon.

Also Captain ... please point to your strong 'Paper' breadcrumb in this post. It was your first one back from V/LA.

[mallowgeno]

Chaos Omega isn't making me happy...Prodding him if he doesn't post CONTENT by tonight

[jasonT1981]

Jason

– Full set of reads on all players – Go !!!!!

Acknowledging post. Can't post in detail right now got a few things going on at the house. back later.

[vezokpiraka]

I'm not hammering until everything is set up.

The ultimatum was for you to get up because I see people that don't do anything until deadline hits and I thought it will bring more discussion.

[mallowgeno]

Please note Rule #15 has been removed, ty MoI

[implosion]

I have resolved to stop procrastinating and read. READING NOW.

[implosion]

I guess I just found it odd that you could still believe that Codfish was town based on one post (you stated that it was #44 - any chance that I could get you to elaborate on why?) when there was such a large amount of information which pointed to him being scummy. That's... pretty much it as far as I'm concerned.

It's #43. I'm not sure why i said #44... a post might have been deleted. Anyway, "don't twist my words" and "my posts are in no way scummy" both gave me gut town vibes. They felt like the kinds of things that would be more awkward to say as scum than as town. I mean, obviously, the first could be playing the victim and the second could be an attempt to dismiss a case, but the diction of them seems genuine, particularly the second. It just seems like it would be strange to assert "my posts are in no way scummy" as scum at that point in the game rather than something like "you're wrong, i'm town" or something like that.

I'm fine with electing MoI night executioner.

Everybody, stop claiming who you are going to vote for at night, and whom the night executioner should kill. This is basically an invitation to whatever power roles scum has to target the night executioner or the designated kill.

I think I agree with not telling who the night executioner to kill; however, if we don't coordinate night executioner votes, the scum can all just pool their votes and get a nightkill. If we coordinate our night votes, we can essentially get a double lynch, in a way.

We need to make sure to confirm CC's claim tomorrow. It should be easy. Just put someone at E-2 and have him vote for that person.

First line of SK's post 300 reads scummy, implying that his unspecified power role claim should grant him town credit.

We have to deal with the fact that some votes might be fake, but it still allows analysis.

No, it really doesn't. I mean sure, people would have to give reasoning for votes, but we have plenty of that during the day. It's a thirteen player game, and mafia are apparently allowed to selfvote. Assume a 3-4 person scumteam and the mafia have 6-8 votes. Since the voting mechanic gives the scum a disadvantage, it's likely that they have a large scumteam; execution one was 4:9 (one of the four was a traitor, but still.) So essentially, if we don't coordinate the night vote, we give the scum a free nightkill and then they can claim whatever the hell they want to.

CC's defense in 315 reads distinctively as somewhat pissed-off and somewhat wanting-people-to-not-be-stupid town. Either way, I retract the scumread on him. He's probably town. A scum double voter is completely possible. A town double voter is also completely possible. Anyone saying one is more likely than the other (*glares at vezok and zang*) is trying to outguess the mod. Do not try to outguess the mod. Looking at some scum roles in execution one, we really don't know what to expect.

Reading SK's 333 actually makes me dislike iceguy. Even if SK is probably scum, ice's case is kind of bad in that it doesn't really explain why most things are scummy, much of it just sort of comments on SK's play.

CC's 337 sounds interesting. Actually, I'm getting more of a townread on CC every time he posts at this point... I'd be fine with people who have these paper's just giving them to him. Do you know what happens if you get them? Like, do you have any idea at all?

SK 343, not sure how to interpret. SK, do you have any idea what would happen if you got all of the papers?

CC, you really can't vote differently from everyone else, or the scum will get a free nightkill... the town has to decide on a consensus. We have no reason to split votes up.

I'm skimming ice vs SK.

By the way, just saying, the traitor last game had two votes. They did not however know that they did (at least from my understanding of the role pm). Either way, I still think CC is town at this point.

Since I think scum won't be able to get their choice for Night Executioner through without at least one or two townies also voting for their candidate, we know that a player which has no or just one claimed vote(s) on him wasn't the Executioner. Since most town players are going to go for you anyway, this should reduce the field of potential executioners to less than half of the players, and players which claimed to have placed the only vote on some player are subject to extra scrutiny.

Sake of argument. Lets say three scum and codfish flips town, leaving it as 3:9 going into the night.
Assume that the scum coordinate their votes and all vote for one of their own. Why assume this? Well, why

wouldn't

they do that? Lets also grant that CC is a town doublevoter and that the mafia have no extra voting abilities. So scum has 6 votes, town has 10.

Lets say that the town splits their votes evenly between two people (5 on x, 5 on y). Well, scum choose the executioner.
Lets say that the town splits their votes unevenly between two people (7-8 on x, 2-3 on y, again, sake of argument). Scum can essentially choose who the killer is between x and y (and if either X or Y is scum, scum will choose that person) or possibly even force no one to get the kill, possibly by accident.
Lets say that no one in the town announces who they will vote for in the night, but we say "vote either X or Y." One of the above will happen, unless the votes lean DRASTICALLY towards either X or Y. If the votes have to lean so drastically for a town member to get the kill, then we may as well announce who we're voting for during the day phase so that we can create a block of votes that the scum can't surmount.

Whether or not CC is appealing to fear, he's reading as town right now to me.

I believe that the claims about the papers, just because it seems like something that would be really strange for scum to lolgambit about. It also sounds like we might be able to figure out more about them as the game goes on. If nothing ever happens, I might become suspicious, but for now, I believe the claims that they exist. I don't see any reason that they'd be given only to town, considering how little we know about them, and especially considering MoI's point at the end of 390.

[Captain Corporal]

Sorry, I really am not up to posting for a little while. I'm feeling terrible. Will be back tonight.

[IceGuy]

I have resolved to stop procrastinating and read. READING NOW.

You didn't read an important paragraph:

Yes, it is, because I was thinking of normal day voting, and I didn't take into account that the Night Executioner isn't voted by majority but by plurality. So yeah, my strategy wouldn't work.

I already dropped my night strategy idea since it started from incorrect assumptions.

Reading SK's 333 actually makes me dislike iceguy. Even if SK is probably scum, ice's case is kind of bad in that it doesn't really explain why most things are scummy, much of it just sort of comments on SK's play.

I consider things like flimsy, obviously made-up cases, switching reads with no justification, contradictions and unspecified, unprompted claims as "standard" scumtells which don't need to be explained.

We need to make sure to confirm CC's claim tomorrow. It should be easy. Just put someone at E-2 and have him vote for that person.

This confirms his PR claim, but doesn't confirm his alignment. Since, as you described, such a claim can be easily checked, I doubt he'd fakeclaim that anyway.

[Captain Corporal]

Before I launch into a bigger post...
I just noticed something. Scum doublevoters are less likely to be put into the setup. Why? Scum already get two votes at night. The whole doublevoting thing would be way less powerful for scum.

I know that's weak, but I believe it means something.

[SleepyKrew]

But scum don't have two Dayvotes.

[Captain Corporal]

I know they don't, but how does it make sense to give someone a role with only half the power it was intended to have? Why change the original doublevoter? Scum would have no use for an extra vote at daytime in this setup, as everything they do at day basically has to conform with the town - at night is when they start plotting.

[Captain Corporal]

Ok, all I know about the paper is that when one person has them all something will happen. I can pass it on each night. That's it.

My breadcrumb was 100x more obvious than SK's, because it used the name of the item. And MoI, it wasn't in my first post, just in one of the ones close to when I got back.

If I dropped a vote early-game, it woudn't have shown me voting for two. It's invisible, I believe. And I didn't put one on because I didn't want anyone to put at L-1.

Saying my play has been bad does not mean I don't stand by my attacks. It was bad of me to get myself into this situation.

In response to MoI on my theorizing of the roleblocking thing... As someone said somewhere, town shouldn't refrain from what they are thinking because they are town and have nothing to hide. I posted something I was thinking about.
Also, what would scum have gained by posting that? Leverage? No, nothing.

Self-meta? YOU wanted to know what I played like. Take the time and look at my games yourself instead of laughing them off.

[SleepyKrew]

Can you point out your papercrumb for me please? Sorry if you've already done this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Acknowledging post. Can't post in detail right now got a few things going on at the house. back later.

Still waiting on this.

--

My breadcrumb was 100x more obvious than SK's, because it used the name of the item. And MoI, it wasn't in my first post, just in one of the ones close to when I got back.

Then point it out. And explain, as I have asked, why you didn’t react to Sleepy’s rather blatant crumbs yourself?

Also, what would scum have gained by posting that? Leverage? No, nothing.

Town doesn’t get anything out of said posting.

Pointless speculation as opposed to scum-hunting is a way for scum to derail the dayplay of Town. That’s one (relatively minimal since it can be picked up on) gain

Self-meta? YOU wanted to know what I played like. Take the time and look at my games yourself instead of laughing them off.

No, I didn’t want to know what ‘you played like’. I wanted to know your level of experience. Those are vastly different things.

Before I launch into a bigger post...
I just noticed something. Scum doublevoters are less likely to be put into the setup. Why? Scum already get two votes at night. The whole doublevoting thing would be way less powerful for scum.

I know that's weak, but I believe it means something.

How do you have any idea about the extent of the set-up which would give you a good idea that a double-voter scum is less likely? As Town you should only know your own role at this stage.

The whole “scum already doublevote at Night” is MOD Wifom assuming the Mod didn’t put in the role just so this same argument can be made.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I dropped a vote early-game, it woudn't have shown me voting for two. It's invisible, I believe. And I didn't put one on because I didn't want anyone to put at L-1.

1. Oh, so its Invisible? So the only way you can 'prove' your ability is to vote someone at L-2 to hammer them as Executioner?
2. You could have dropped a vote on yourself (who had no votes at that juncture) so your L-1 explanation doesn't wash.

I need to read the first game to see if this fits with the Leader information from there.

[jasonT1981]

Sorry, spent last night, and today puking my guts up. fucking food posioning!

Scum

Cod
Captain Cor (don't like the appeals of fear and emotion)
Quilford (Still back and forth on this, but still giving me a bad feeling)

Town

MOI - Seems to be gen scum hunting and seems ovb town
Vezo - While at the start I was unsure of Vezo, he is town IMO
FatlikePig - seems gen like he wants to catch scum.
Having Fitz - seems town but needs more content
ICE - Making good posts and good points.
Implosion - making good detailed posts and seems town to me
Zang - as above with Implosion I am feeling the same about Zang

Unsure

Chaos Omega - Needs to post more, seems town when he posts but cant really get a read on 5 posts especially with most being one or two lines
Sleepy - Town early on but not liking his later play especially the comments about Fitz and 'last night'

Again, sorry I feel like crap today, will try to get back on later tonight.

[mallowgeno]

Finding replacement for ChaosOmega

Prodding Fatlike