New York 138: OxyMoron Mafia :: Game Over!

[Kcdaspot]

SP is town.

[mastin2]

Nah. They wish. I wish. But nope!

[Kcdaspot]

i kinda see it but it's a null tell.

Vote oversoul plz kaythx

[Secret Project]

They wish.

Actually I'd rather be scum.

[Secret Project]

pretend that's purple

[Secret Project]

why can't we be Soben?

'Cause you asked.

That's why.

ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT'S NOT A JOKE

[Kcdaspot]

They wish.

Actually I'd rather be scum.

Any questions?

[LordChronos]

What is your opinion on my posts since then? There have been several and you've tunneled a single post of mine in the last like 3 or 4 posts from you that I've noticed. Do me a favor: Rearrange this list of names in a random order (I've arranged them in numerical order according to the OP). Don't think about it, just do it.

kcdaspot
mastin
Bomberman
David Xanatos
White_Teaz
lewarcher
redFF

Also, tell me what exactly you feel is scummy about that post. Why are you seeing it as "rolefishing" instead of scumhunting? And tell me specifically what is scummy about rolefishing?

Nobody answer for him.

Bomberman
mastin
David Xanatos
White_Teaz
redFF
kcdaspot
lewarcher

And the point of that was what, precisely?

As to what I think of your posts since the major rolefishing one, let's see. The next 4 are all about the rolefishing still. Then we get to your big wall post where you call me scummy for agreeing that you were rolefishing and trying to push that. Cause I'm totally just sitting here sheeping everyone else. Hmm. What's wrong with this picture? Next you start arguing with mastin about him calling you scum for your confirm post. Gotta agree with you on that one. Finally, your heads had a disagreement about whether Oversoul's self vote was town motivated or scum motivated.

Yeah, not seeing any bastion of townieness posts there that would convince me to overlook the rolefishing.

Moving on to why it was rolefishing. Let's see, this is a pretty hard question. Maybe the answer is that you were specifically inquiring about whether his joke-claim comment meant he was not a VT? That is fishing for information about his role, hence, rolefishing! Rolefishing is scummy because the team that benefits most from knowing (to use this situation) whether someone is or is not a VT is the scum. They get to knock said player down on their list of players to kill to hit PRs.

@kcdaspot

Why, precisely, is SP town?

[Secret Project]

Scumhunting is rolefishing. Also Bomberman and kcda are most likely scum on that list if Chronos is scum. The point of the question wasn't whether or not my future posts made what you saw as rolefishing in my post seem less scummy. The point was do my posts after that make you feel confident about the consistency of your read, and if so then how are some of the other ones scummy?

[LordChronos]

Actually, that's a fallacy. While scumhunting may be rolefishing, not all rolefishing is scumhunting. Yours falls in to the latter category. In response to your question, posting something really scummy then a bunch of null posts doesn't usually make me feel less confident in my read. I disagree that I'm just sheeping, but that's not really a scum tell from you, I don't think. Unless it was an OMGUS attack brought on by my beginning to push you. Let me check that and get back to you in the morning tomorrow or maybe the afternoon depending on whether I get to it before I leave for my camp.

You also didn't say what the point of asking me to randomly order the list was. Please do.

[Secret Project]

Actually, that's a fallacy. While scumhunting may be rolefishing, not all rolefishing is scumhunting. Yours falls in to the latter category. In response to your question, posting something really scummy then a bunch of null posts doesn't usually make me feel less confident in my read. I disagree that I'm just sheeping, but that's not really a scum tell from you, I don't think. Unless it was an OMGUS attack brought on by my beginning to push you. Let me check that and get back to you in the morning tomorrow or maybe the afternoon depending on whether I get to it before I leave for my camp.

You also didn't say what the point of asking me to randomly order the list was. Please do.

Sure not all rolefishing is scumhunting, but why do you think I was looking for, say, a town PR, instead of mafia or some third party?

The list. If you flip scum it will be a wealth of information. Scum always stress over the placement of buddies in a list. I was specifically looking for where you put Bomberman, he was the only name on the list I cared about, but you gave kcda the terribad second to last spot and mastin the equally terribad second spot. My read on kcda is more scumlean than my read on mastin which is why the former sticks out more, plus Bomberman is first, which implies you realized that the list was important and would attempt to WIFOM by placing your partners in places we wouldn't expect to find them (first or last) because you expect us to look in the middle of the list for them. It's possible this only makes sense to me.

[Foolish Fool]

Actually, Purple, scum don't always stress over the placement of buddies on a list. I actively try to get my scumbuddies lynched as early as possible...it makes me feel like an SK...

Cut out the personal insults, guys. The game's supposed to be fun: nobody's an idiot or schizoprenic or anything of the like. Either shut up or get out. I've got no problem with treating anybody here like a newbie and putting them in time out. ~.~ Bomberman, I recognise you email address and know you're an alt. If it's anybody who's been banned, do yourself a favor.

Someone asked what someone elses role was earlier in the game...if that's scumhunting, did you honestly expect them to reply with an 'Im scum' response.

More in a bit.

[Secret Project]

Bomberman is a failwagon
UNVOTE: OversoulVOTE: Secret Project
Let's do this.

When you get a case other than "he rolefished" (read: scumhunted) then sure.

It's really surprising the amount of you who are just going "Oh yeah SP's scummy" with literally no reason other than "he rolefished". Look at the supposed "rolefish" a sec.

VT...

Stating your reads on each person and joke claiming are completely different things, i don't see the connection

1. Joke claiming? So you're NOT a VT?
2. I think the point was that claiming gives scum more useful NK information than stating reads.

First off, "You're NOT a VT" is not rolefishing. We never said "Oh hey what are you then". I think it's perfectly valid to ask whether someone was really claiming or not. I mean, a misunderstanding like a joke claiming could change stuff drastically later in the game. The second point isn't even rolefishing. This case is pathetic.

Oh, Oversoul is scummy, kcdaspot is scummy, Xerax is town, Empking is TOWN. Universal fact.

Speaking of which Xerax needs to post more. As do the people who have yet to confirm.

[David Xanatos]

I really don't like this "rolefishing" accusation. It's really not always a bad thing to share information.. for example, a Vig claiming means the Town can discuss shot placement, and an unclaimed Doc can cover him at night. A claimed Cop means that people can be confirmed as non-Scum (Not Town, there's always the possibility of third parties, and I suppose GFs too, but those are somewhat rarer.)

I honestly haven't seen much warranting such a heavy response against SP..

[Foolish Fool]

Scumhunting is rolefishing.

I guess it can be, but, as Chronos said, not all rolefishing is scumhunting. And even when it is, it's one of the worst and least efficient ways of scumhunting, a lot of the time the information garnered from it is more useful to anti-town players than it is to everyone else.

Sure not all rolefishing is scumhunting, but why do you think I was looking for, say, a town PR, instead of mafia or some third party?

The point was that you were trying to find out if he was VT or not.

Lets say you did find out this information, lets see who gains the most out of it:

a) You find out he's probably a VT

Town Gains: One player who it's probably best to avoid lynching
Scum Gains: One player it's probably not worth NKing
Net Gains: About a dead heat in usefulness between the two factions.

b) You find out he's probably not a VT

Town Gains: You can probably eliminate one role from a list of roles he could possibly be. He could still be Mafia, SK, or any Power Role.
Scum Gains: If he's scum, they knew that anyway, but if he's town, then he's probably a power role, and probably very much worth killing. Simply because of the number of town compared to scum, it's more likely it's the second, hence making it reasonably likely that we would lose a powerful utility to help us win the game quite soon.
Net Gains: Scum definitely find this info more useful.

First off, "You're NOT a VT" is not rolefishing. We never said "Oh hey what are you then". I think it's perfectly valid to ask whether someone was really claiming or not. I mean, a misunderstanding like a joke claiming could change stuff drastically later in the game. The second point isn't even rolefishing. This case is pathetic.

The problem was that "You're NOT a VT" was phrased like a statement, not a question.

I really don't like this "rolefishing" accusation. It's really not always a bad thing to share information.. for example, a Vig claiming means the Town can discuss shot placement, and an unclaimed Doc can cover him at night. A claimed Cop means that people can be confirmed as non-Scum (Not Town, there's always the possibility of third parties, and I suppose GFs too, but those are somewhat rarer.)

I honestly haven't seen much warranting such a heavy response against SP..

That makes an awful lot of assumptions about other roles, for example, there even being a Doc in the game, or at least one without further implications, such as a Jailkeeper. Sharing info like roles, especially this early in the game, is almost never a good idea because we don't yet have the information required to utilise such things properly.

[LordChronos]

Bomberman is a failwagon
UNVOTE: OversoulVOTE: Secret Project
Let's do this.

When you get a case other than "he rolefished" (read: scumhunted) then sure.

It's really surprising the amount of you who are just going "Oh yeah SP's scummy" with literally no reason other than "he rolefished". Look at the supposed "rolefish" a sec.

VT...

Stating your reads on each person and joke claiming are completely different things, i don't see the connection

1. Joke claiming? So you're NOT a VT?
2. I think the point was that claiming gives scum more useful NK information than stating reads.

First off, "You're NOT a VT" is not rolefishing. We never said "Oh hey what are you then". I think it's perfectly valid to ask whether someone was really claiming or not. I mean, a misunderstanding like a joke claiming could change stuff drastically later in the game. The second point isn't even rolefishing. This case is pathetic.

Oh, Oversoul is scummy, kcdaspot is scummy, Xerax is town, Empking is TOWN. Universal fact.

Speaking of which Xerax needs to post more. As do the people who have yet to confirm.

There's a difference between asking whether he was joke claiming by saying something like, "So you were joke claiming, right?" and asking whether he is or is not a VT. One of them is rolefishing. You did the one that is rolefishing. It doesn't matter if you didn't ask what exact role he has.

[Kcdaspot]

Bomberman is a failwagon
UNVOTE: OversoulVOTE: Secret Project
Let's do this.

When you get a case other than "he rolefished" (read: scumhunted) then sure.

It's really surprising the amount of you who are just going "Oh yeah SP's scummy" with literally no reason other than "he rolefished". Look at the supposed "rolefish" a sec.

VT...

Stating your reads on each person and joke claiming are completely different things, i don't see the connection

1. Joke claiming? So you're NOT a VT?
2. I think the point was that claiming gives scum more useful NK information than stating reads.

First off, "You're NOT a VT" is not rolefishing. We never said "Oh hey what are you then". I think it's perfectly valid to ask whether someone was really claiming or not. I mean, a misunderstanding like a joke claiming could change stuff drastically later in the game. The second point isn't even rolefishing. This case is pathetic.

Oh, Oversoul is scummy, kcdaspot is scummy, Xerax is town, Empking is TOWN. Universal fact.

Speaking of which Xerax needs to post more. As do the people who have yet to confirm.

..... i also think empking is town....

why am i scummy?

[Kcdaspot]

@kcdaspot

Why, precisely, is SP town?

do you see scum being that ballsy?

[Secret Project]

kcda, your earlier arguments with OverSoul weren't exactly town-like, I thought.

@David: Heh, I'm known elsewhere for going into ALL CAPS mode when people suspect me stupidly, so this is quite tame. =P

When's the deadline, btw? Or did we get one?

[Vifam]

The Foolish Vote Count

Oversoul

(4): Kcdaspot, mastin2, Bomberman, redFF

Secret Project

(2): Lord Chronos, Johhog

Bomberman

(2): Oversoul, Vifam

David Xanatos

(1): Empking

Mastin2

(1): David Xanatos

Not Voting: Estyn, Fool_Hardy, Foolish Fool, LTP Mafia, Secret Project, Xeras
Not Posted Yet: donkwich, MintKitten, whiTE_Teaz
Being Replaced: lewarcher82

Who else thinks OS wagon has scum on it?

[Johhog]

I do, most of my scumreads are on it.

[Secret Project]

vote: Bomberman

[Foolish Fool]

The Foolish Vote Count

Oversoul

(4): Kcdaspot, mastin2, Bomberman, redFF

Secret Project

(2): Lord Chronos, Johhog

Bomberman

(2): Oversoul, Vifam

David Xanatos

(1): Empking

Mastin2

(1): David Xanatos

Not Voting: Estyn, Fool_Hardy, Foolish Fool, LTP Mafia, Secret Project, Xeras
Not Posted Yet: donkwich, MintKitten, whiTE_Teaz
Being Replaced: lewarcher82

Who else thinks OS wagon has scum on it?

To be honest, I'd agree with that. The ones I've got my eye on most are Kcda for blowing it all out of proportion, and slightly on redFF for not much activity (much less activity that wasn't filler), and then jumping onto a convenient bandwagon.

[Vifam]

The Foolish Vote Count

Oversoul

(4): Kcdaspot, mastin2, Bomberman, redFF

Secret Project

(2): Lord Chronos, Johhog

Bomberman

(2): Oversoul, Vifam

David Xanatos

(1): Empking

Mastin2

(1): David Xanatos

Not Voting: Estyn, Fool_Hardy, Foolish Fool, LTP Mafia, Secret Project, Xeras
Not Posted Yet: donkwich, MintKitten, whiTE_Teaz
Being Replaced: lewarcher82

Who else thinks OS wagon has scum on it?

To be honest, I'd agree with that. The ones I've got my eye on most are Kcda for blowing it all out of proportion, and slightly on redFF for not much activity (much less activity that wasn't filler), and then jumping onto a convenient bandwagon.

RedFF is reading town for me, mostly for #523.

kcd is likely a townie who just can't get their logic straight.

Mastin is being Mastin, I could see Mastinscum but I don't feel the need to pursue it.

Bomberman is easily the scummiest on that wagon.

[Johhog]

I have scumreads on RedFF and kcdaspot, null leaning scum on Bomberman and town on Mastin.