Mini 1217 - Campaign Mafia (Game Over!)

[Quilford]

Also we can't actually force someone to nominate themselves.

no, but they'd be obvscum/conf. scum if they refuse

So what? They'd just never nominate themselves/be nominated.

[Johhog]

But we don't want to nominate a town. Much more fail-proof to nominate a scummy person.

And I don't agree with your last rebuttal at all. My point still stands.

[Johhog]

Also we can't actually force someone to nominate themselves.

no, but they'd be obvscum/conf. scum if they refuse

So what? They'd just never nominate themselves/be nominated.

How good for town! Then we have a confirmed scum running around in endgame.

[Quilford]

And I don't agree with your last rebuttal at all. My point still stands.

Explain why.

How many times do I have to say this?

[Quilford]

Also we can't actually force someone to nominate themselves.

no, but they'd be obvscum/conf. scum if they refuse

So what? They'd just never nominate themselves/be nominated.

How good for town! Then we have a confirmed scum running around in endgame.

Actually I just realised that all scum have to be nominated at some point.

[Johhog]

But what am I supposed to respond to? In your last rebuttal you basically discarded all my explanations on my reads. How productive is it to discard everything back?

[Quilford]

No I didn't; I reasoned why the explanations were invalid. You can now do 1 of 2 things:
1) Explain why my reasoning is invalid
2) Write a new set of reads with proper explanations behind them

[Johhog]

hiplop - Probably town, he is sticking to his town meta.

Meta

Hypocrisy.

The fact that you don't elaborate on what meta and how means it is not hypocrisy?

He is playing to his own town meta, what do you want me to say? You're discarding of this read is hypocrisy because you're using meta on Twistedspoon

Lurconis - Nullish scum. I suggest you stop the lurcing.

Activity levels

So?

You list no reason apart from lurking for listing this guy as 'nullish scum'.

And his few posts is a little scummish.

Packbat - I'm a little afraid of this guy. Null, but he could easily be scum.

None specified, 'a little afraid'. Classic scum null read.

So?

You list no reasoning.

Because I don't have any. He seems... shady... in a way that can be both townish and scummy.

Pomegranate - The only one who actually gave reasoning for voting Maruchan. Nullish town.

Blatant lies designed to incense.

Not lies.

Everyone for Maruchan gave reasoning. Show me otherwise.

Oh no they didn't. OH GOD HE NOMINATED HIMSELF HE IS SCUM isn't reasoning.

Quilford - Very likely scum per my above points.

which have been rebutted and are contradictory

Nope.

Well then rebut my rebuttal.

Wait what rebuttal?

Shadow Dancer - Obvscum. Tunneling and being way too aggressive.

Hypocrisy, extreme subjectivity, hyperbole - probably a bus?

Lulz.

Oh god you didn't even answer to this one.

Tovarish - Need to see more posts from this guy. Null.

Activity levels

So?

You list one person as null-scum for lurking but you only list this guy as null?

Yeah? His only post is giving me more townvibes than Lurconis posts.

Twistedspoon - Very town, not obvtown but very close. Good points and plays with reason.

Buddying, vagueness.

Ah, I'm scum because I have a townread on your scumread. I see.

When did I ever say that?

You didn't, but I can see what you really mean.

---

You've finally convinced me that you're scum! Congratulations!

Happy? The only thing I can answer to this, but what did you expect?

[Johhog]

Oh golly, it's a grammar fail. Whatever.

[Quilford]

hiplop - Probably town, he is sticking to his town meta.

Meta

Hypocrisy.

The fact that you don't elaborate on what meta and how means it is not hypocrisy?

He is playing to his own town meta, what do you want me to say? You're discarding of this read is hypocrisy because you're using meta on Twistedspoon

I noted specific meta to compare TS' play with. Can you?

Lurconis - Nullish scum. I suggest you stop the lurcing.

Activity levels

So?

You list no reason apart from lurking for listing this guy as 'nullish scum'.

And his few posts is a little scummish.

why?

Packbat - I'm a little afraid of this guy. Null, but he could easily be scum.

None specified, 'a little afraid'. Classic scum null read.

So?

You list no reasoning.

Because I don't have any. He seems... shady... in a way that can be both townish and scummy.

What makes him shady?

Pomegranate - The only one who actually gave reasoning for voting Maruchan. Nullish town.

Blatant lies designed to incense.

Not lies.

Everyone for Maruchan gave reasoning. Show me otherwise.

Oh no they didn't. OH GOD HE NOMINATED HIMSELF HE IS SCUM isn't reasoning.

1) Yes it is. 2) List the reasoning Pom gave and then show how no-one else gave it

Quilford - Very likely scum per my above points.

which have been rebutted and are contradictory

Nope.

Well then rebut my rebuttal.

Wait what rebuttal?

you wrote like a whole paragraph which I rebutted. I'll quote it

Shadow Dancer - Obvscum. Tunneling and being way too aggressive.

Hypocrisy, extreme subjectivity, hyperbole - probably a bus?

Lulz.

Oh god you didn't even answer to this one.

Tovarish - Need to see more posts from this guy. Null.

Activity levels

So?

You list one person as null-scum for lurking but you only list this guy as null?

Yeah? His only post is giving me more townvibes than Lurconis posts.

And why is it doing that? And if it is, why not put him at null-town?

Twistedspoon - Very town, not obvtown but very close. Good points and plays with reason.

Buddying, vagueness.

Ah, I'm scum because I have a townread on your scumread. I see.

When did I ever say that?

You didn't, but I can see what you really mean.

What?


---

You've finally convinced me that you're scum! Congratulations!

Happy? The only thing I can answer to this, but what did you expect?

[Quilford]

Don't replace out Twisted. Don't let scum like Quilford destroy your game.

Explain, in your own words, why you think I'm scum.

I'm almost certain that at least one of Johhog and Twisted is scum.

Aha! You're flip-flopping a lot here Quilford. First I was scum, then I was town and now I'm scum again? Please decide.

The first change was based on the flip.

The second hasn't even happened yet. It just makes sense for one of you to be scum.

Your scum because you elected someone who didn't even post,

So did everyone else on the bandwagon, including Twisted. It's not even remotely relevant either?

tunneling on Maruchan

Do you take issues with the reasons for why I voted Maruchan? It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

refusing to take responsibility for the Timeater election

Since when?

calling yourself confirmed town when you are waaaay more scum than town

Your personal reads are not relevant to the reasons why I consider myself confirmed town. I'm pretty sure I should be mod-confirmed, even, if not completely.

intentionally refusing to explain your scumreads

At the time I posted my reads I was on public transport heading to school. It shouldn't be surprising that I had no time to elaborate.

being hypocritical.

Did you just copy the point that TS made that I rebutted?

Of course that's not my real reasons

What?

[Johhog]

hiplop - Probably town, he is sticking to his town meta.

Meta

Hypocrisy.

The fact that you don't elaborate on what meta and how means it is not hypocrisy?

He is playing to his own town meta, what do you want me to say? You're discarding of this read is hypocrisy because you're using meta on Twistedspoon

I noted specific meta to compare TS' play with. Can you?

Try to check out Newbie 1112 for example.

Lurconis - Nullish scum. I suggest you stop the lurcing.

Activity levels

So?

You list no reason apart from lurking for listing this guy as 'nullish scum'.

And his few posts is a little scummish.

why?

Gut.

Packbat - I'm a little afraid of this guy. Null, but he could easily be scum.

None specified, 'a little afraid'. Classic scum null read.

So?

You list no reasoning.

Because I don't have any. He seems... shady... in a way that can be both townish and scummy.

What makes him shady?

Gut, Twistedspoon said something about this being his scum meta also.

Pomegranate - The only one who actually gave reasoning for voting Maruchan. Nullish town.

Blatant lies designed to incense.

Not lies.

Everyone for Maruchan gave reasoning. Show me otherwise.

Oh no they didn't. OH GOD HE NOMINATED HIMSELF HE IS SCUM isn't reasoning.

1) Yes it is. 2) List the reasoning Pom gave and then show how no-one else gave it

1. Oh no it isn't. 2. OK, reasoning was the wrong word. Nah, Pomegranate wanted Maruchan to explain himself, she tried to force content out of him, she asked question to others, in short she acted pro-town.

Quilford - Very likely scum per my above points.

which have been rebutted and are contradictory

Nope.

Well then rebut my rebuttal.

Wait what rebuttal?

you wrote like a whole paragraph which I rebutted. I'll quote it

Will answer it after this post.

Shadow Dancer - Obvscum. Tunneling and being way too aggressive.

Hypocrisy, extreme subjectivity, hyperbole - probably a bus?

Lulz.

Oh god you didn't even answer to this one.

Oh god you still didn't give an answer to this one. Please do.

Tovarish - Need to see more posts from this guy. Null.

Activity levels

So?

You list one person as null-scum for lurking but you only list this guy as null?

Yeah? His only post is giving me more townvibes than Lurconis posts.

And why is it doing that? And if it is, why not put him at null-town?

Gut, and with only one post I can't put him as null-town.

Twistedspoon - Very town, not obvtown but very close. Good points and plays with reason.

Buddying, vagueness.

Ah, I'm scum because I have a townread on your scumread. I see.

When did I ever say that?

You didn't, but I can see what you really mean.

What?

Yes.

[Lurconis]

Ok so im at work, so this will be quick.

Johog and quill
after this long back and forth im thinking this may be town v town.

Quill would you be onboa rd d with sd nom? Unless I missed it I don't think you weighed in on him yet.

Also would like to know why hiplop and tova arent around more.

Twisted has now become my strongest town read as he seems to be the only one using reason as opposed to gut.

If there is anything specific yall want my opinion on let me know and I will answer at lunch or after work

[Johhog]

Don't replace out Twisted. Don't let scum like Quilford destroy your game.

Explain, in your own words, why you think I'm scum.

I'm almost certain that at least one of Johhog and Twisted is scum.

Aha! You're flip-flopping a lot here Quilford. First I was scum, then I was town and now I'm scum again? Please decide.

The first change was based on the flip.

The second hasn't even happened yet. It just makes sense for one of you to be scum.

Yet, indeed. Seems like you had decided you would change your read on me.

Your scum because you elected someone who didn't even post,

So did everyone else on the bandwagon, including Twisted. It's not even remotely relevant either?

How is it not? It's only one of the reasons too.

tunneling on Maruchan

Do you take issues with the reasons for why I voted Maruchan? It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.

Argh you must let Timeater say something, acknowledge the possibility that Timeater is scum, but you didn't.

refusing to take responsibility for the Timeater election

Since when?

In one post you said something like "Maruchan's fault, he was so scummy" or something along those lines. Don't know exactly what post.

calling yourself confirmed town when you are waaaay more scum than town

Your personal reads are not relevant to the reasons why I consider myself confirmed town. I'm pretty sure I should be mod-confirmed, even, if not completely.

LOLNO. No chance you are confirmed.

intentionally refusing to explain your scumreads

At the time I posted my reads I was on public transport heading to school. It shouldn't be surprising that I had no time to elaborate.

Fair.

being hypocritical.

Did you just copy the point that TS made that I rebutted?

Er, so I can't agree with someone now? Interesting.

Of course that's not my real reasons

What?

Oh, I just try to find some reasons that others may find scummy to convince them. Personally I only use my gut.

[Twistedspoon]

after this long back and forth im thinking this may be town v town.

yah, exactly what I've been trying to say

anyawys, we need DS. badly

[Johhog]

after this long back and forth im thinking this may be town v town.

yah, exactly what I've been trying to say

anyawys, we need

DS

. badly

Do you mean Shadow Dancer or that you are desperate to play Mario Kart quickly?

[Packbat]

Wow, you wonder if Johhog is waiting on his Lurconis reasoning until:

PEdit: I'll explain my reasoning on Lurconis in a bit - don't change the subject.

how about now? I don't want you to forget :/

...a townie gets around to posting something for him to crib from?

(Yes, my read on Johhog has flipped to scum.)

Now, my Lurc (what an appropriate nick!) story starts at #48

Is there any opposition to me nominating myself tomorrow, considering I should be basically confirmed town?

PEdit: Doesn't mean you were refreshing the wiki every 40 minutes?

If he flips scum no problem if he flips town, all of us who quick voted him, myself included, are scum sus and we should discuss it I feel. That is just my gut reaction anyway.

This is the first point where I began to feel oddly about Lurconis - in part because this feels like laying the groundwork for the unfavorable flip. He follows it up with #86:

If you hadn't read your PM yet and therefore didn't know whether you were town or not, why were you volunteering/cutting off discussion in order to help the town?

I already answered this, I had good reasons for myself why it was good for town or for scum. If I had had to defend myself to scum in a QT, I would have sued the reason you're all using against me. it hampered town communication.

This is sort of a WIFOM situation you say you were prepared to defend yourself as scum or town but since your town your using your town defense. How do we know you didn't already defend yourself in the scum QT?


To be fair
Maybe you really hadn't checked your role pm I admit it is possible. It just still doesn't sit right.

...where he is blatantly fence-sitting - once again, trying to defend himself against the inevitable townflip.

There's other stuff to mention in his feed, but his Maruchan/Timeater behavior will do.

---

Nah, we need a obvtown or a obvscum, and I'm afraid most won't agree that you're obvtown Twisted. Quilford is one candidate we could nominate as obvscum, but I would prefer Shadow or something along that line tbh.

I find this hilarious, given that Quilford is my obvtown candidate and Twistedspoon is my obvscum candidate.

I'd be fine with nominating myself.

If we don't have a better candidate at deadline, that's all right with me; right now I'd rather have Twistedspoon volunteer - in fact, a scumflip from him captures Johhog and Lurconis as well.

@crazy: were scum role Pms sent out at the same time as town Pms, and would we be able to use role PM time to deduce alignments?

I'm declining to answer this.

You can't send simultaneous PMs - there's a posting rate restriction. You didn't know this, TS?

nomination votes

ShadowDancer - 2 (Twistedspoon, Johhog)
Quilford - 1 (Quilford)
Twistedspoon - 1 (Packbat)

[Johhog]

You guys seriously don't think that a SD nomination would be good? Oh my.

[Packbat]

All three of my scum suspects have expressed suspicion of a guy who posted three times in the game so far based solely (so far as I can tell) on his third post.

No, I don't want Shadow Dancer nominated. Barring townflips from at least one of you (and probably more), Shadow Dancer is on my

town

list,

just because

y'all are so eager to nom him.

[Johhog]

What is your reasons for suspecting me Packbat?

[Packbat]

What is your reasons for suspecting me Packbat?

*headdesk*

I suddenly feel like a complete idiot. People, look at Johhog's ISO and check out this sweetness:

Oh I just realised - everyone is hating Maruchan, so he is pretty likely bussed scum.

No hammer yet though.

Also, Quilford, why? Because I don't agree with you?

Fuck it's a hammer. I bet Timeater was scum. Couldn't we at least have waited for him to say something?!

This day was terribad.

I haven't even gotten as far as the stuff that actually convinced me and, oh, look! He's scummy.

(And no, "I changed my mind because of the quickhammer" doesn't count as an excuse

unless

you think that scum quickhammered - and Twistedspoon was a town read for you. #178.)

If you need more from me, I'll come back and post more, but I think that ought to be convincing all by itself.

[Johhog]

And your point is... ?

[Packbat]

And your point is... ?

Why did you change your mind between #139 and #145?

[Johhog]

I didn't. I was reading the game (like 8 pages while I was asleep wtf), I was tired and I wasn't sure on what to think.

But having that said, I didn't change my mind. I stated two possibilities (but I thought that Maruchantown was slightly more likely).

[Johhog]

Actually, I change my nomination of SD to a nomination of myself.

Tbh a townflip on me could be game deciding.