Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER


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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:21 am

Post by jasonT1981 »

Scumhunter wrote:Scum play = cold, calculated, and with a clear intent and expectation for success.

My point still stands that I wouldn't fake a guilty on MoI here as scum. I did it because I thought it was literally the only thing I could do to stop MoI from raping the town here as scum. That fear was legitimate. I am competitive. I made a rash decision that I now regret.


Top post - Town also have a clear, caculated intent and expectation for sucess.

Bottom post - What is pro-town about faking a guilty on someone? if MOI was to flip town, you would then be screwed too, right? no town motives at all.
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:29 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Scumhunter wrote:Scum play = cold, calculated, and with a clear intent and expectation for success.

My point still stands that I wouldn't fake a guilty on MoI here as scum. I did it because I thought it was literally the only thing I could do to stop MoI from raping the town here as scum. That fear was legitimate. I am competitive. I made a rash decision that I now regret.


This is a bad assertion. Scum play comes in all forms. I'd direct you to the recently completed POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA where Reck faked a guilty Day 1 that resulted in a quicklynch on Town Fate. People excused it as "Scum would never do that" and he cruised to endgame and a perfect win as Scum.

I'm not relying on your "I wouldn't do that as scum" self-meta in the least. Town who plays with an shred of common sense has no reason to do so. Scum has plenty of possible motivation as I've pointed out.
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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:46 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

K so just realized that Quil dies tonight no matter what.
Jason, I was quoting it because of the situation that has arisen.
And MoI, I think CC mentioned important US docs once. We just called them papers after that.
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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:48 am

Post by Scumhunter »

@Jason, sure, but scum are usually more careful not to make waves or to do something stupid and rash. I think we'd all agree regardless of my alignment, my actions weren't exactly "careful".

@MoI, I'm not saying you have to believe me. I wouldn't believe most people appealing to me in this situation. What I will say is I'm not sure you are aware of truly how much influence you have in this game. That influence is scary. Scary enough to force a town into doing something stupid when they think you are scum or even leaning-scum.
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:51 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

SleepyKrew wrote:And MoI, I think CC mentioned important US docs once. We just called them papers after that.


Ok, if you haven't found it before I get back from V/LA I'll try to hunt it down. Because the appearance of that phrase in thread undercuts any cred Quilford gets from claiming the specific name.
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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:56 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

Captain Corporal wrote:The item is actually a piece of paper (an important US document), so technically you're right.

Also just realized he crumbed this in the same post he crumbed Leader.
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:10 am

Post by Scumhunter »

@Jason, fake-claiming is not pro-town. I'm not defending my actions as being pro-town. It's a reminder to myself of why fake-claiming is terrible like 99% of the time. You say "no town motives", well my motive was to get the executioner power to execute MoI or at the very least be able to have the game in my hands and make a strong value judgment on his alignment with the decision in my hands. I felt it was worth the risk, but meh, I'm seeing the downside of it all pretty badly 1st hand right about now aren't I. I'm not going to just give up trying though. I know I'm town and as long as there is one townie willing to listen I will keep trying to help you guys make the right decision on me up until my last breath. That's how much I'm dedicated to this game. To winning. To town figuring me out and going after scum instead. The ball is in your court. I'm willing to explain myself, my intent, and my actions in-depth here, just keep asking ?s I'll be here doing my best to answer away til the end of time (or more realistically til the end of this phase (and tomorrow if I'm lucky or town is good))
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:11 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

Where is teh mallow?
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:46 am

Post by Cosca »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
No, I don’t. I’ve done plenty of explaining why your actions are scummy. Which you yourself ignore.


Throughout our whole debate you have simply taken things that we have done and labeled them as "scumtastic" without an explanation. Sometimes, you even did the same things yourself.

That's not explaining; that's accusing in an unfounded way. And since the attacks have started after we have expressed light suspicions of you and intensified as our suspicions grew stronger, we all know why you showed this behavior.


No, it’s a clarification. We can go round and round like this all day … stating things that you can’t back up doesn’t make them true. I typed up my response to Scumhunter's fake-claim in two minutes as that time of night I don't have the ability to make detailed posts. I don't particularly care whether you believe me since your play is pretty much scum-tunneling.


Here are the quotes again so everybody can see how MoI is lying:

ISO #39:
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
ATTENTION EVERYONE
- It is him or me today. Not other Executioner votes are going to be acceptable at this juncture.


ISO #41:
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Ok, perhaps in my quick reply last night before bed I didn’t phrase it as clearly as I should have.

No other votes for WHO to be executed are acceptable.



So you’ve basically filtered everything through a perspective of “MoI is scum to construct this”. Noted.


In the scum-MoI scenario, yes, because that scenario is based on you being scum. In the town-MoI scenario, no.


I’m really curious which of these you’d like to debate.

As to your ‘scum-perspective’ I’ve bolded the part that is shows you aren’t being objective. Every bit of it MUST be premised on the fact that I am scum. That bolded argument can be applied to anyone who had a preference between the two 'cop' results (one of which was obviously fake), including yourself


On one hand, if you are town then the assumptions that you have to make to see Scumhunter as scum can't be made into much of a list. However in order to take Quilford as scum (in a way that would make you prefer his execution over Scumhunter) you have to make many, many more assumptions. It isn't that prefering Quilford over Scumhunter is scummy for everyone, just you, since town-MoI is confirmed town to himself.

Cosca wrote:
Sometimes, Quilford is the only acceptable execution
; sometimes, Quilford is preferred, sometimes, you'd only be willing to go along with his execution if more players agree. You even managed to contradict yourself in one post.


The bolded is a pure, unadulterated lie.

Please directly quote the post where I say Quilford is the ONLY acceptable execution. Do it. You can’t. I never use that phrase. Nice attempt to infer a contradiction that doesn’t exist.


Again, the quote, from ISO #41:
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
I support Zang for Day Executioner to kill Quilford. If Quilford flips scum we elect him again and he executes fake-claiming Scumhunter.


As we also mentioned, you contradicted yourself in the same post.
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:48 am

Post by SleepyKrew »

COSCA
SHUT
THE
FUCK
UP
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:23 am

Post by Scumhunter »

Yo Cosca, I'm not the cop.
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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:29 am

Post by Quilford »

I strongly recommend I am at least executed tonight so I can pass these papers on.

I have no problem with that whatsoever, even if I'm not sure why claiming Miller in response to a cop investigation is bad when I have produced evidence as to why I did it and yet regardless,
regardless
people are still demanding my execution.

If the cop were anyone who didn't have a scum read on me - which was the majority of the players - then this would never happen and I could live out my Miller claim without mass uproar.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:33 am

Post by Cosca »

Scumhunter wrote:Yo Cosca, I'm not the cop.


We actually believe you here, and we always thought you're not a cop.

We just don't believe you're town.
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:34 am

Post by Medicated Lain »

15 pages into, plus these most recent pages since I posted... Well this sure is interesting so far. Firstly, how long do we have to figure out day 2? I'm new to this type of mafia, but it sure seems intriguing. CC who played before me seemed to have a completely different method of madness than I would have chosen.

SK, why am I giving the document to you? I suspect it's written somewhere along the way, but there's still nearly 20 pages before I am caught up, and I will be a bit more busy until about Monday. Can I get confirmation from at least one more player, preferably Zang or Jason... since they are currently highest on my trust list at the moment. Really anyone will do though. Anyways, confirmation that this is a good idea? Maybe a quick explanation in case I don't have time to catch up before day one ends... don't know what kind of time frame we are looking at for that.

So it looks like our kill for the night is decided, have we also decided who will be the executioner?

One thing I'm wondering here... I'm only 15 pages into, but does anyone else find it interesting how seriously Vez has been taking this game? If I were to see those posts by any other player, I would think obvtown... but this is very different from the Vez I have seen. Granted I have only played one game with him, but has anything been said there?
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:52 am

Post by Quilford »

I don't think it matters who is the day executioner, but Zang should be the night executioner.
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:08 pm

Post by Scumhunter »

Cosca wrote:
Scumhunter wrote:Yo Cosca, I'm not the cop.


We actually believe you here, and we always thought you're not a cop.

We just don't believe you're town.


^Keep an open mind. At least read my walls. I'm explaining my self. I'm not the first nor the last townie ever to fake a guilty on someone. Its still within your power to believe me even if 90% of this mess is my own doing.
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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:09 pm

Post by Scumhunter »

EXECUTE THE FUCK OUT OF QUILFORD
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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:24 pm

Post by Quilford »

Scumhunter wrote:EXECUTE THE FUCK OUT OF QUILFORD

LET ME PASS MY PAPERS ON FIRST YOU DUMBASS
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:06 pm

Post by Zang »

CCs replacment-You domt have to give anyone your paper yet. I dont think you are in danger of execution right now. But can you please cnfirm you are a town leader by hammering the town executioner. I dont know the votecount but I think itsmost likely going to be me.

Questions for scumhunter-

1 yo said that you would sacrifice yourdelf if the town killed magna. What did you expect to happen if you flipped as VT before magna is killed?

2 Why shouldnt you be executed? Please answer this question without AtE. You may knowyour alignment but the town doesnt.

Cosca- your caseon magna makes little sence to me.
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:57 pm

Post by SleepyKrew »

I'm asking that the papers all get passed to me because of secret information that you can kill me for later if I don't explain it.
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:15 am

Post by Scumhunter »

Zang wrote:CCs replacment-You domt have to give anyone your paper yet. I dont think you are in danger of execution right now. But can you please cnfirm you are a town leader by hammering the town executioner. I dont know the votecount but I think itsmost likely going to be me.

Questions for scumhunter-

1 yo said that you would sacrifice yourdelf if the town killed magna. What did you expect to happen if you flipped as VT before magna is killed?

2 Why shouldnt you be executed? Please answer this question without AtE. You may knowyour alignment but the town doesnt.

Cosca- your caseon magna makes little sence to me.


1. I was hoping that scenario at the very least would serve as a wake up call about how strongly I felt that MoI was getting town cred for no reason. (I'm still not convinced he's town necessarily, not saying he's "obv" scum or that my play was justified, still don't trust him at all)

2. Because I'm town. Dumb town this time, but town. Ever heard of the phrase "too scummy to be scum"? This is the situation that you would find in the dictionary under that.

-Scum motives for my claim don't make sense. If you read my claim from the very beginning you can see my attitude that I thought it was destined to fail anyways.
-I thought it was my only chance to bring any suspicion whatsoever on MoI who had really skated by this game after poor town play/reads day 1.
-The claim was destined to be an uphill battle from the start and I clearly knew that.
-Barring you viewing my claim as some sort of a "slip", I'd be interested in seeing what you think my scum-intent would be for faking a guilty on MoI there as opposed to an easier target? CLearly I didn't think it was a high % chance I'd get him killed in the first place.
-I've done my best to explain why I did what I did and I thought it was my best option. I felt the game was headed nowhere and that I was going to be lynched later in the game at some point so I might as well do everything I could to try and stop it and push on the hardest scum to lynch imo.

implosion's silence at this point in time is deafening btw. He knows how I play from many a game on EpicMafia and he really should view me as obv town here (no im not joking at all)
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:40 am

Post by Zang »

Scumhunter-

1. What would that accomplish? The town wouldnt kill magna for a VT having a guilty on him or for yo thinking hes scum regadless of yor fake claim.

2. Thats AtE. Also, I dont believe in "too scum to be scummy".

3. If you thought it was destined to fail then why do it? You couldmt have been that sure that he was scum.

4. Thats also a valid scum reason.

5. Scum wouldnt fake claim cop wsith a guilty on an easy target. An easy target could be taken down easily by scum withou that. Scum would have fake claimed cop for the same reason as you, to get the town to lynch thhe person wh0o is viewed as town by everybody else. Also, getting the real cop to out himself is a bonus.
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:46 am

Post by Tragedy »

I assume that Mafia's NKs are most likely just Executions, right?

SH: So wait, if you ended up with "Fake claiming cop", was that purposely a plan to actually make yourself "Too scummy to be scum", which would be damn accomplished right there? +Scumpoints.
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:48 am

Post by Scumhunter »

1. I was hoping to gain the executioner vote and make a judgment of my own accord at that point. Notice that once you claimed, I IMMEDIATELY said I believed you. What scum immediately says they believe their cc is telling the truth. If I were scum claiming cop I would not have backed down for one second and insisted that you were full of shit. NOTICE IM SUPPORTING YOU FOR EXECUTIONER. I believe you are cop. Quilford's miller claim is horse shit. He would have claimed miller in his very first post in the game if he was really a miller and not scum. Honestly, if I were scum with Quilford there would be no fucking point even arguing with you at this point. But I am town so I'm trying to help you not compound my poor play into executing a townie.

2. aTe is not a scumtell. I explain my thoughts in depth on this in another game (see attached link). "aTe being a scumtell" is one of the shittiest "laws" of the game created by stupid people who can't analyze in-depth situations. How it has become a rote truth is a crime against human intelligence and analytical thinking : http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p2994096

3. Like I said it was a desperation play. I was over 50% he was scum and that he was NEVER going to be lynched the rest of the game if that was the case. I thought it was a necessary risk. I wasn't that hopeful he'd be killed but I was hoping if I was uncc'd I'd be able to get the executioner power and I trusted myself to correctly kill a scum (MoI or someone else).

4. Not sure what you are referring to, what is also a scum reason?

5. Not if hyopthetical SH-scum with my hypothetical Quilford buddy were both being fosed strongly. I'd have 100% chose a townie who was at least getting some suspicion over the consensus top-town player in the game. Do you really believe I'd fake a guilty on MoI instead here as scum? Really? Think about that. Do you really believethat ? Because you shouldn't because it makes no sense.

I feel that you are stuck in the mind frame that my faking your role necessitates me being scum and drawing your reasons for why my explanations don't make sense off of that pre-conceived notion that I'm scum. I think it could help if you just read through my posts with the assumption I'm town, just for a second. Force yourself to believe that even if you don't believe it, I think it might help you out =/

@Town, don't completely rule out a Quilford-Zang bus later on. I think its very very unlikely as I believe Zang's claim...but if MoI is in fact town... A town v town cop claim vs. a scum v scum cop claim would be a dream scum scenario especially with 2 MLs already gone.

^ This is a less than 5% possibility, just my paranoia striking really.

Please believe me Zang. I'm doing my best here.
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:59 am

Post by Scumhunter »

Tragedy wrote:I assume that Mafia's NKs are most likely just Executions, right?

SH: So wait, if you ended up with "Fake claiming cop", was that purposely a plan to actually make yourself "Too scummy to be scum", which would be damn accomplished right there? +Scumpoints.


No Tragedy, but good thought, I might use that argument if I were scum and somehow in this position...but I'd really never do what I did this game as scum and be in this position. I mean I'm telling the truth about that and I think I've explained why that's the case in-depth. I know you can't automatically believe that, but I mean, I am explaining myself and I can see how people would view my actions and be like "OMG SH IS SO SCUMMY". What I meant by "too scummy to be scum" is that my actions have been so controversial and impulsive that I'd definitely have thought out what I was doing more as scum. Scum are generally way more cautious and I definitely am as scum.
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