Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[SleepyKrew]

The change of mind happened long after the Cop guilty.
Quil, no, because we don't know for sure.

[jasonT1981]

Yea, but it makes sense the change came after the cop guilty, and he claimed papers. Yea? regardless of being after the cop claim of guilty it is a valid change of mind and not like it just came from no where.

[Quilford]

What do you mean, 50/50 chance?

And why do you think I am scum again?

Because there is a guilty on you, and we have no way to prove that you are not lying about being a miller, other than to kill you. You are either a miller, or scum. And if you are a miller, it is easier to assume that there is a 3 person scum team, have you been reading anything I've said here?

This post is so wrong on so many levels and doesn't explain why I must die today instead of tonight.

[Quilford]

I'm scum because there's a guilty on me and not because I've done scummy things. Riiiiiiight.

[jasonT1981]

Well to be fair Quil, thinking you are scum for having a scum guilty on you (regardless of Miller claim) is a good enough reason to think you are scum. Doesn't matter how scummy you have been... a cop guilty is a cop guilty and worthy of believing you are scum.

[jasonT1981]

*you have been, or have not been that should have said*

[Quilford]

Well to be fair Quil, thinking you are scum for having a scum guilty on you (regardless of Miller claim) is a good enough reason to think you are scum. Doesn't matter how scummy you have been... a cop guilty is a cop guilty and worthy of believing you are scum.

I claimed Miller. And ML didn't list any other reasons why I was scummy.

[jasonT1981]

well a cop guilty is a good enough reason as I said. The miller claim is either believed or not believed. And if not believed (which is the case by the looks of things) then the point of the cop guilty is an issue and that person would believe you are scum, yes? no other reasons for scummyness are needed with a cop guilty. (well, most of the time) Hell, many cops actually investigate the people they DONT think are acting scummy and if guilty a cop guilty is good enough to convict and lynch.

[SleepyKrew]

Jason, the change of mind DID come out of nowhere.

[jasonT1981]

but how can it come out of no where, when there is a cop claimed guilty on Quil, and Quil himself saying he has papers. And his change of mind came AFTER those details were brought to light to everyone?

that is not a change from no where, that is a change based on events that have happened in game through discussion and revelations and is perfectly valid. Understand where I am coming from?

Now, if there had been no cop guilty, and no Quil claiming to have papers, then yes, that would have been a very much out of the blue change of mind and be suspicious. Since in game reasons obviously changed his mind on his original stance, I don't even understand why this is an issue

[SleepyKrew]

ML doesn't believe Quil's paperclaim.
ML thinks only townies start with paper.
ML all of a sudden says Quil and I are scum, and that Quil DOES have paper.
ALL of this happens AFTER the guilty.

[jasonT1981]

exactly.. AFTER the guilty.

Off course a cop guilty claim on someone, and then the person with the cop guilty on them claiming to have papers is going to change his views on things isn't it? put 2+2 together and get 4, and see where I am coming from.

If he changed them before all this, then yes... sure you have a legit issue, but the fact his views were changed AFTER the cop guilty is not an issue.

This is a non issue and I don't understand why you see it as an issue.

[SleepyKrew]

HE DECIDED QUIL WAS LYING ABOUT THE PAPERS AFTER THE GUILTY
THEN HE DECIDED QUIL WAS SCUM WITH PAPER
ALL OF IT HAPPENED AFTER THE GUILTY

[Medicated Lain]

I also considered a Rolecop. But I think the chance is low, and agree that Scumhunter seems o so scumtastic.

This is what I am talking about SK, what did you mean by this post?

More for SK: How am I fence sitting exactly?
Of course my ideas are changing, I just read about 40 pages of game and then jumped right in at about the craziest point possible! Then I start communicating ideas... you think it's bad to theorize any possibility you can think of? We are not 100% certain on the info given to us, so we have to think of what possible choices make the most sense to benefit the town.
Also SK, of course it happened after the guilty, a guilty changes the way you think about things, if it doesn't, then please don't play this game.

Looking at everything that SK is saying right now, my scumdar on SK is going through the roof.

Quilford #1002 response: A cop guilty can NEVER be challenged. The only way that we have to know if you are scum or not is to lynch you. That is it. Based on if you are a Miller, or scum, we can likely make better assumptions about the shape of our town.
It explains perfectly why you must die today! If you are scum, then you either do or do not have papers. If you do, then there's no way you are passing them to town, you are lying to us, and scum will still be holding on, and we will still be trying to keep them away from the scum. If you don't have papers, then this is likely a giant gambit, and you are just pushing for a town death, before your own, because this is how mafia can kill in this game until the town gets smaller. The more you say, the more convinced I am.

Stuff for Cosca: Why does it make sense to vote for someone in the night who is likely town, rather than someone who is definitely town?
Also, I agree that MOI could be scum, but I have already read your posts on the busing theory, and I just find it hard to believe. If MOI actually had a case against him at the time this happened, it would make sense, but it literally came when no one in town had any suspicion on MOI at all, which is the fitting time for someone to do such a fake claim.
He defended himself, and everyone attacked him further....Let's think about that part further, shall we? 3-4 scum in this game. I was the only one that truly started defending SH at all. What do you think the chances are, that there 2-3 scum partners of SH are all pushing the kill on him as hard as possible? It's so obviously scum driven.

One more thing that is worth considering, is that I JUST joined this game last week, and read through all 41 pages of the game within that spam of time. I probably have a much clearer picture of the game as a whole than most of you, unless anyone has been re-reading recently.

Last thing of importance: I would like to vote for Zang as night executor, who does every one else want to vote?

[SleepyKrew]

JESUS
FUCKING
CHRIST
ML, read that post in context. And it's still not a RBer.
NOW ONTO FUCKING BUSINESS
YOUR ORIGINAL IDEAS WERE AFTER THE GUILTY
YOUR NEW IDEAS WERE AFTER THE GUILTY
NOTHING CHANGED IN BETWEEN
DON'T EVEN PRETEND YOU ARENT FENCESITTING ON ME

[mallowgeno]

Prodding MOI

[Medicated Lain]

Wow SK, you need to chill out a bit there.

Alright, I read again, I can see you were responding to MOI now.. but since just several posts before, you had said

You know what's funny? I was planning on faking guilties on Cosca and Scumhunter. lol

I thought you were continuing on that.

How am I fence sitting? You yelling that it is happening, doesn't mean that it is so. I don't know who is scum in this game, I can just speculate, you're really up there on my scumdar, and there is no way in hell that I want you to survive this game unless there is some really good reason that can be shown to me. I don't see how that's fence sitting.
And I told you, I just joined into a game 35 pages in progress, and just started communicating my thoughts to everyone, What changed? Time did. I thought about things, and quil responded to what I was saying, and I responded with logical responses. If it made sense to trust Quil for the benefit of the town, then I would, but it doesn't.

[SleepyKrew]

I'm perfectly calm. Have I not gone bat-shit crazy with the CAPS this game yet? Oops.
You say I'm scum. Then I'm just an idiot. Then you don't know. Then I'm town. Then I'm scum. That is fencesitting.
I know I'm right about your other point, so an argument would be useless.

[Medicated Lain]

I say that I don't know if you are scum or an idiot. As I read through the game, the first 22 pages had me convinced you were scum, and then you just looked like an idiot, but part of the reason you looked like an idiot was that I thought you were confessing faking two different claims, which you just proved to me wasn't the case, and your opinions on how this day should play out certainly looked scummy again. Do I think that you're scum? Yeah, the chances are certainly stronger with you than most the players here. Do I think that you dying would benefit the town? Absolutely. I haven't wavered on that opinion for a second, I dare you to show me where I have.

[SleepyKrew]

ML
fence

She be sittan

[MagnaofIllusion]

Prod acknowledged – very busy week at work.

--

For there being multiple pages since I last had a chance to post not a lot has actually been said.

I support Zang executing his choice today between his Guilty scan of Quilford and Scumhunter. My preference is Scumhunter.

I will be voting for Zang tonight for Night executioner. I don’t see any course of events based on what Zang has posted that are likely to happen that would change my mind.

--

Lain your ‘suspicion’ of me centers around issues that have already been addressed to death over the course of the day. I’m not going to rehash them again. I think, like Cosca, your points lack coherent, solid logic. We are not going to see eye to eye.

I’m seeing a lot of IIoA in your posts – lots of speculation and not much solid resulting analysis. Also you’ve swung back and forth, for example, on Sleepy being scum in the past 3 or so pages to extremes I don’t see as warranted by the content of said pages. Not a fan of that.

MOI: what was scummy about Fitz at all?

Already laid this explanation out. Go back to the start of today and after I got the Night census I explained my thought process.

Question to you

– so you see Scum MoI passing up a chance to kill Town Lain the claimed Paperholder and Doublevoter or Town Sleepy the claimed Paperholder and Power role who I had previously listed as my top two scum reads?

--

I'd prefer to have an executioner who agrees at least somewhat with our reads go over the votes. Why listen to a scum player or a VI when deciding the execution?

I agree, which is why I’d rather Zang not put much stock in your, Scumhunter or Quilford’s opinions as of the moment.

Also, you haven't considered the possibility of different scum teams, or a traitor.

If there are separate scum teams then Town’s chances diminish substantially since an opposing scum faction would get tons of Town credit for masterminding a lynch on the other group.

First use of ‘Traitor’ noted.

Interesting that the concept of two scum teams (who each can only have 2 members) or their being a Traitor (which is something a 2 member scum teams would be on the look-out for) come to your mind.

Yes, this is basically a pointed accusation that your line here comes from the mental standpoint of a player on a two person scum team who is thinking about traitors or opposing factions.

[Zang]

I underestimated the length of my V/LA. I`ll have a wall up by friday tough.

I will saay now though that magna is not beimg killed. Ill investigate him instead.

[vezokpiraka]

I want Quilford dead though,

I'll vote Zang for night.

WOW for SK being the right one and having to fight like that:)

[Medicated Lain]

Firstly, I see now that I skimmed over some pages a little too fast. I looked back and see that SK was the first one to claim anything with papers at all. I do believe that it is possible that one scum member has papers, and I think we will gain better info if Quilford dies in the day today rather than tonight.
But alright SK, your stance looks alright for now. However, just so you know, changing an opinion does not count as fence sitting! Not solidly choosing one way or the other is. However, I don't know what anyone's role in this game is, so if you expect me to be 100% convinced that ANYONE is scum or town... well then you are going to think I am fence sitting all game.
The fact that the mod didn't respond to your question at all SK, I think means that there will be no information released about the papers in the thread.

Alright MOI, you want my case.

so you see Scum MoI passing up a chance to kill Town Lain the claimed Paperholder and Doublevoter or Town Sleepy the claimed Paperholder and Power role who I had previously listed as my top two scum reads?

Everyone knew you were going to be nigh executioner, if you killed a claimed pro town role on night one, of course it would be your death bed today!
A bigger question would be, if you sincerely believe that either SK or I were actually scum, as you have just listed we were some of your top reads, then why would you NOT have killed either of us? You had the opportunity, and if you really thought that we were scum, then I assume you would have killed one of us. So why didn't you? As scum, it makes sense, because you would know that having killed a power role that claimed out, everyone would be after you next day. As town, I cannot understand why you wouldn't kill us.

Now on the other hand, you killed havingfitz.
HF didn't seem scummy in the slightest to me. He was considering information being presented, and not making rash decisions, which is something I consider a town tell. Rest of the town: Did you think HF looked like scum?
However...

A NOTE FOR DAYS GOING FORWARD

–

In case I die before Day 2 starts …

the following

WILL

be the procedure to start out the Day each morning

.

You are annoyingly pretentious. You don't think enough of the people you play with to follow their opinion/wishes if you were to be elected executioner but you have no problem doling out instructions "in case" you die before Day 2 start.

VOTE: vezokpiraka for the moment based on his willingness to abide by the majority opinion.

and

I'm fine with giving my night vote to MoI....pretentious or not I've at least played with him before (unlike most of the others in here) and

assuming he is town

his gut is as good as anyone else's.

HF was the one player in this game who was willing to question your ideas, and wonder about you. We already know that you killed HF, unlike a regular mafia game.. the question in this game is is why? And this is the answer that I see.

[Cosca]

I'd prefer to have an executioner who agrees at least somewhat with our reads go over the votes. Why listen to a scum player or a VI when deciding the execution?

I agree, which is why I’d rather Zang not put much stock in your, Scumhunter or Quilford’s opinions as of the moment.

So you believe Zang should listen to you, vezok and SK? (That's a rhetorical question: of course you'd like the executioner listen mainly to scum and VIs, especially if they refuse to read arguments because their "head hurts".)

If there are separate scum teams then Town’s chances diminish substantially since an opposing scum faction would get tons of Town credit for masterminding a lynch on the other group.

First use of ‘Traitor’ noted.

Interesting that the concept of two scum teams (who each can only have 2 members) or their being a Traitor (which is something a 2 member scum teams would be on the look-out for) come to your mind.

Yes, this is basically a pointed accusation that your line here comes from the mental standpoint of a player on a two person scum team who is thinking about traitors or opposing factions.

You know where we got the idea for a traitor from? From the first Execution Mafia. We already speculated about traitors and several scum factions here.

Another MoI lie noted.