Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[Quilford]

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

LlamaFluff did the same thing and he is a better player than you.

What on earth are you talking about

[SleepyKrew]

vezok, read the game and shut up.
SH, I'm fucking loling so hard right now. I know I'm an idiot. I fucking embrace it. It's people like YOU that "cause genocide".
Zang, I'll go find that quote.

[SleepyKrew]

Okay, I can't find it now, I'll try again later. I mightve never actually posted this speculation in-thread.

[vezokpiraka]

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

LlamaFluff did the same thing and he is a better player than you.

What on earth are you talking about

You claimed miller in response to cop. Like LLamafluff. You are using WIFOM now.

You are scum.

[Scumhunter]

Quilford's "We don't know if Zang is a cop" is the exact sort of way a scum might slip if Zang/Quilford are doing some strange bussing here. I mean just think what sort of "miller" would NOT beileve an uncc'd cop with a guilty on them. There is no way that thought process crosses his mind here as town. It would cross his mind as something to say if Zang was his mafia buddy though to hedge his bets. Again this is not particularly likely but still. Not saying its necessarily likely Zang is mafia, but if he chooses to a townie he could easily investigate over his guilty report...then yea he's not worthy of our trust even if he is town tbh.

If Zang executes me, (when I flip town which I inevitably will), Do NOT elect him again tonight. In that scenario night votes should go to ML please.

[Scumhunter]

vezok, read the game and shut up.
SH, I'm fucking loling so hard right now. I know I'm an idiot. I fucking embrace it. It's people like YOU that "cause genocide".
Zang, I'll go find that quote.

Yes, people like me do cause genocide. I embrace that.

[Quilford]

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1) We don't actually know if he's a cop
2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

So feel free to disbelieve me, but 1) was brought up as more of a theoretical point than anything. I'm not that desperate and we've had the "I'm a miller" conversation many times before.

[Cosca]

I'd prefer to have an executioner who agrees at least somewhat with our reads go over the votes. Why listen to a scum player or a VI when deciding the execution

I don't understand.

For instance, vezok posted this:

Everyone shut up.

Zang execute quilford and lets finish this.

The above posts were total shit. My brain hurts after reading them.

Why listen to vezok when deciding the execution when he's obviously not reading any arguments?

Why listen to Scumhunter when he is obviously scum trying to save his own skin?

The big advantage of the execution mechanic over the lynch mechanic is that we can simply throw away votes of scum and VIs.

Also there is the case of a stalemate with an equal number of votes for the top two candidates. What would you do in such a situation?

I'll decide what to do in that situation if that happens.

That's not a satisfactory answer, since the possibility a stalemate is real. Please have a solution ready in advance and post it.

Finally, there is the night execution which will be decided by the executor alone (which must be agreed upon first), or would you also want to hold a vote for it?

No, I was talking about the day executioner.

Since you already said you don't want to be night executioner, that point becomes moot anyway.

And none of these answered my question.

What question are you referring to?

If we'd fallen for the Scumhunter/MoI gambit and there had been no Zang counter-claim, Scumhunter would be dead but MoI practically conftown.

Why are you so sure that it is a giant gambit? I still find it very unlikely that they planned all of that beforehand just to make Magna, who is seen as town by the majority of town, appear confirmed town.

I believe you will understand after the wallpost. Basically, Scumhunter is scum, MoI is scum and their interactions are a little

too

perfect.

Do you know the exact voting mechanics and the number and nature of scum players? No? Then you haven't proven anything.

I see no situation where town votes don't outnumber scum votes.

The next execution brings us down to 10 players. If there are four coordinated scum and six town (including one doublevoter), or three coordinated scum (including one doublevoter) and seven town, that's 8:7 for scum. And even if that is not the case, there is always the possibility that scum has abilities regarding the night votes (vote suppression, vote switching and so on).

You know where we got the idea for a traitor from? From the first Execution Mafia. We already speculated about traitors and several scum factions here.

Another MoI lie noted

Besides the execution mechanic,

The first execution mafia has nothing to do with this one.

MoI claimed we posted about the possibility of traitor because "[we're] scum looking for our traitor". We retorted that we got the idea from the first Execution Mafia, and it was already mentioned in the thread by implosion (whom we both agree is town) before we did.

quote="Cosca"]Once again, MoI invents a scumtell out of thin air and completely ignores what we actually wrote.

How can you invent a scumtell? As long as it is something that scum would do or is pro-scum then it is a scumtell, you can't just invent one.[/quote]

Of course you can. There are two possibilities.
1. You take a standard scumtell and claim it has happened, when it actually hasn't.
2. You take something that has happened and claim it's a scumtell, when it actually isn't.

For instance, it could go this way:
Cosca: Zang, in your latest post you claimed Scumhunter was your scumbuddy.
Zang: Hey, wait, what? I didn't!
Cosca: You used one question and one exclamation mark in your new post. That's scumtastic.
Zang: What?! Why the fuck is this scummy?

If I repeat this a hundred times (I can always find or invent something, completely disregarding what both I and you have written before), I've wasted a lot of your time and if my reputation as a scumhunter is good enough, something will stick to you, making you scummy in at least some players' eyes.

Ok, so far I have 6 votes to execute SH and 5 votes to kill Quilford.

If nobody changes their votes then I will be executing SH.

Could you post your inofficial "vote count", i.e. which players are voting for whom?

[vezokpiraka]

How dumb do you have to be to not lynch a cop guilty? OMFG.

[Scumhunter]

Why listen to Scumhunter when he is obviously scum trying to save his own skin?

I love how you don't try and discredit my argument itself logically and resort to "omg obv scum"
Pray do tell. Why am I "obvious" scum? Why is my explanation necessarily false.

What if you are wrong? (and you are)

Zang, please reconsider the herp-derpness behind "majority says to kill SH" so lets kill him. You do realize there are mafia in the game right? You know...people who want to kill townies instead of their partners. There are probably 4 such players...so when 6 people want to execute me and 5 want to execute Quilford...did it cross your mind that scum have a strongly vested interest in killing a scummy looking townie.

Also, you have a guilty on Quilford ffs. What more confirmation do you need than that to pull the trigger there. Read ML's wall. You should see it as so incredibly unlikely that Quilford + I could ever possibly be scum together here ML. Then ask yourself, do you believe Quilford is mafia? I mean you are the one with the guilty on him and his claim/reaction have all been complete and utter shit. A vote to execute me is a vote to believe that Quilford is town despite your guilty on him. Which is beyond idiotic really.

[Zang]

Fucking terrible Zang. You have the execution vote (I voted for you btw) and you don't even have the fucking balls to make a decision on your own and hammer the fucking obv scum your own fucking guilty. If you are going to execute me because you are going to listen to the fucking scum woh tell you to do it then just do it again you faggot. id expect that shit out of SK but I thought you at least half a brain. YOU HAVE BEEN ELECTED EXECUTIONER. and yes my behavior was suicidial but which alignment cares more about surviving. DINGDINGDING scum. i was trying to do what was necessary. also the fact that you want to execute me/quilford and the other tongiht is so fucking bad. given the pushback and amount of discussion today it shoudl be fucking obvious that one of us (Hint: me) is not fucking mafia. jesus christ lrn 2 logic. im done with you. make up your fucking mind. man up. if you are going to execute me. FUCKING DO IT. COME AT ME BRO.

So, it's bad that I'm listening to the town instead of myself? It's not my decision to make who get's executed. As I said, there is no pro-town reason to keep you alive today just for you to be killed tonight but there is one for Quilford.

If scum care more about surviving, then why do you keep using AtE and other pointless arguments to try to survive? If you were town then you would admit that you made an idiotic mistake and accept your own death.

It's obviously not obvious that you aren't mafia because the majority of town are calling for your execution.

Why listen to vezok when deciding the execution when he's obviously not reading any arguments?

Why listen to Scumhunter when he is obviously scum trying to save his own skin?

I'm not listening to anybody individually, I'm listening to the town as a whole. I can't just throw their votes out either because then town would be arguing about who is a VI or scum and should get their vote thrown out.

That's not a satisfactory answer, since the possibility a stalemate is real. Please have a solution ready in advance and post it.

The possibility is real but I see no difference in finding an answer now or later. If it makes you happy though, in case of a stalemate, I will decide who is executed

Since you already said you don't want to be night executioner, that point becomes moot anyway.

Where did I say that?

What question are you referring to?

How am I the mafias useful idiot?

The next execution brings us down to 10 players. If there are four coordinated scum and six town (including one doublevoter), or three coordinated scum (including one doublevoter) and seven town, that's 8:7 for scum. And even if that is not the case, there is always the possibility that scum has abilities regarding the night votes (vote suppression, vote switching and so on).

There most likely isn't 4 coordinated scum. Although, I didn't think of there being a vote suppresor.

MoI claimed we posted about the possibility of traitor because "[we're] scum looking for our traitor". We retorted that we got the idea from the first Execution Mafia, and it was already mentioned in the thread by implosion (whom we both agree is town) before we did.

So? My point was that this has nothing to do with the first execution mafia. I was telling you that just because there was a traitor in the last game does not mean there is a traitor in this game.

Of course you can. There are two possibilities.
1. You take a standard scumtell and claim it has happened, when it actually hasn't.
2. You take something that has happened and claim it's a scumtell, when it actually isn't.

1.Then you're not inventing a scumtell.
2.But using the definition I gave, that is not a scumtell.

I get your point though.

Could you post your inofficial "vote count", i.e. which players are voting for whom?

Scumhunter – Zang, Implosion, Quilford, SK, Cosca, Magna
Quilford – ML, SH, Vezok, jason, Tragedy

Zang, please reconsider the herp-derpness behind "majority says to kill SH" so lets kill him. You do realize there are mafia in the game right? You know...people who want to kill townies instead of their partners. There are probably 4 such players...so when 6 people want to execute me and 5 want to execute Quilford...did it cross your mind that scum have a strongly vested interest in killing a scummy looking townie

Why is there most likely 4 scum?

Also, you have a guilty on Quilford ffs. What more confirmation do you need than that to pull the trigger there. Read ML's wall. You should see it as so incredibly unlikely that Quilford + I could ever possibly be scum together here ML. Then ask yourself, do you believe Quilford is mafia? I mean you are the one with the guilty on him and his claim/reaction have all been complete and utter shit. A vote to execute me is a vote to believe that Quilford is town despite your guilty on him. Which is beyond idiotic really.

Why does me being the one with a guilty on him change anything?

No, I think you are both equally likely to be scum.

[jasonT1981]

holy headache of textwalls to come back to. but...

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1)

We don't actually know if he's a cop

2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

Bolded is 110% a slip. Your role PM says you are a miller and you don't think we have a cop in the setup?
Also, your answers to my questions were very very helpful. /sarcasm

As much as I believe Quil to be lying and as much as I believe he will flip scum, this is a total misrep of what he said. He isn't saying anything about having knowledge Zang being a cop or not (besides, how would scum actually know this?) He is saying we do not know if Zang is telling the truth about the claim.

[Scumhunter]

Jason, but to him, Zang would be close to 100% confirmed as cop.

Zang, what I'm saying is you'd be making a mistake to kill me today, tonight, or ever. I'm not scum. aTe is not a scumtell. I immediately said I believed your claim. Why would I say that if I were scum. Jesus, you are being dense.

The "town" you are listening to is infiltrated with mafia. You should be usign your own judgment and I can't fathom that I've been so scummy that I outweigh a guilty report you have.

There have to be 4 mafia imo to counteract the tremendous power town have over night kills. (Plus scum had 4 in previous version of this setup) Essentially this is day 3 in this game after 2 bad, bad mislynches. That's the way you should be looking at it really. That's why this decision is important and its ever so vital that you don't lynch me. But whatevs, make up your mind. I'm tired of explaining myself over and over again if you aren't going to listen.

It's 5 to 5 without you Zang. You hold the power. Man up. Make the decision (hopefully the right one please) and be done with it. Lets go. This is getting tiresome here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This game is dragging ....

if I have to read one more pointless wall of Cosca that is TL:DRed as "No U, I am right, you are wrong" I might have to pluck my eyeballs out.

Zang

- Make your execution decision and let's move forward.

Zang should be the Night Executioner ... no questions asked. He's almost assuredly confirmed Town and no-one else is even close. Arguing against that is an exercise in claiming you are scum.

[Scumhunter]

hey MoI, if I apologize to you for faking a guilty on you will you consider moving your execution vote to Quilford over me seeing as you think he's mafia anyways apparently... If you are town, you won't regret it.

[Cosca]

I'm not listening to anybody individually, I'm listening to the town as a whole. I can't just throw their votes out either because then town would be arguing about who is a VI or scum and should get their vote thrown out.

That's why it's your duty as an executioner to decide who is what.

The possibility is real but I see no difference in finding an answer now or later. If it makes you happy though, in case of a stalemate, I will decide who is executed

Between Scumhunter and Quilford, who would it be?

Since you already said you don't want to be night executioner, that point becomes moot anyway.

Where did I say that?

#600:

Nobody's electing anyone twice in a row.

How am I the mafias useful idiot?

Let's look at the vote counts:

Scumhunter – Zang, Implosion, Quilford, SK, Cosca, Magna
Quilford – ML, SH, Vezok, jason, Tragedy

To us, that reads as follows:
Scumhunter - Town, Town, Neutral, Town/VI, Town, Scum
Quilford - Neutral, Scum, Scum/VI, Scum, Neutral

If you're listening to anti-town players, you are furthering the anti-town agenda, no matter what your intentions are.

MoI claimed we posted about the possibility of traitor because "[we're] scum looking for our traitor". We retorted that we got the idea from the first Execution Mafia, and it was already mentioned in the thread by implosion (whom we both agree is town) before we did.

So? My point was that this has nothing to do with the first execution mafia. I was telling you that just because there was a traitor in the last game does not mean there is a traitor in this game.

MoI claimed we got the idea of a traitor because we're scum and we showed we got it from the last game and a post by implosion about the last game. We named the traitor as a possible scum-aligned role which is not connected to other scum players.

Also would like to remind everyone that Jason has yet to respond to our case on him despite saying =http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 47915]here that he as working on a response to it.

[Scumhunter]

Cosca, what part of my explanation for why I fake claimed did you not understand?

[jasonT1981]

Cosca, what part of my explanation for why I fake claimed did you not understand?

the part I am not understanding is why, as town would you do that at all? thats what I don't understand.

[Scumhunter]

Because I very very much thought he was scum and I thought there was no chance of bringing any relevant attention on that into the town's mind without making it the center of attention in any way I could.

I don't get why fake claiming necessarily has to be such a big deal. I retracted my claim. We have an uncc'd cop with a guilty. Quilford should have been executed several days ago. The fact I'm being considered for execution over a cop guilty shows how closeminded town is to MOTIVATION behind actions which is where truely reliable tells come from.

[Medicated Lain]

I am still in travels and do not have time to answer things that I want to.

Zang, you have a cop guilty. It is best to listen to a guilty, before trying to take out someone who had no case at all against them at the beginning of the day, and did one thing, a fake cop claim, that brought attention to them, which led to half the town believing that they, instead, should be killed.

Quil does have papers, I know now that he is not lying about this. But you asked before about my saying that only innocent people have papers.. you can see I later stated that scum could have them, because if everyone that is town has them, what would stop the town from just organizing straight off the bat to get all of them? These are both theories, and should be open to either possibility.

If you receive the papers, then we have papers in town hands. Otherwise, if Quil is scum, you are risking the papers getting into scum hands. If you do not receive the papers when Quil dies, then we shouldn`t have to worry about them anymore. Quil keeps stressing the IMPORTANCE of papers, but that is something that is Quil`s opinion, that is not what the mod had said about the papers. There is simply something that will happen... my speculation was that the side that collects them will get an extra kill... but that is just a speculation.

You also said to me that I should state before a theory, that it is indeed just a theory.. but is that not redundant? Every piece of information in this game that is not from the mod is just a theory or opinion on some level or another... unless it involves quoting something someone has said. Further more, a game with a slightly bastard theme could even mean that not all of the mod information are facts either. A guilty on a player with a miller claim just cannot be trusted. If I make a mistake, I will let you know, otherwise, I am just adding theories to the pot, like everyone else in this game.

SH is making a lot of sense about deciding the kills. If you just follow majority all the time, then you are giving the mafia a higher chance of making a kill, because there are 3-4 of them that are part of these lists. If you kill Quilford first, and he is scum, ask what sense it makes for SH to be scum. If you kill SH first, you could still ask that question of Quil, but the guilty result on him will never change, and we will never be able to fully trust him, whereas SH still has the ability to be proven otherwise.

Also, people fake claim sometimes, and it is not scummy. SH`s mistake was not telling us sooner that he was lying, to get some attention on to MOI. But don`t try to pretend that MOI has convinced this game he is town anymore, the biggest voice for MOI is SK, and the majority have also declared and agreed that he is an idiot. Meanwhile, SH, Cosca, and myself all have suspicions about MOI, how can you consider this nearly confirmed?

[SleepyKrew]

SH, Cosca, and ML. Such a paragon of townieness that is.
What makes you so sure Quil has papers all of a sudden?

[jasonT1981]

I don't get why fake claiming necessarily has to be such a big deal. I retracted my claim. We have an uncc'd cop with a guilty. Quilford should have been executed several days ago. The fact I'm being considered for execution over a cop guilty shows how closeminded town is to MOTIVATION behind actions which is where truely reliable tells come from.

1) Its a bad thing because we now have an UNCOUNTERED Cop outted to scum and we risk the possibility of losing a cop now IF scum manage to get the night kill via votes.

2) Fake claiming a cop guilty (because of your own personal feelings) could get possible town lynched (if you are really town)followed by you the next day for lying/MOI not flipping scum (if that happens) and town is down TWO players because you lied.

3) How can Quilford have been executed several days ago, when this is day 2?

4) the reason you are being considered is because you admitted to lying about a cop guilty. there is NO town motivation for that what so ever. EVER!

5) Calling town close-minded is not helping you at all. It is maybe making things worse for you.

6) Lying about being a cop, to get someone lynched IS a reliable tell

[jasonT1981]

SH`s mistake was not telling us sooner that he was lying, to get some attention on to MOI

NO. SH biggest mistake was lying about being a cop with a guilty on someone he suspected as scum. Do you realize how that could really screw town over?

[Quilford]

If there were papers in scum's hands, they would be useless because they'd

never

pass them on. And if one of them came under suspicion they'd just pass it to the towniest member of their team!

[Quilford]

That reminds me. Who should I be passing the papers onto?