Mini 1217 - Campaign Mafia (Game Over!)

[Quilford]

I'll most likely be voting Packbat, but I could probably be convinced either way.

[Duplicity]

Ugh. Good thing I didn't get hammer this game, I actually was near certain that Quilford was mafia and that his hammer yesterday was him attempting to save Lurc from scum slipping. I'm going to do some re-reading but I should have a good summary of why I'm town up tomorrow morning at latest.

[Packbat]

I'll most likely be voting Packbat, but I could probably be convinced either way.

I don't have much to offer - I've had a solid .000 batting average all game, which puts me on par with my previous record as a debate club competitor - but like I said, if you have any question about anything I've done, ask and ye shall receive.

[Quilford]

You have a case on Duplicity to offer

[Packbat]

The first thing that springs to mind is 608-612, the placing of a vote on hiplop by one head and the nuking of that vote by the other - Shift had a really good case supporting the hiplop vote based on Twistedspoon backpedaling, and as soon as Regfan gets on, he yanks the vote like it's toxic and backs away from the read with little explanation.

#655/#667 is rehearsed, and I'm an idiot for not picking up on that right away - Lurc

wasn't online

to think he was heading into the weekend with a completed game before Quilford - you - pointed out that Duplicity's vote was a fake, so why the comment?

If I see anything else, I'll add it to those two things.

[Quilford]

Anything else?

[Packbat]

I haven't reread - I'm really tired today, three hours of sleep tired. I could say that the #1 thing that scum would want is to not be on the Lurc wagon yesterday, being as they have to be able to sell themselves as town today, but I don't know how compelling a point that is.

[Duplicity]

Quilford, I urge you to read through some of my scum games. It'll become incredibly apparent that my scum-play is very weak in comparison to my town play and it should become very evident that I'm town just from reading that. If you want a list or links of games to read into just ask, in fact I've hydraed with Shift as scum before in Invicidus Mafia so read through that. Furthermore reading through interactions this game between Lurc/Pom/Hip and Packbat in comparison to their interaction with us should make it obvious that we're town.

I unvoted Hiphop because unlike Shift I actually have a lot of meta on Twisted and despite his contradictions he wasn't playing anything resembling his scum game at all nor was there major scum motivation for his actions (In particular his push for Johhog to be elected). The unbolded vote on Lurc was aimed to get reactions from Lurc and SD. I don't have the luxury of staying online and waiting for them to pop online to make it more effective given my time constraints at the moment but was hoping that no one would ruin it by pointing it out.

Scums choices for nominations and campaigns so far has very clearly shown that they've been intending to win this without it going to a 3 way lylo, this means they're attempting to avoid a weaker or more suspected player having to deal with an election; This is the definition of Packbat right now. You'll note that throughout the whole of yesterday whenever there was doubt on Lurc being town Packbat attempted to push us both towards voting him without stating any reasoning behind his read other than "Shadows ISO looks bad".

I'm heading to bed now but if you have any questions at all just ask them and I'll get to them in the morning or tomorrow afternoon.

[Quilford]

Both of you explain how your meta compares favorably with this game.

[Packbat]

Dude, I don't

even

know. I have all of one-and-a-marathon scum games - my meta is anything but gelled.

If I were to try to make recommendations, in order of most useful to you to read:

• Ozy and Millie Mafia - the single scum game I mentioned;
  
• There Goes the Neighborhood - my worst town game (I was overwhelmed at the time, and couldn't give it the attention it deserved);
  
• Newbie 1122 - my latest relatively-standard game (only quirk: I was IC); and
  
• Reverse Mafia - my latest non-standard game.

[Packbat]

Any comment, Quil?

[Quilford]

Waiting on Dup.

[Duplicity]

My meta is slightly hard to describe. I act very differently when in a hydra in comparison to when alone and also differently depending on who is in the hydra with me. The best way to understand my meta would be reading through a few of my games, I'd suggest Invicidus Mafia, Mini 1156 and Mini 1147 would probably be the most relevant reads.

As town I tend to be very aggressive with my reads early in the game and reaction-test or attempt to use various gambits to obtain reads and then start to doubt myself, overthink and postpone decisions later in the game as evident by multiple of my lylo games. As mafia I'm normally very cool, calm and collected and try to avoid anything that shows any form of emotion because I don't know how to fake emotional tells. My posts are normally longer as scum and involve a large amount of reads lists because people seem to think that reading the game and categorizing players into groups is a town-tell and not something easily faked.

[Quilford]

Okay.

VOTE: Duplicity

[Quilford]

*refreshes furiously*

[Duplicity]

Normally I attempt to avoid posting announcing my alignment until the mod has confirmed the games over but that's slightly cruel in this case and I don't see how the game isn't over. I'm scum and I don't think you should beat yourself up for the mishammer, it was a very hard decision and I'd have hated to be in your shoes.

[Quilford]

oh booooo >_<

-_-

I disliked this setup

[Quilford]

I'll most likely be voting Packbat, but I could probably be convinced either way.

When I said this I meant vote as in 'lynch'; whoops.

[Duplicity]

Personally I think the setup was very town sided, just from randomly deciding on the election town has a 50% chance at success, if you add scumhunting and other factors to that it should jump significantly but I do think it was an interesting concept to test.

Haha, actually when you said that I thought you were attempting to bait some sort of reaction out of me to confirm your town-read on me.

[Twistedspoon]

i don't find many games where scum to control only slightly less than the majority to be town sided but w/e

i still blame maruchan, although most of my own reds were way off

[Slaxx]

I think that although scum make up a good part of the town, the 50/50 thing every round makes this game slightly townsided, if not moderately townsided.

What makes it townsided isn't even the 50/50 in retrospect, its that you get a scum flip EVERY day. That is a luxury I would love to have as town in my games. You can look for a lot of associative tells in this game.

[Slaxx]

In addition to the above, mafia don't even get a night kill to knock out the townie players.

So yeah, although I agree that mafia always making up a lylo-sized portion of the town is scumsided, i believe the abundance of associative tells that can be obtained from scumflips, the lack of any good method of eliminating obvtown, and the straight up 50/50 shot town gets every day greatly outweigh that and make the setup fairly townsided.

[Regfan]

To be fair I don't think a lot of day one was Maruchans fault, when I was reading and following the game I found his actions to be highly town motivated and he was actually relatively obvious town. The fact that Timeater was instantly elected over him shocked me.

[Quilford]

Deadlines didn't allow for enough discussion.

[Quilford]

In fact, mafia got half the length of a town deadline.