Mini 1217 - Campaign Mafia (Game Over!)

[Regfan]

I disagree, one week deadlines for the election plus nomination discussion time was plenty of time to have conversation run smoothly. The fact that there was a lack of content in the game wasn't the setups fault at all but rather the way that people played.

No one thought of creating breaking setup strategies and then using them. For instance a popcorn-election would have been a good suggestion to have been put forward, both players up for nomination state their strongest town-read, when they both flip the person who flips towns has their town-read nominated and elected the next day and so forth. This would prevent mafia gaining any control over who gets elected and nominated almost diminish any numbers advantage that mafia had.

[Quilford]

That would have been a good idea.

I dunno; what it just comes down to for me is that I didn't find it fun. I lurked and I felt unmotivated when I checked my bookmarks and saw new posts; part of the reason why I voted Dup.

[Regfan]

Fair enough, the concept of this setup does direct discussion around the two players elected every day which does allow everyone to have an idea of what to talk about removing any creativity or alternate scumhunting methods that they may have used elsewhere but I think it was a good idea to test out.

[Quilford]

I must say, I'm also annoyed that I forgot the lesson that I learned from SD: gut > logic.

[Johhog]

WTF?

[Quilford]

The scum is:

Pomegranate (Confirmed)

Packbat (90% sure)

/

hiplop (5% sure)

/

Duplicity (5% sure)

Lurconis (55% sure,)

/

SD (35% sure)

/

Quilford (8% sure)

/

Twistedspoon (2% sure)

WTF?

Dooooon't even start.

[Johhog]

It wasn't to you, don't worry. It's just that Duplicity was scum.

[Quilford]

Oh good.

I'm annoyed at my brain.

[Packbat]

I still hate this setup. Quilford, did you look at any of the meta I gave you?

[Crazy]

Vote Count:

Duplicity

(1) - Quilford

Packbat

(0)

Not voting

(0)

Duplicity

has been elected. He was the last

Mafia.

Packbat

has been lynched. He was a

Townie

.

The Mafia establish control over the town by electing three of their members.

Quilford

,

Johhog

, and

Twistedspoon

are killed in endgame.

Mafia wins!

[Regfan]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

[Lurconis]

Good game, tbh I thought the game seemed scum sided. I did get worried those last two days though.

-fron phone

[Twistedspoon]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

[Packbat]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

Man, now I'm wishing I was killed earlier - you guys had a lot more fun than I did.

[Crazy]

Well, I hope all you guys had fun for the most part. This was my first Themed game, and really, it was just a collection of gimmicks that I found interesting and put together. I'm not a big game designer or anything, so I just decided to try some stuff out for no specific reason other than it sounded "cool."

I thought about balance before this game, of course, and I probably would have guessed that it was town-sided. I thought of some ways to fix that, (like perhaps adding an extra townie and giving the scum the ability to, at one time in the game, decide to kill an obv-town nominee and revert back to Morning rather than forcing one of their own to go against them.) But that (and some other ideas) sounded too awkward, and I wasn't sure if the game would even be town-sided enough to warrant that. As TS pointed out, scum has a

lot

of influence in this game. The mafia had the physical power to win the Johhog and TS elections if they wanted to, but (rightly) they opted for town-cred instead. So while the EV is 50/50 with the candidate elected chosen randomly (actually more if the self-nominee is always chosen), the scum have way more power here than they would in a normal game.

I'm still not entirely sure about the balance. I was relieved that at least this

specific

game ended up being close. Overall, though, I think both Town and Mafia have a decent chance to win in this setup.

One problem which became noticeable around the mid-game was that the combination of the self-nominations and the 1v1 somewhat stifled scum-hunting, since there wasn't a lot of room to explore other options. Those ideas seemed cool in theory, but led to less exciting results. One thing I did enjoy was the WIFOM of "Why would scum nominate X" and stuff like that.

Meh. I'm not going to mark this game as a failure, since I don't think there was anything horribly wrong with it. I think it was worth trying out once, at least. Hopefully the rest of you don't feel like it was a waste of time. Congrats scum, and the town put forth a good effort.

[Twistedspoon]

I'll post the mafia QT tomorrow if none of my partners object before then. Is there a dead QT?

yep

Man, now I'm wishing I was killed earlier - you guys had a lot more fun than I did.

not really

had i been left alive I would have pushed duplicity and Luc nominations way too hard. My reads were awful this game

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn...
Packbat is the single most abysmal town player I've ever encountered in any of my games I guess... I mean - 100% wrong over four or five elections?

Regfan's idea goes into the right direction, similar to my random suggestions that every one just ignored, quick nominations that scum cannot influence, let scum pick their candidate in the dark and then have an intense but focussed discussion on the actual candidates. Too bad that som people actually prefered to mark me scum for playing this game with a strategy
Short deadlines are not a problem, in general long deadlines favour scum because they allow town to drift far into wrong directions. With the very focussed permanent 1on1 nature of this game any longer deadline wouldn't have been needed anyway and we never came in trouble to achieve a lynch at deadline.
The more I think about the maru situation the more I think that some mod-legislation would have been appropriate. Not reading one's role PM pre-game before posting a vote or, in this case, entering an election is absolutely against the spirit of the game. Since this is an open setup any combination of force replacement and redistributing role PMs wouldn't have been too much trouble.

[Packbat]

Damn...
Packbat is the single most abysmal town player I've ever encountered in any of my games I guess... I mean - 100% wrong over four or five elections?

Gee, tell us how you

really

feel.

The more I think about the maru situation the more I think that some mod-legislation would have been appropriate. Not reading one's role PM pre-game before posting a vote or, in this case, entering an election is absolutely against the spirit of the game. Since this is an open setup any combination of force replacement and redistributing role PMs wouldn't have been too much trouble.

Yes.

Force-replace and role-rerolling would have been good, there - definite violation of community norms by Maruchan, here.

[Crazy]

I think that would have been too extreme for me to force-replace Maruchan for that. If in the Evening phase he still hadn't read his role PM, then sure. But Maruchan was going to enter the campaign immediately regardless of his alignment. He didn't do it to avoid making scum-tells or hide any association from his "buddies" or for any particular strategic reason at all, and he would have done the exact same thing even if he

had

read his Role PM.

I actually half-expected someone to join the campaign immediately, so I don't blame Maruchan for that. It obviously wasn't good play, but I don't think it was scummy. Quicklynching him before Timeater even had to post was pretty bad, but it made the start of this game more fun to read, so I don't mind.

[Pomegranate]

I actually rather enjoyed this game, and following it after I died. Speculating whom the mafia would nominate is interesting from the town perspective, and trying to avoid that/blend in with that was interesting from scum PoV.

[Maruchan]

Personally I think the setup was very town sided, just from randomly deciding on the election town has a 50% chance at success, if you add scumhunting and other factors to that it should jump significantly but I do think it was an interesting concept to test.

Haha, actually when you said that I thought you were attempting to bait some sort of reaction out of me to confirm your town-read on me.

Thats only if you don't throw Maruchan into the equation.

[Maruchan]

To be fair I don't think a lot of day one was Maruchans fault, when I was reading and following the game I found his actions to be highly town motivated and he was actually relatively obvious town. The fact that Timeater was instantly elected over him shocked me.

I'm glad I am not COMPLETELY hated for this game

[Maruchan]

In fact, mafia got half the length of a town deadline.

D1 was over in less than 24 hours.

[hiplop]

nomming me was a BAD move. It was the worst time to nominate me...

[Maruchan]

Well, I hope all you guys had fun for the most part. This was my first Themed game, and really, it was just a collection of gimmicks that I found interesting and put together. I'm not a big game designer or anything, so I just decided to try some stuff out for no specific reason other than it sounded "cool."

I thought about balance before this game, of course, and I probably would have guessed that it was town-sided. I thought of some ways to fix that, (like perhaps adding an extra townie and giving the scum the ability to, at one time in the game, decide to kill an obv-town nominee and revert back to Morning rather than forcing one of their own to go against them.) But that (and some other ideas) sounded too awkward, and I wasn't sure if the game would even be town-sided enough to warrant that. As TS pointed out, scum has a

lot

of influence in this game. The mafia had the physical power to win the Johhog and TS elections if they wanted to, but (rightly) they opted for town-cred instead. So while the EV is 50/50 with the candidate elected chosen randomly (actually more if the self-nominee is always chosen), the scum have way more power here than they would in a normal game.

I'm still not entirely sure about the balance. I was relieved that at least this

specific

game ended up being close. Overall, though, I think both Town and Mafia have a decent chance to win in this setup.

One problem which became noticeable around the mid-game was that the combination of the self-nominations and the 1v1 somewhat stifled scum-hunting, since there wasn't a lot of room to explore other options. Those ideas seemed cool in theory, but led to less exciting results. One thing I did enjoy was the WIFOM of "Why would scum nominate X" and stuff like that.

Meh. I'm not going to mark this game as a failure, since I don't think there was anything horribly wrong with it. I think it was worth trying out once, at least. Hopefully the rest of you don't feel like it was a waste of time. Congrats scum, and the town put forth a good effort.

I want to know your honest gut-opinion on the quick-nom I pulled