PYP 5: Democracy Ho! (Game)

[Seraphim]

DX: what do you think is Nocmen's alignment?

[xRECKONERx]

um why are we just dismissing the gunsmith claim so easily
srs question

[implosion]

I'm mentioning occam's razor because i thought you were scum

before

i tracked you. That's kind of, y'know, why i tracked you.

I'd go into a big argument right now, but it's much easier to just wait for the wagon to get to however many people so you can die. so. yeah.

[implosion]

um why are we just dismissing the gunsmith claim so easily
srs question

Sheeping CES who you think is bussing? o_0

That's not a reason, that's an excuse. You're palming off responsibility for your vote..

And then he claimed an innocent report on said chamber.

psychologically, a real gunsmith would have their night result in mind while replying to the person they investigated (especially since there are no false negatives in the setup except potentially the redirector which would be unlikely as hell) when they posted, and wouldn't implicate him.

But DX claimed gunsmith either because his team has the GS / he wants to out the GS / he was forced to claim something and didn't think about what he had said earlier.

[implosion]

Also, i like how he's calling me scummy for pushing on the person who i tracked to someone who selfprotected on a night with no kill.

[David Xanatos]

Sera, with the speed of the wagon built on him, I think Town. I can't see a scum being taken up that fast, with noone actually making a case. There's at least a couple of scum on that wagon.

And Implosion, you're dismissing a claim offhand because you can't be arsed thinking through the nature of your role. You know that if you'd told me to claim without revealing your role, you'd have gotten better information, and now you're trying to cover up the fact you fucked up by waiting for the quicklynch.

PEdit: Are you seriously trying to claim that I can't feign suspicion for the sake of seeing who would bite on a potential wagon when the Nocmen wagon fell apart?

Psychologically, that's idiocy. I've already stated my reasons for my words and actions.

[implosion]

And Implosion, you're dismissing a claim offhand because you can't be arsed thinking through the nature of your role. You know that if you'd told me to claim without revealing your role, you'd have gotten better information, and now you're trying to cover up the fact you fucked up by waiting for the quicklynch.

I know the nature of my role. I understand that in theory it is possible that another person could have killed chamber or there could be another reason for the lack of a kill.

I explained why i wouldn't have gotten any better information with a "claim or die" method in some post.
I explained why you are scum in 333.
You aren't town. Theory is not practice.

[Seraphim]

I have a question for you. If you had really wanted to start a wagon on chamber to see who would bite AND you wanted to try and stop up the Nocmen wagon, why, in fact, did you not VOTE chamber rather than claiming soft suspicion of him?

[xRECKONERx]

meh ok

Vote: DX

if he's town Sera dies tomorrow

[David Xanatos]

Telling someone to, as you so crudely put it, "claim or die" would force someone to have to take a guess whether it was a Tracker, Watcher or Role-Cop. The latter two being potentially disasterous for a Scum who then fake-claims a role.

And no, on 333 you wildly speculated about motives, which I've responded to. You're basing your entire case on saying that a "Gunsmith wouldn't do that".

Here's the thing. Some of us think before typing, and know how to bait Scum. You're presuming that I would reveal everything immediately, which frankly I see no gain in, given the alternative courses of action open.

Sera: Because I still wanted an answer to my question to the Nocmen wagon at large. Placing a vote would then take some focus away from that, and in my eyes, would be counterproductive to trying to back Scum into a mistake.

[implosion]

so david xanatos didn't read my post where i EXPLICITLY SAID that a rolecop would have no reason to do a claim or die method; tracker and watcher are functionally equivalent in terms of what you'd claim to not be confirmed scum. You claim some random role, depending on what you want to do with your probably dying breath, that visited the person that you really visited.

I did think before typing; i

explicitly said

that i considered it before claiming. You're reaching for something that you can do to try to swing the lynch on me, and i honestly shouldn't even respond to you because i don't need to because you are being lynched.

[implosion]

also, i briefly considered a "claim or die" method, but it would have made me as tracker or watcher kind of obvious given the setup being semi-open. I can't think of any other role (except maybe role cop, but they'd have no desire to make the role public) that would do that.

Which would have made fakeclaiming easy.

[Hoopla]

meh ok

Vote: DX

if he's town Sera dies tomorrow

No, if David flips scum, Sera dies tomorrow.

Seraphim's play is textbook scum trying to capitalise on a dying partner. When you're scum going down, you try and squeeze as much out of it as you can - whether that is outing other PR's, tying yourself to townies or your partners trying to net some town points for pushing the wagon. This is what Seraphim is doing - he's trying too hard to be the enforcer, catching scum in his lies. Chamber's 322 was enough - Sera is trying to wring the last drops of town points from it.

[xRECKONERx]

EN GARDE, HOOPS

[David Xanatos]

Role Cop could easily do so, especially if they only won that role. Scum are liable to lie about roles if they can, simply to avoid having to claim results that could be used to assist a buddy later in the game.

[implosion]

Role Cop could easily do so, especially if they only won that role. Scum are liable to lie about roles if they can, simply to avoid having to claim results that could be used to assist a buddy later in the game.

no. a town role cop would have no reason to tell someone to claim or die; it needlessly outs a claim if their target was town, and doesn't even necessarily catch their target if their target is scum.

There is no guarantee that scum would lie about their role; ergo, there's no guaranteed benefit if your target is scum. There is a guarantee that if your target is town, they will claim their role; ergo, there is guaranteed malefit or whatever the opposite of benefit is if your target is town. no town role cop would do that, and you and i both know it when even a role like strongman can be town (even if uselessly so).

[Seraphim]

And here we enter the paradoxical situation where I am tomorrow's lynch regardless of what DX flips. Wonderful.

Seraphim's play is textbook scum trying to capitalise on a dying partner.

Or maybe I'm just online and easily excitable?

[xRECKONERx]

yeah you're def gettin lynched tomorrow

[Seraphim]

Boy, it's posts like that that really make me enjoy playing Mafia.

[David Xanatos]

We'll agree to disagree on the Rolecop situation, neither of us are going to be swayed I believe. It still doesn't change the fact that you're basing an entire case on "Gunsmith wouldn't do that.", which is rather weak reasoning at best. And note how quickly the wagon grew, again a speedlynch that the Scum are rejoicing over.

[Nocmen]

We'll agree to disagree on the Rolecop situation, neither of us are going to be swayed I believe. It still doesn't change the fact that you're basing an entire case on "Gunsmith wouldn't do that.", which is rather weak reasoning at best. And note how quickly the wagon grew, again a speedlynch that the Scum are rejoicing over.

It's not that a gunsmith doesnt do that, it's taht you don't go suspicious of someone who you get an innocent on in this game.

[Hoopla]

LOL Sera...

[implosion]

two things; 1) that is a gross misrepresentation of my case; 2) even if it wasn't, "gunsmith wouldn't do that" is perfectly good reasoning when you are... y'know claiming gunsmith and i have a scum read on you anyway.

[Seraphim]

LOL Sera...

I can't for the life of me figure out what that emote is.

[implosion]

yeah... me neither.