[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[BBmolla]

Jester Is A Terrible Role And I Should Be Ashamed Of This Setup

5 Vengeful Townies
1 Idiotic Cop(During the night, chooses a player. Will either get "Not Third Party" or "Third Party."
1 Jester Rolecop
1 One-Shot Dayvig Lyncher(Jester as target)
2 Mafia Goons

• *If Jester is lynched, game ends.
  * Jester does not know who lyncher is.
  * Can not No Lynch
  * Town wins if there is no remaining Mafia.
  * Jester/Lyncher win if jester is lynched, regardless of whether lyncher is dead.
  * If Jester dies, Lyncher commits suicide.
  * Mafia win if they have equal or more numbers to each of the other factions in the game. (2-2-2 is mafia win)

[Junpei]

does lyncher know who the jester is?

I like the premise of this setup a lot, by the way.

[BBmolla]

Jester is his target, so yes.

[Junpei]

2v2v6?

So.. basically 1 cycle and the game is practically over? Well lets see...
Lynch + veng + mafia kill + dayvig = game over which could happen in one cycle. So.. do vengfuls have to shoot? Because I wouldn't, and if I'm the lyncher I'm shooting up immediately so that town can't use a vengkill without losing. And I'm aiming for town so that the village is under more stress day 2 so that my fool can ride to victory a bit easier.

So... 7, 9 vengefuls make more sense to me.. but I'm not sure how balanced it is even then. Jester doesn't really need to know who lyncher is to get the job done, he just needs to look like scum, but not to where they'll vengekill him.

7..
2v2v8
Eh.. that's not enough because then you get 2v2v4, so you get instant mylo after a single cycle of mislynches.

9..
2v2v10
2v2v6
2v2v3
I think 9 vengefuls makes sense in this setup the most, but I'm not sure if the fool works as well in this setup. I'll have to think about it.

[izakthegoomba]

IMO Jesters are fine in Open setups. It's unnanounced Jesters in non-bastard games that are the problem, right?

[BBmolla]

2v2v10 is enormous. My goal was to make this setup as small as possible.

The worst possible scenario is a day 2 LYLO, which makes it essentially a 7P setup. However, there are lots of possiblities in regards to who is lynched, who is vengekilled(or if there even is one) and who is night killed.

Also a lyncher not saving day-vig for Idiotic Cop is a moron. Just saying.

[Junpei]

People just don't like Jesters on a fundamental level I think.

Also Lyncher has no reason to shoot mafia because if mafia die then gg for you.

So, Lyncher is going to shoot the first person they think is town. I just feel like you're giving town the tools to find the faction that they don't need to eliminate to win. And you're giving lyncher/jester abilities that they might not really need, whereas mafia may do good to have a rolecop or something like that.

pedit: Yeah BBmolla, I was just sayin, I don't know what is truly balanced in regards to how quickly LYLO comes in certain setups, but I personally would be annoyed as fool with just two shots to do it when it is likely that you have the scenario where..

3 potential kills and only 1 is desired for fool. Makes it hard.

The town 3p cop just says: "this guy is 3p, dont ever lynch him or use vengekill on him, it's not worth wasting our lynch on him when d2 is lylo or worse" which = fool instant loss. Otherwise he's useless. Also vengekills are meaningless if you can't use them, and in the setup you showed, if town mislynches and hits a vengekiller, then they cannot shot the vengeshot because why would you risk losing there instead of getting another day?

[BBmolla]

Hrm. I see what you're saying.

Could make Fool nightkill bulletproof. Or remove the Third Party cop.

TBH I was worried about fool/lyncher being too overpowered, but I may have overdone it.

I originally considered not giving Mafia a nightkill, but I felt it would make them too underpowered.

Maybe make it so that the Vengeful shot can not kill town. If you target town, the shot does not go through. This would reduce the deaths.

Edit: Yes, lyncher shot is strictly for Idiotic Cop.

Maybe I should give lyncher/fool factional daytalk?

[Junpei]

BP fool? So you have to vengekill it? I don't like that, as it forces village to burn two resources on the fool. Remember that mafia want to kill village, as that is the quickest way to victory in a 2v2v2 mindset.

In my opinion, you should get rid of direct investigation roles. When I was designing my fool setup, I realized that the role was either useless or overpowered, so I compromised to find a weaker yet still prominent PR in the Mad Scientist. Honestly other than that role I don't know what you could place, it took me weeks to come up with the idea to steal PrimeIntellect's role.

Otherwise, you could go no investigative PRs, and say X amount of vengefuls, fool, lyncher, mafia rolecop, nilla mafia?

That to me is a decent enough idea. But hm.. I feel like it would be good to have 1 town role where it doesn't get a veng kill. So perhaps a 1-shot rolecop? If you are going with this setup though, it has to be pretty small. So maybe 2v2v5, which is a 9p game. Kind of my raw ideas, but maybe it helps you.

[Whiskers]

Hrm. I see what you're saying.

Could make Fool nightkill bulletproof. Or remove the Third Party cop.

TBH I was worried about fool/lyncher being too overpowered, but I may have overdone it.

I originally considered not giving Mafia a nightkill, but I felt it would make them too underpowered.

Maybe make it so that the Vengeful shot can not kill town. If you target town, the shot does not go through. This would reduce the deaths.

Edit: Yes, lyncher shot is strictly for Idiotic Cop.

Maybe I should give lyncher/fool factional daytalk?

Lyncher/Fool Nightchat would be a great thing.

take out the Vengefuls. Make that another setup.

Mafia/Fool Co./Town.
2/2/5
Goon + Goon
Fool + Lyncher
Vanilla + Vanilla + Vanilla + Vanilla + Jailkeeper

Yep.

[BBmolla]

^I like that setup actually. Why Jailkeeper though?

[Junpei]

Maybe EM Jailkeeper where you keep someone from their night QT?

[BBmolla]

Maybe EM Jailkeeper where you keep someone from their night QT?

That would be really tough to mod, don't you think?

The only way I could possibly think of doing that is have the JK pick target in the twilight phase.

Looking back, Jailkeeper is a good role to have. Cop instead might be good too, would allow lyncher to fakeclaim cop. I mean they could fake claim Jailkeeper now but I feel it'd be less effective.

P-Edit: Actually having confirmed innos is probably a bad idea so scratch that. Jailkeeper is good.

[Whiskers]

Remember each team has nighttalk!

As long as the FoolCo. has nighttalk, I'll second it.

[wierdalexv]

Innocence Faded

x1

Mafia Godfather

x1

Mafia Bladefather

(Godfather to Gunsmith)
x1

Mafia Goon

x1

Investigation-Immune Serial Killer

x1

Cop

x1

Gunsmith

x0-2

Millers

x0-2

Gun Owners

(Miller to Gunsmith)
x6-10?

Vanilla Townies

12?:3:1
Not sure on the number of VTs, that's honestly nothing more than a guess.

[Whiskers]

What does the Investigation-Immune Serial Killer report as to the cop and gunsmith? Since there's not roleblocker, if you get "No Report," or just njo report, then you know you hit the SK.

[wierdalexv]

SK turns up as Town/No Gun.

[Whiskers]

So... cops are mostly useless? They can only detect two of three scum, and might catch two fake townies. They can't clear anypony until SK and their Godfather are lynched...
Then again, it's about 16 players, so idk.

[Junpei]

I'd say 7,5 VT, maybe even 3.

I don't know, it seems like it is very swingy in the sense that before the GF dies, the cop is useless, and then afterward it is very very powerful. Times that by 2, factor in that SK has no incentive to CC, makes a very swingy setup in my opinion.

But that's just me.

[Faraday]

gun owners and millers are presumably informed?

[ortolan]

just a heads up; open setups with jesters don't work and aren't fun to play. don't even bother.

[Quilford]

just a heads up; open setups with jesters don't work and aren't fun to play. don't even bother.

[Junpei]

No son, that is wrong, it's just not the way things are done.

I believe that that is a direct quote from every movie about an amazing person with a great idea (me or BBmolla) who has to fight against the harsh and brutally portrayed society (you) for acceptance.

[izakthegoomba]

So, why don't they work?

[Junpei]

So, why don't they work?

Because, Izak, they 'aren't fun'. Just like how I think normals aren't fun, so people should stop making normals.