Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[Magister Ludi]

I like this StringerBell guy!

Yeah, warriormode's initial post was very worthy of a vote. I would say that crypto sprinting away from a warrior vote looks suspicious if warrior ever flips scum. (Its also possible crypto is trying to go with the idea that a lot of posts equal town, and is just posting high volumes to this end.)

[MagnaofIllusion]

i think magnaofillusion knows better than to vote me

Yeah, you probably need to re-adjust your perceptions. You've presented what at this early stage is the scummiest post I have seen so far. Thus you get a vote. Pretty simple process.

[Magister Ludi]

Crypto, why would you want me to explain why someone should be voted, if you agree that they should be voted?

[crypto]

okay, okay, magister ludi, you've cowed me into busing my scum mate. it's only page 3, so i'm confident enough that by the end of day one he'll have wormed his way out of getting lynched like all early-game obvious scum do, thanks to his own recovery as well as to the town's wondrous ability to overlook plain scummy behavior and instead obsess over ridiculous conspiracy theories.

unvote
vote: warriormode

what i have on magna is very thin, so this satisfies me.

preview edit:

Crypto, why would you want me to explain why someone should be voted, if you agree that they should be voted?

i want to get a feel for your thought process. that's a cornerstone of effective scumhunting.

You've presented what at this early stage is the scummiest post I have seen so far.

enlighten me.

[Toogeloo]

Indulge me here Toog - the only times I recall you getting significant pressure and getting lynched Day 1 you were scum. Do you have any Town games where that happened?

DEFCON 2 Me v. Scum Fate, Fate won that battle.

Here is a list of every game that I have been called scum in and lynched (or endgamed) at some point, though I was town:
Earth's Struggle
DEFCON 2
Reck's World of Warcraft
Bloodbath in Camden


I play most my games offsite though, so a good majority of my meta is found elsewhere. Not entirely sure why you care about this though, you know my meta, you've played with me enough.

I'd like you to specifically state whether you object to the claim passing or actively try to undermine it (by not being forthcoming or truthful) to make things "more interesting" as you put it.

I haven't yet determined if I find the system advantageous to town or not.

[Toogeloo]

I like the RVS or RQS or whatever stage. It's about the only post in the whole game where you have fun for fun's sake. After that, it's about winning.

There is usually nothing random about the RVS/RQS. The game is always about winning.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not an expert on crypto's play, I've never played with him before, but it certainly seems to me that a), b), and c)

were all part of RVS, and therefore not really to be taken seriously.

In d), he jumped on the warriormode "wagon", which consisted of Magistar Ludi and nobody else, because warrior's reasoning was nonexistent.

The bolded I read as similar to Junpei’s assertion that RVS is useless. I disagree in that RVS votes are part of the game and often can be used to find relational tells.

--

enlighten me.

I already did. Did you not read my post where I voted for you? You position that the plan is stupid and implosion should be quicklynched for mentioning it (regardless whether it was RVS or teehee reaction testing or whatever you want to call it) was the closest thing to scummy play at that point.

Your recent play calling out others for not providing reasons while you engage in the exact same behavior has so far provided me with sufficent reason not to move it.

--

DEFCON 2 Me v. Scum Fate, Fate won that battle.

Here is a list of every game that I have been called scum in and lynched (or endgamed) at some point, though I was town:

Being lynched outside of Day 1 as Town isn’t really relevant. It pretty much happens to every Town player who plays Mafia.

Saying your playstyle generates scum-reads as you did is Anti-Town. If you are Town you’ve only given scum an open invitation to attack you by self-admitting you are naturally ‘scummy’. If you are scum it’s a pre-emptive measure to say “I’m not scummy, it’s my playstyle” which is a complete cop-out. Neither serves Town’s interests.

I haven't yet determined if I find the system advantageous to town or not.

Did you read Cyclical X01? Because regardless of how the Mod has crafted the set-up to reduce the effectiveness clearly the plan does not give scum any additional information and helps Town via PoE and helping to establish reads based on the claimed pass targets. I’m not quite sure what else you might have to say on the issue.

[crypto]

blah

i wish you would vote

or state some reads

or something

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah, warriormode's initial post was very worthy of a vote. I would say that crypto sprinting away from a warrior vote looks suspicious if warrior ever flips scum. (Its also possible crypto is trying to go with the idea that a lot of posts equal town, and is just posting high volumes to this end.)

Please elaborate on why his initial post was vote-worthy.

[crypto]

I already did. Did you not read my post where I voted for you? You position that the plan is stupid and implosion should be quicklynched for mentioning it (regardless whether it was RVS or teehee reaction testing or whatever you want to call it) was the closest thing to scummy play at that point.

where did i give that reason for my quick lynch suggestion? do you think my quick lynch suggestion was serious? have you ever come across the word

facetious

before? do you know what the opposite of serious is? do you think that experienced mafiosi would attempt blatantly anti-town play?

Your recent play calling out others for not providing reasons while you engage in the exact same behavior has so far provided me with sufficent reason not to move it.

that's a blatant misconstruction. i've done no "calling out." i ask questions to strengthen my understanding of other players' thought processes. that's how i get reads. you're misattributing a critical or threatening quality to my probing when you.

[Toogeloo]

Saying your playstyle generates scum-reads as you did is Anti-Town. If you are Town you've only given scum an open invitation to attack you by self-admitting you are naturally "scummy". If you are scum it's a pre-emptive measure to say "I'm not scummy, it%u2019s my playstyle%u201D which is a complete cop-out. Neither serves Town%u2019s interests.

I was giving my personality traits as asked. Take it however you want.

[crypto]

I already did. Did you not read my post where I voted for you? You position that the plan is stupid and implosion should be quicklynched for mentioning it (regardless whether it was RVS or teehee reaction testing or whatever you want to call it) was the closest thing to scummy play at that point.

where did i give that reason for my quick lynch suggestion? do you think my quick lynch suggestion was serious? have you ever come across the word

facetious

before? do you know what the opposite of serious is? do you think that experienced mafiosi would attempt blatantly anti-town play?

i expect real answers to all of those questions, by the way. i'm not one for joking around.

[Toogeloo]

blah

i wish you would vote

or state some reads

or something

I'll get on this eventually.

[Toogeloo]

Would you count Mass Effect Mafia, MoI? You thought I was scum Day 1 there, I lived through the Day and you tried to swap me with you you hoping I would eat the bullet... which ended quite humorously if I recall correctly.

[MagnaofIllusion]

where did i give that reason for my quick lynch suggestion? do you think my quick lynch suggestion was serious? have you ever come across the word facetious before? do you know what the opposite of serious is?

do you think that experienced mafiosi would attempt blatantly anti-town play?

Of course I understand what being facetious is. I’m not some 12 year old you can make cower with rapid posting and empty questions like these.

The bolded is telling. Of course they would if they thought they could get away with it. Players like Fate and Sociopath specialize in it. Appealing to the WIFOM this early on seems like a pretty over-the-top reaction to what is minimal pressure at this stage.

that's a blatant misconstruction. i've done no "calling out." i ask questions to strengthen my understanding of other players' thought processes. that's how i get reads. you're misattributing a critical or threatening quality to my probing when you.

Asking people to justify their votes is ‘callling out’ as I put it. And you have clearly done that. Examples –

is this vote reasoned or random

so you've established that i move quickly and unpredictably.

why are you voting me?

do you actually think i am mafia or is this a policy-type vote? if you think i am mafia, then what do you think is the secret scum agenda driving my play?

You are welcome to get reads however you wish. If that process I find scummy I’ll vote / inquire of you. That’s how Mafia works. In this case you ask others to provide reasoning but yourself don't. That's low level Cognitive Dissonance.

Let me ask you – looking back at ISO 7 you specifically ask Warriormode if his vote was ramdom or serious and then three posts later vote him agreeing that it was scummy before he even responded. Why question him if you’ve already drawn the conclusion within minutes?

--

Would you count Mass Effect Mafia, MoI? You thought I was scum Day 1 there, I lived through the Day and you tried to swap me with you you hoping I would eat the bullet... which ended quite humorously if I recall correctly.

Given I didn’t play in Mass Effect Mafia I’m not sure what you are getting at here. Please explain.

[Toogeloo]

Given I didn%u2019t play in Mass Effect Mafia I%u2019m not sure what you are getting at here. Please explain.

"whoops" ... had you confused with someone else lol.

[Toogeloo]

Mass Effect Mafia.... Spyrex thought I was scum Day 1, and he was Jack with a Bus, Vig shot, and some other junk. My first post I stated I wanted the Governror lynched because I didn't want scum to have the role, I got a lot of flak for it. Spyrex made the case that I was scum, but someone else was lynched. That night, Spyrex bussed me and him, thinking that he was going to get shot and was hoping I would take the bullet. Instead, I got shot, and Spyrex ate the bullet.

[crypto]

Let me ask you – looking back at ISO 7 you specifically ask Warriormode if his vote was ramdom or serious and then three posts later vote him agreeing that it was scummy before he even responded. Why question him if you’ve already drawn the conclusion within minutes?

his vote was scummy. it was understandable. i found the real substance of his post intuitively scummy.

You are welcome to get reads however you wish. If that process I find scummy I’ll vote / inquire of you.

"i don't lynch people for behavior that is actually scummy. i lynch people whose peculiar scumhunting methods i find instinctively suspicious, probably because they feel foreign to me. embrace your irrationality, fellas. that's what i do. and i get by!" – magnaofillusion, paraphrased

[crypto]

at least you have the decency to use the spaced en dash rather than the stuffy antiquated em.

[MagnaofIllusion]

his vote was scummy. it was understandable. i found the real substance of his post intuitively scummy.

Why question him then?

And why was it scummy? Elaborate.

"i don't lynch people for behavior that is actually scummy. i lynch people whose peculiar scumhunting methods i find instinctively suspicious, probably because they feel foreign to me. embrace your irrationality, fellas. that's what i do. and i get by!" – magnaofillusion, paraphrased

More empty rhetoric. Thanks, I’m getting a good idea at your playstyle already and it will help me develop a solid read on you as the game progresses.

[crypto]

Why question him then?

again, understanding people's thought processes is fundamental to my scumhunting – and everyone else's, i hope.

And why was it scummy? Elaborate.

i said it was intuitively scummy. that indicates that i don't have strong logical reasons. but i found his post rushed and uncurious (bordering on bored) and too minimalist.

Thanks, I’m getting a good idea at your playstyle already and it will help me develop a solid read on you as the game progresses.

you're welcome, magnaofillusion. you're so welcome.

[crypto]

i should add that that mock quote was intended to be a genuine criticism of your approach

[MagnaofIllusion]

i said it was intuitively scummy. that indicates that i don't have strong logical reasons. but i found his post rushed and uncurious (bordering on bored) and too minimalist.

If you can explain how you think any of these attributes (rushed, uncurious, too minimalist) actually applies or how they are scummy please do so. If the answer is "Gut / Intuitive" don't worry about responding.

[crypto]

i'd like to think he would be more curious/eager/zealous at the start of the game and looking around for things to do, embers to stir, etc. i know that when i'm town i'm always amped up at the start of a game. the rushed, over-minimalist appearance is a manifestation of that lack of curiosity. obviously, early-game excitement varies from player to player so it's not a terribly strong lead.

[Kdub]

Official Passing Strategy

–

The Cyclic Claim process is a two step process.

Step 1 - The Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim to have passed a power. You do NOT claim the Power or who you passed it to.

Step 2 - The second Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim who you passed the power in Step 1 to. In the case of possessing multiple powers you claim every person you passed the to. You do NOT claim what the power was.

Having not played in the first game, is this strategy supposed to be some balance between being able to figure out the setup and not giving the scum too much information? I don't see any fundamental problem with it, I just don't understand the reasoning behind the details of what and when things get revealed. Also, how is it supposed to deal with limited-shot powers that can disappear, or what happens when somebody's power gets revealed earlier? If I'm undermining the strategy by asking, feel free to say so and I'll drop it.