[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[izakthegoomba]

Plus, town has 2 PRs in this one. How about this:

1 Fool
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Goon
1 Town PR
8 Townies

• Daystart
• Fool can select investigation immunity or 1-shot BP/lynch immunity it wins when lynched, but only if it's lynch means the mafia immediately win.
• Town PR is randomly one of the following: Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper

Because Tracker would be functionally identical to Cop when it's the only Town PR, I took it out. It might be good to take out Jailkeeper, too.

[Whiskers]

Okay, here's what I feel is going on:

Jun, you're trying to do too many things at once. There is too much going on in your setup for me (I'm also afraid of Large games).

Quil, Izak, whomever else, you're trying to turn it into 2of4--+Fool. Not enough going on in the game. The whole point of the setup is; Using the MSci, and; Having an even/odd day fool.

However, I

might

suggest limiting to one fool. Give him the choice of even/odd at gamestart.

[Junpei]

Why do that? The fools have even chances of winning, statistically speaking. Is there a problem that you think is resolved from that move?

[Whiskers]

Even to each other. I don't see what the point of having two fools is though.

[Junpei]

Well 1 fools that is odd/even seems.. I don't know it just doesn't seem as secure as two fools with odd/even.

What I'm saying is I like that town has to be wary both days, I'd rather not it be "50% chance x 1/12... almost .04 chance of lynching fool" and then you hardly worry. But when there are fools fooling every day, the paranoia sets in, or at least, you are much more on the look out, which creates a good environment for mafia, which is why there is just two.

[Hoopla]

Slots Mafia

People seem to like the variable open setups with a massive amount of possible options. So here is one.

3x Mafia Goons
10x Vanilla Townies

~ There are 7 slots to choose from, each containing a variety of roles. Many of the categories have a high proportion of Vanilla roles, but scattered across them are powerroles sorted by category. Pregame, each player (mafia and townies alike) gets to choose a slot to draw a role from. They will then be given a random role from that slot.

Spoiler: The slots

Slot 1: Protection

Bodyguard
Doctor
1-Shot Jailkeeper
1-Shot Jailkeeper
1-Shot Doctor
1-Shot Self Doctor
7x Vanilla

Slot 2: Blocking

Jailkeeper
Roleblocker
Roleblocker
Rolestopper
9x Vanilla

Slot 3: Investigation 1

1-Shot Role Cop
1-Shot Role Cop
1-Shot Slot Cop (determines which slot a player chose from)
1-Shot Tracker
1-Shot Cop
1-Shot Cop
Godfatherizer (If mafia selects this role, they become a Godfather. If town selects this role, they are given a VT role PM and a random mafia player becomes a Godfather)
7x Vanilla

Slot 4: Investigation 2

Cop
Watcher
Tracker
Tracker
Ninjarizer (If mafia choose this role they become a Ninja. If town selects this role, they are given a VT role PM and a random mafia player becomes a 1-shot Ninja)
9x Vanilla

Slot 5: Killing 1

1-Shot Vig
1-Shot Vig
Blank 1-Shot Vig (Given a 1-shot Vig role PM, but shoots a blank)
2-Shot Vig
Voteless (has no vote for the game. Doesn't affect votes required for a lynch)
8x Vanilla

Slot 6: Killing 2

1-Shot PGO (player's choice which night to enable role)
Vengeful
CPR Doctor
Suicidal (Suicides on Night 1)
9x Vanilla

Slot 7: Miscellaneous

1-Shot Redirector
Voyeur
Miller
Neighbourizer
1-Shot Janitor
Universal Backup
7x Vanilla

Obviously the setup is very swingy, but extreme scenarios should be relatively rare. Each slot was designed to give slightly similar benefit to mafia and town and more potential risk for stronger possible roles, ie; the stronger the role you desire, the more chance there is of being Vanilla or something negative.

[izakthegoomba]

How are we supposed to even

start

balancing that?

[Hoopla]

You don't.

[Faraday]

Suicidal player is informed they're suicidal?

Looks like a fun set-up.

[Hoopla]

Suicidal player is informed they're suicidal?

Looks like a fun set-up.

Yeah, they're told they die N1.

[Whiskers]

Each player gets to pick from any category, right?
Like, if they all pick Protective, then all those roles show up on one side or the other.

What if they all pick Protective except one, and that one picks investigative? Does he roll on the investigative list?

Can you (technically) have all doctors?

[izakthegoomba]

If an investigative role is redirected, are they informed?
Who can a Vengeful kill?
What does a Town Janitor do, and how do they act?
Can two people take the same role, even if it's not duplicated in the list?

[Hoopla]

Ah, right. No double-ups. So, if all 13 players picked the protection category. The 13 roles in the game would be those 13 roles listed in that category. If 12 players pick the Protection category, then 12 random roles from that category are selected and distributed amongst the 12 players who picked it. If someone picked the Investigative 1 list, they get a random role from the Investigation 1 list.

- No notification on redirection. Ideally mods should phrase investigation results in the form of "your target went nowhere", "your target is town" etc.
- A Vengeful can kill anyone on its final lynch wagon for that day.
- A town Janitor can't do much. It can use its action if it wants, but it shouldn't. This is the night Janitor role, so the Janitor picks a player at night, and if they are successfully killed, they will flip as ????? Obviously only scum should use this role.

[izakthegoomba]

Perhaps replace Janitor with Janitorizer, then?

[Hoopla]

Maybe scrap it altogether. Janitors suck. I don't know what I was thinking.

[mykonian]

Maybe scrap it altogether. Janitors suck. I don't know what I was thinking.

We didn't know what you were thinking either.

[Empking]

To continue the theme of super original set ups

Double Dip Nightless

2 Mafia Goons

4 Vanilla Townies

Nightless & Double Dip

[Hoopla]

2x Mafia Goons
1x 1-Shot Town Vig
1x 1-Shot Town Twilight "Loverizer"
3x Vanilla Townies

~~

- Daystart
- "Loverizer" chooses two people just after a lynch to turn into Lovers. Those two players then get a quicktopic opened up for them, where they can talk as much as they want. Alignments and roles aren't revealed by the mod in the QT. If any of these two players are lynched/killed from then on, the other dies simultaneously.
- Loverizer has a designated 24-hour window post-lynches to use its action. This is to ensure Lover pairs know they're Lovers before kills get made. This is to ensure mafia don't unwittingly shoot themself at night if they get loverized with the townie they kill. The reason it isn't a day action, is because optimal play is to just loverize the two scummiest players d1 and lynch them both, which is boring.
- Mafia/Town lover pair endgame = draw.
- 50% of players required to no-lynch

[IceGuy]

I don't think the Loverizer can use his power to the benefit of the town, especially as he can lose the game for town very easily, even if he uses his power T1: mislynch, loverizer loverizes two townies, mafia kills one of them makes two scum and two town, GG.

It seems to me the optimal strategy is to use the Loverizer merely as a named townie.

[Hoopla]

I don't know. Presume the town mislynches Day 1. If you can't hit one scum from two 2/5 shots, then you probably shouldn't be playing mafia. If you do hit one scum, then the town only needs to kill the Goon to secure a draw at the very least. It's also a possible strategy for town to vote on who gets loverized.

[Hoopla]

Even in the best-case scenario for scum you posted, if the vig shoots N1 and hits scum, the town gets a 2:1 lylo. The town isn't going to mislynch D1, Loverize two townies and miss with the vig shot all in succession very often. It seems like a 1/5 sort of probability for all those to come true, which is fine by me - the town had enough chances. They missed four times.

[IceGuy]

Ah, forgot the vig.

[Empking]

It seems like its best play to massclaim to me.

(If scum counterclaim vig then you can allow the vig to vig the other one. If scum counterclaim loverizer then you let the loverizer loverize their counterclaimee and a scaoegoat and the vig vigs the scape goat. With no counterclaim I see around a 0.6 EV.)

[IceGuy]

I think I found a breaking strategy.

Town asks for claims right at the start of the game. Vig and Loverizer claim.
Scum can't counterclaim, since a vig counterclaim would be killed by the real vig and a loverizer counterclaim would be loverized to a pre-announced random player and the vig would kill the random player.

This gives 2 scum, 2 confirmed town, 3 town.
Vig chooses a player to vig (not the lynchee, not a confirmed townie), to be used in case of a scum lynch.
Loverizer chooses two players to loverize (not the lynchee, not the vigee, not a confirmed townie) and announces this.
Lynch (2/5 scum lynch, 3/5 town lynch).

Scum lynch:
Loverizer loverizes (2/3 scum-town, 1/3 town-town).
Vig vigs (1/4 scum kill and town insta-win, 3/4 town kill).
Lynch one of the lovers (2/3 town win, 1/3 scum win).

Town lynch:
Loverizer loverizes (1/6 scum-scum, 2/3 scum-town, 1/6 town-town).
Vig vigs one of the lovers (1/6 scum win, 2/3 1-1-1 endgame, 1/6 town win)
If endgame, 1/2 scum win, 1/2 town win.

EV for town: 3/5.

And of course, as I've calculated and typed this, Empking has already made a much shorter post with basically the same content.
DAMN YOU

[Mr. Flay]

Even in the best-case scenario for scum you posted, if the vig shoots N1 and hits scum, the town gets a 2:1 lylo. The town isn't going to mislynch D1, Loverize two townies and miss with the vig shot all in succession very often. It seems like a 1/5 sort of probability for all those to come true, which is fine by me - the town had enough chances. They missed four times.

I'm not sure that percentage is right, but it still seems high for a N1 loss.

Chance of hitting a Townie on the D1 lynch = 3/7 (killing the Vig or Loverizer doesn't fulfill this scenario)
Chance of the Loverizer hitting two Pro-Town people = 3/5*2/4, yes?
Chance of the Vig hitting one of those Lovers = 2/5 if the Vig isn't one of them, 1/5 if they are. 2/5*4/5+1/5*1/5, I think.
Chance of Mafia hitting one of those Lovers = 2/5... but this stacks with the above chance to kill a Lover.

Did I miss something?