Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[SleepyKrew]

Then why were you so hesitant to commit on a read of me earlier.

Play SDC style with the SDC. They aren't here right now.

[xRECKONERx]

These past x-amount of pages have been like

*terrible*

asking Llamarble why triangle is scum after all the shit that's happened over 22 pages is LOL

[Pine]

Didn't realize we were that close to a lynch on Triangle. I'm on board, Soda or SKrew tomorrow.

Unvote
Vote: Triangle

[Pine]

^Hammer

[implosion]

no, i think it's l-1.

why hammer without a claim?

[Pine]

>_< Dammit implosion

[implosion]

oh.

sowee

[implosion]

wait...shit. i missed a vote.

[Pine]

There were 4 votes last VC, plus FoN's and mine, she's at L-1. Was trying to riff off of Reck's...ummm...

reck

lessness (I slay me )

Cat's out of the bag. Claim in your next post, Triangle.

[xRECKONERx]

Why the fuck would you point out she wasn't really hammered?

Way to fucking ruin it, implosion.

This dumbassery probably makes him town, though.

[Pine]

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

[Force of Nature]

I'm pretty confident Implosion is town mostly because of the "Oh! X's play super lines up with Xtown" stuff.
Maybe that's partially because I was one of the X's, but I feel generally fine about the rest of his stuff too.

[Pine]

Eh, that's pretty subjective. I'll sheep your townreadfor now though.

[Force of Nature]

Also 535 makes me want to go back to voting Pine.
It's really hard for scum to resist "you have a townread on town for a bad reason; they should still be eligible for scumconsideration but I'm not going to push on them right now."
There are so many little things in Pine's posting that just give me a feeling he'll flip scum.
I kind of want to think about this more.
UNVOTE:
QUOTE STRIPIN' TIME.

Heh, Force of Nature can be Town,

at least for D1.

Careless attitude right out of the box makes me think "this person is not concerned about how people think of him (them?)", ergo Town.

Scum have a kind of urge to constantly qualify statements.
It's obvious a page 2 read isn't engraved in blood, so qualification is totally unnecessary here.

CONTRADICTIONS AND ATEEEEEEEEEEE
MY FAVS

ATE was my first thought too. Soda's reacting really scummy to this wagon.

Unvote
Vote: Soda

Okay, pine apparently sees SK as on a similar wavelength to his own.

I'm hearing you on it, I just like Soda better for now.

PE: SK is either scum or really off his game this thread. Reck's right.

SK's voting THE SAME PERSON Pine is voting. People helping me lynch scum just aren't having bad games.
Also this is part of a bunch of Sleepy / Triangle / Yates attacking that goes on while Pine's vote sits happily parked on Soda:

Yates would be so much less scummy if his last couple of posts didn't have hyphens.

I agree. The hyphens are meant to convey pauses in thought, and they seem highly contrived and artificial. I missed that the first time through, thanks for pointing it out.

Pine. Please just answer this with a yes or no. Do. I. Play. Well. As. Town?

Not going to let this go, are you? It isn't a yes/no question, and phrasing irrelevant subjective questions in a black or white context is a classic scum tactic to then go "Aha!" The answer is that I believe you are capable of playing Town well, and I believe you are capable of playing Town poorly. In this case, I feel you are playing scum. Poorly.

Again, this scumread on sleepy is weird with his other scumreads. I think he wants to say A and B and C are all scummy let's lynch all of them instead of thinking A OR B OR C are scum and trying to figure out which is town. As town if my scumreads don't make sense together I have a POWERFUL URGE to try and figure out what's confusing me. Pine just maintains scumreads on a bunch of people and voteparks on Soda.

Any explanation to that vote? Or are you just gonna sit there with a vote on me and expect everyone to wagon..

Scum have a way of asking for an explanation where town would essentially just call the accuser dumb or scum.

I agree with the majority of your case on Soda, but not this. Personally, I can think of very, very little in this game more frustrating than being Town and having unexplained votes on me. I've gone batshit on people for not having good reasons (not counting RVS) for their votes, when all of mine (both as Town and as scum) are meticulously considered and usually explained in detail.

Your vote is parked on this guy but you nitpick part of my case... Bleh.

I want to say that 403 is too blatantly scummy to be scummy, but from what I've observed I am uncertain that Mattman is competent enough to be that clever. In other words, as much as I want to dissect the WIFOM of OMGUSing that badly, I don't know if it's possible.

ANOTHER guy he fencesits and vaguely leaves in the scumpile. Vote stays securely parked on Soda.

I answered your question a long time ago, at least twice. I decided to ignore your constant pestering to quote it, thinking you'd let it go and learn how to read my ISO. Your question was and is utterly irrelevant to the current game, and therefore continuing to hammer away at my refusal to answer it a third time is either really bad scum play or

ridiculously

bad Town play. Combined with your other scummy actions, it comes off strictly as an attempt to appear productive while making it seem like I'm not answering legitimate questions. This is a false premise. Your vote on me is based solely on this, which equates to really, really bad OMGUS.

Now go ISO me and kindly fuck off.

He sounds like he's yelling at somebody he knows is town (though Sleepy has been sitting on his scumlist) and is frustrated that they're stumbling into causing nuisance to scum by being stupid.

I think Pine is counterwagoning.

Pretty sure my opinions on Soda were registered long before the Triangle wagon began. Both wagons have their origins in the first few pages. But you're right, I will happily go over to the Triangle wagon if that's the one that's going to go through today. I feel both have roughly equal merits, though those merits are different.

Soda is scummy and a liability if Town. Triangle is very scummy, and though not a liability, will not be taken seriously if Town because of said scumminess.

Fence sitting super hard between two wagons while parked on one of them instead of trying to figure out which is the WAGON OF TRUTH just feels like the scum approach to the situation. Not to mention: If town starts running up a scumbag after running up town, scum will often lock in on the original townie who was run up to try and get them lynched instead rather than trying to start a new CW. You attacking various people while locked in on soda may be that. It's also possible Soda & Triangle are town and you're scum with Reck or some other pals.

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

He ISOed himself and saw he had said stuff during RVS and had to asterisk it to make it unimportant. If I see no reason to believe somebody is scum I just say so; who cares what I've said before if it's brought up I can explain. Also like I said before this is just such a fence-sit + townreadblock move.

[Force of Nature]

Well that was a wall, but I want to let other people understand what's bothering me about Pine and see if I can get some agreement / disagreement.
This town is frustratingly lacking in drive.
WALL SUMMARY for TLDRers:

1. Pine does fencesitty qualify-ey nitpicky stuff that collectively feels like scum trepidation.
2. He doesn't try to figure out WHICH of the people he's called scum are scum and which are town, he just vote parks on one guy and calls a bunch of other people scummy.
3. He thinks SK was on the ball early and voted Soda for much the same reason as SK (suggesting SK's playing well), but also accuses SK of being 'scum playing badly.' Then he yells at SK like he knows SK's town but is frustrated with SK over being caught for the wrong reasons. Side-by-side ISO highlights how scummy Pine's interaction with SK looks.

I've asked hurricane to pour over this stuff and tell me whether I'm crazy or not.

[Pine]

Eh. I do all of those things as both Town and scum. The one thing that irks me is your insistence on the whole "SK was playing well early" thing. I think SK is bussing Soda, and I think it's obvious that's what he's doing. Hence agreeing with him at first, then realizing they were distancing buddies. I feel I've been extremely clear about this.

[xRECKONERx]

GODDAMMIT KEEP TRIANGLE AT L-1

I WANT A FUCKING CLAIM

[Regfan]

Vote Count 1.6:

Triangle123 (5): xRECKONERx, SodaSpirit17, Yates, Grimmjow, Pine
Pine (1): SleepyKrew.
SodaSpirit17 (1): Implosion
SleepyKrew (1): Weirdalexv
Weirdalexv (1): Uphill
Mattman (1): Furcolow
Uphill (1): Mattman

Not Voting (2):

Triangle123, Force of Nature

If Grimmjow hasn't responded to his prod by the time I wake up I'm going to have to find a replacement for him.

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch or no lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-10-31 23:00:00)

[Force of Nature]

If you're so convinced SK is bussing Soda (who you supposedly want to eliminate as a liability as opposed to a clear scum) then why are you voting Triangle.
It doesn't fit.
VOTE: Pine

I just checked out a few games of meta and as town, you list a lot of people as scum but you make guesses about what pairings make sense (A or B is scum but not both etc) and have an idea about what the scumteam might be in a way that you don't here.
You also don't do nearly the same level of qualify-ey nitpicky fencesitty stuff. (Pine fencesits as town but tries to figure out which is the right side of the fence instead of letting things just sit)

[Pine]

I have a crystal-clear idea of what the scumteam is. Soda-SK-Triangle. I am willing to lynch any of the three of them, and have maintained that for a long time now. You'll notice that I've done a lot of vote-hopping and vote-leaving, and it's on the three of them. I don't see a whole lot of Town vs scum arguments except between SK and I and between Reck and Triangle. Considering that I've been at the center of the former and have supported Reck in the latter from the start, I did not feel it appropriate in the former or necessary in the latter to explicitly state my position, as I felt it was very clear.

Soda is probably scum, I have never wavered on that. However, I feel the case is slightly weaker on him than the other two, hence why I mention that even if I'm wrong, lynching him as a liability is pro-Town anyway. This game is much clearer than most, so I have not fence-sat on those I feel are scum, and have not been motivated to get down to brass tacks with those who are slightly suspicious but outside of my core three.

My meta is very spontaneous and changeable, and varies widely from game to game. I'm aware it is bad form to comment on one's own meta, but there it is. I don't have or believe in a single strategy as either Town or scum, and I tend to adapt based on the game, who I'm playing with, and my mood. Here, I have quite a number of strong Town reads, three strong scumreads, and very few neutral opinions, most of those lurkers.

[SleepyKrew]

Where the hell have I distanced from Soda?
Does my meta factor into your read of me Pine?

[Pine]

-Voting Soda right away, then backing off of him, then bussing him hard when his number came up
-Obviously

[SleepyKrew]

-No. He's one of my four caught scum. You are wrong.
-My meta is very spontaneous and changeable, and varies widely from game to game. I'm aware it is bad form to comment on one's own meta, but there it is. I don't have or believe in a single strategy as either Town or scum, and I tend to adapt based on the game, who I'm playing with, and my mood.

[Uphill]

I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. It could simply be warning a buddy that she wasn't really hammered and feigning an "oops". I don't have any reason to belive implosion is scum*, but...I don't really have any reason to think he's Town, either.

*(the RVS stuff was reasonable for then, but weak for the main part of the game)

I have a crystal-clear idea of what the scumteam is. Soda-SK-Triangle. I am willing to lynch any of the three of them, and have maintained that for a long time now.

Wait... If you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam being Soda, Sleepy, and Triangle, then why wouldn't you have any reason to think implosion is town? Wouldn't that make him town by default? What in the hay-ell is your motive for trying to keep implosion from looking town when you have a

crystal-clear

idea of the scumteam that doesn't include him?

I think I was hasty reading Pine as town

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pine

[SleepyKrew]

YES
JOIN ME MY LEGIONS