Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[Force of Nature]

Kondi: Why the vote on SK?

Slight associative tell. Why does Triangle care about who Kondi's voting if it's not her buddy?
Triangle referring to sleepy by the nickname SK also gives me the littlest twinge.

Vote Soda or Pine or Grimm or Reck.

Why Grimm or Reck? Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't made a case for either of those two.

Same sort of thing here. These pointless questions are a tad more likely to be either asked of scumbuddies or about scumbuddies.

Actually Sleepy was the first onto both of the big wagons he was on.
Also Implosion thought Sleepy and I were town, so us being the two people Reck / others have expressed interest in lynching is pretty sketchy.
I still can't say that I trust Reck. Though if Imp was a threatkill for :anyone: it would be Soda.

I'd be all over Soda not for this:

I really don't like Yates either, but it makes a really suspicious of triangle when she voted Yates right after Llama FOSed Yates and then unvoted her.

UNVOTE: SK
VOTE: Triangle

Eh, the Sleepy side of Sleepy-Triangle is AWESCUM.
He says basically NOTHING about whether he thinks Triangle, main wagon of the day, is scum / why.
Collecting Sleepy's mentions of Triangle:

[Force of Nature]

What about his contradictions and AtE and stuff?
What about Reck and triangle?
Why aren't you voting?
Who's scum?

Reck is defscum. No way town Reck would vote a lurker after tunneling on triangle so hard.

SS be useful. triangle be useful. alex why am I scum? Furc and Uphill be useful.
Vote Soda or Pine or Grimm or Reck.

Pine, so am I a hardcore busser or a distancer? You've said both now.
I am not pushing triangle because I don't think he's scummy.
triangle, you are mistaken.

So is triangle scum or no?

Llamarble, why is triangle scum?
Care to reveal your kittens?

Reck. Vote Pine and I'll help with a triangle lynch tomorrow.

I will

bus

vote Soda at deadline if needed, but don't see a Sodalynch happening.
Still waiting for someone to tell me why triangle is scum.

Excuse me for catching all the scum in one day. I'll be sure to only do one at a time from now on.

You're not that good at this game, and you know you're not that good at this game.
So why the pretense?

Because my play's been up recently and normally I'm not too confident in my reads, but I feel sooper confident right now. Expect my normal postgame apology if I'm wrong.

Now please, WHY is triangle scum?

554 is especially bad. He doesn't think Triangle is scum, but he'll be willing to help lynch Triangle tomorrow?
This game has seen an unrealistic level of certainty from Sleepykrew.
Not to mention all the "please elucidate the case on Triangle so I can argue about it" stuff.

[Uphill]

Your 180s at the beginning of the day don't have any reasons. Your Pine town read had one reason. What I'm looking for is a thought process; reasons behind the change. You have none. All you're doing is changing your opinions on players whenever the hell you feel like it; and, coincidentally enough, these 180s are all on easy lynches. If you had a thought process behind it, it wouldn't look so terrible, but... you don't.

They do have reasons. Those reasons are because I don't think scum would have kept pushing Triangle if just one of them could have flipped over to Pine to spare Triangle, and I'm I definitely said this at the beginning of the day:

I agree that the scum probably weren't bussing Triangle when the Pine lynch was so very, very plausible.

How the hell is that not a thought process?

I did both those things.

How can you say something like this? Especially when YOU YOURSELF said you weren't?

Uhhhh.... I didn't say that? Please, quote me saying either that I ignored Triangle or that I had no reasons for finding Triangle town, because then I'd be a proven liar.

None of what had happened in the meantime swayed me either way regarding implosion.

So you didn't find ANYTHING that implosion posted scummy or townie. Nothing at all.
You also didn't find ANYTHING that anyone posted scummy or townie either, except for Pine's "crystal clear" post.
And somehow every single other person playing either A) found something scummy/townie in someone past their initial scum reads, or B) were smart enough to pretend that they did. Are you telling me that you just form opinions at the beginning of each day that can only change after the night.

No I didn't just form opinions at the beginning of the day, I wasn't even in the game at the beginning of the day. I imagine I'd have changed my opinions a lot more yesterday if I'd been here from the start. In any event, tunnelling isn't my strategy or anything, it's just how things turned out D1.

And Force makes a very good case on Sleepy. I'm in.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SleepyKrew

[Yates]

SKrew is a decent lynch, too, as I outlined in my scum reads here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3566482

However, I would much rather be done with FoN. I appreciate that he is coming around on the Yates-Town idea but that just makes him feel even MORE scummy.

[Furcolow]

vote: sleepykrew

[Pine]

Motherfucker. FoN is a smug son(s) of a bitch, but probably Town. As much as last night's argument pissed me off, and as much as I stand by many of the concept arguments I made, I just don't see scum going that toe to toe with me in that situation. Backed up against the wall near a lynch, sure. Against a scummy player they were trying to bring down, yes. But experienced scum with only a little pressure on them and easy avenues to turn the conversation would have taken those avenues. Met me halfway, turned or deflected the conversation. To use a fencing metaphor, they'd have parried instead of using a hard block.

Unvote
Vote: SleepyKrew

[Furcolow]

Yeah, I believe FoN is probably town...

[Regfan]

Vote Count 2.2:

SleepyKrew (5): Force of Nature, xRECKONERx, Uphill, Furcolow, Pine.
Force of Nature (2): SodaSpirit17, Yates.
Uphill (2): Nachomamma8, Grimmjow.
Pine (1): SleepyKrew.

Not Voting (1):

Weirdalexv.

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-11-18 13:50:00)

[Nachomamma8]

How the hell is that not a thought process?

How the hell is it a thought process? You said that scum probably weren't bussing triangle because the Pine lynch was so plausible, yes. But you only gave one specific reason for alex, who you voted yesterday. You did not give a single specific reason for ANY of the people you 180'd on. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Nothing at all.

Uhhhh.... I didn't say that? Please, quote me saying either that I ignored Triangle or that I had no reasons for finding Triangle town, because then I'd be a proven liar.

I honestly didn't notice she was lurking until you pointed it out just now

How do you not notice that someone is lurking unless you are ignoring them? If you're paying attention to them, then you should notice at least how active they're being.

No I didn't just form opinions at the beginning of the day, I wasn't even in the game at the beginning of the day. I imagine I'd have changed my opinions a lot more yesterday if I'd been here from the start. In any event, tunnelling isn't my strategy or anything, it's just how things turned out D1.

Okay, fair enough on this. But the main problem with your reads is that when they do change, they change without a thought process. For example, look at my FoN read. I came into the game a bit unsure, so applied pressure, made demands, threaten to vote. Then, after a little while of exchange, that evolved to a town read. You did this with your Mattman vote, but it's the only time when I can trace your thought processes at all. This needs to change, or I won't be able to see myself voting anywhere else for the rest of the game until scum kill me.

[Pine]

Yikes, didn't realize that was L-1. Thanks for the timely Vote Count.

Sleepy, please claim.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

...

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho - FoN posts like these viewtopic.php?p=3566180#p3566180 [and any number of other posts - pick one] are simple fluff. One recognized scum tactic is to post enough fluff that LOOKS like content while serving no real purpose other than to confuse. That's where "FoN is doing a really bad job of trying to obfuscate obvious Town voting. At this point his antics have moved from being mildly irritating to flat out forum fecal discharge. " comes from. To me, it's clear as day.

That posts emphasizes his point with numbers, which isn't necessarily a bad strategy. There might not be any analysis in that, but he is providing hard data on his game that can be double-checked and interpreted. I wouldn't call it fluff, though.

I do see your point of him posting fluff, but I think that's something everyone does when they've made enough posts. Not every sentence you make will serve a purpose; some will be completely stylistic. This doesn't mean that he's purposely obfuscating Town voting.

[Yates]

Skrew it. I'm comfortable with a SKrew lynch.

Unvote

Vote: SleepyKrew

Hammered.

[Yates]

@Nacho - I'm open to listening to your Uphill argument. I just REALLY dislike FoN.

[Pine]

WTF Yates. I think SK is Scummy McScummerson from Scumsville, but you always give them a chance to claim, to spare scummy-acting Town power or find inference and association from flailing, panicking scum.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, hm. I must be switching up things you did for things SK did in my head.

Unvote; Vote: SK

...

don't you ellipses me, say what you want to say

[Regfan]

Final Vote Count of Day Two

SleepyKrew (6): Force of Nature, xRECKONERx, Uphill, Furcolow, Pine, Yates.

Uphill (2):

Nachomamma8, Grimmjow.

Force of Nature (1):

SodaSpirit17.

Pine (1):

SleepyKrew.

Not Voting (1):

Weirdalexv.

With six votes SleepyKrew has been lynched.

SleepyKrew was a Vanilla Townie.

You now have 48 hours to send your night actions in to me.

[Regfan]

Nachomamma8 the Town 2-Shot Neighbourizer

has died a bloody death.

Vote Count 3.0:

Not Voting (9):

Force of Nature, Uphill, Weirdalexv, SodaSpirit17, Grimmjow, xRECKONERx, Pine, Yates, Furcolow.

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-11-22 21:50:00)

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: FoN

This shit is happening, might as well make peace with it now.

[Uphill]

I tried to get this in after the hammer yesterday, but wasn't fast enough:

How the hell is it a thought process? You said that scum probably weren't bussing triangle because the Pine lynch was so plausible, yes. But you only gave one specific reason for alex, who you voted yesterday. You did not give a single specific reason for ANY of the people you 180'd on. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Nothing at all.

It's simple PoE, if scum wasn't bussing Triangle, then FMPOV they must be among Alex, Sleepy, Force or Furc. I don't see why it matters that this reasoning isn't specific, it's still reasoning.

Uhhhh.... I didn't say that? Please, quote me saying either that I ignored Triangle or that I had no reasons for finding Triangle town, because then I'd be a proven liar.

I honestly didn't notice she was lurking until you pointed it out just now

How do you not notice that someone is lurking unless you are ignoring them? If you're paying attention to them, then you should notice at least how active they're being.

I just... don't, I guess? Triangle wasn't obviously lurking in the same way Mattman or Kondi were where there was literally nothing to go on, so it never occurred to me that she was lurking. In any event, not noticing she was lurking is hardly the same thing as completely ignoring her.

Okay, fair enough on this. But the main problem with your reads is that when they do change, they change without a thought process. For example, look at my FoN read. I came into the game a bit unsure, so applied pressure, made demands, threaten to vote. Then, after a little while of exchange, that evolved to a town read. You did this with your Mattman vote, but it's the only time when I can trace your thought processes at all. This needs to change, or I won't be able to see myself voting anywhere else for the rest of the game until scum kill me.

I don't agree that they change with a thought process.

My D1 switch on Pine was due to his arguing with town-reads on Implosion when he thought the scum was elsewhere
My switch on you and Reck and re-switch on Pine was because I don't think scum was bussing Triangle
My switch on Force, Sleepy and Furc was because there must be scum among at least one of them if scum wasn't bussing Triangle

Force lynch? Force lynch.

VOTE: Force of Nature

[Yates]

My reasons were outlined before the SKrew foul up. [Sorry about that, btw]

Vote: Force of Nature

[SodaSpirit17]

Sorry for the lack of me at the end of the day, but what the hell? How did SK get randomly lynched! Haha. I think FoN is scum, but before I vote, I want him to claim.

[SodaSpirit17]

Also I hate Yates again after that quickhammer with little to no explaination and not letting the suspect defend himself....

[Force of Nature]

So you think I'm systematically killing off people who think I'm town???
Also Nacho Neighborized me last night, which would mean I knew he wasn't a viable PR anymore.
He also neighborized Pine N1, in case anybody wanted proof.
His top scumpicks were Reck and Uphill.
VOTE: Reck


And yes, Yates quickhammering was a dumbass epicmafia move.

[Force of Nature]

Specifically I said I thought Reck was scum and wanted a cop to target him so I didn't have to fight so hard to lynch him.
His reply was that a cop wasn't necessary and he was pretty sure Reck's scum.