Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[DrippingGoofball]

My ability gives an ability which will be an ability at a later date
it is unknown to us
it could be protown or proscum to lynch me on this information
I almost want to vote myself because of this, to be honest

VOTE: Furcolow

[EtherealCookie]

Yes, well, I thought we had agreed that we wouldn't go around willy nilly claiming. Does it help that town knows that you have that secret ability? Not really. So why are we claiming it?
Also, nothing to say about me, Chkflip, not even a read? When I was one of the people who was most suspicious of the player you replaced in? How odd.

[Junpei]

MoI: What is the Zang tell? Is committing the Zang tell enough to lynch Ghostin to you?

All the flak against a Fourseen lynch is "he's too stupid to be scum", or "wheres scum intent!?". Here's question for you: If every post I make is pure utter nonsense, and shows a clear lack of complex thought or logic, does that make me town? I believe in innocent until proven guilty, that is golden; but mafia is different, in mafia sometimes you have to lynch the person who shows no signs of guilt, but no signs of innocence. That said, Fourseen has shown some guilt, but you keep ignoring that fact.

Furcolow saying "I thought someone else had said it somewhere..." and then never responding to where he knew of it, is suspicious. I suspect that Furcolow could be on a 6man scum team. Yes he was in the last x01, but I don't think that was what he was thinking of when he said that.

Hider is not as strong as you're implying, are we thinking of the same role? It doesn't confirm town well, and it doesn't confirm scum because we have to specifically direct it, which is dangerous.

Furcolow going "it's not smart to outguess the mod" and then assume 6 scum earlier on is interesting as well as his ability claim which didn't need to happen whatsoever.

[Magister Ludi]

On second thought:

Unvote: nopointactingup

(Yeah, that was pretty hard, heh) I find on rereading that I have a hard time swallowing his last several posts came from scum. He is too confrontational and unconcerned with his own survival. Reading it this afternoon, I can easily see a townie making and thinking those thoughts.

(And he has an ability, which is useful later on to weed out possible scum connections, but that is a secondary consideration)

Time to think

[Magister Ludi]

Let me quickly explain hider. It is powerful for a few reasons.

It can hide behind town and confirm town, while making it so that if the hider is directly shot, he doesn't die. A hider can come out on day three or four with two or three innocents (because hiders die if hiding behind scum, so all successful hides are behind town). A solid block of three or so confirmed town is scary for any scum team. Finding innocents as a regular cop is just as powerful as a guilty.

It can find scum. If it dies, scum! Well you might ask, how would we know where he hid??

Either explicitly told 'i am hiding behind X. If I die, X is scum'. Hiders usually resolve before all other actions in NAR, so that is a confirmed guilty there. If town can trade off 1v1's all day, we will win handily.

Implicitly. Breadcrumb who you are hiding behind. Make it only obvious to people after you die and flip hider, because then they will go back to look. A person's name out of place. A weird sentence. It is not that hard.

IT is quite a powerful role.

[Junpei]

Let me quickly explain hider. It is powerful for a few reasons.

It can hide behind town and confirm town, while making it so that if the hider is directly shot, he doesn't die. A hider can come out on day three or four with two or three innocents (because hiders die if hiding behind scum, so all successful hides are behind town).

A solid block of three or so confirmed town is scary for any scum team. Finding innocents as a regular cop is just as powerful as a guilty.

It can find scum. If it dies, scum! Well you might ask, how would we know where he hid??

Either explicitly told 'i am hiding behind X. If I die, X is scum'.

Hiders usually resolve before all other actions in NAR,

so that is a confirmed guilty there. If town can trade off 1v1's all day, we will win handily.

Implicitly.

Breadcrumb who you are hiding behind

. Make it only obvious to people after you die and flip hider, because then they will go back to look. A person's name out of place. A weird sentence. It is not that hard.

IT is quite a powerful role.

I'll go 1, 2, 3 that address the bold going north to south.

1) But the hider is different every night, so it's like 3 innocent children, of which there could be 1 or more scum.
2) Usually? What NAR was used last game? Where is the most common NAR?
3) I've seen two types of breadcrumbs. The first is the type I immediately notice, and I think to myself "scum probably saw this too... ugh", and the second is the type I never notice until the person who crumbed pointed it out. So I don't quite see the power in breadcrumbing for after death.

[Magister Ludi]

hmm?
1. There can't be scum that the person hid behind, or the hider would have died. Sure, the hider himself could have been scum, but all the innocents would be town. And the best part is, even if the hider does hide behind scum, the ability is still alive (I believe), so we get a confirmed guilty and get to keep confirming innocents.
2. Wiki NAR. Its standard resolution, with hiding coming first before everything else.
3. Play more games. I've been in several where it was obvious after a hider died who they hid behind. Check out kdub's neon genesis mafia, pomegrante crumbed perfectly her hide behind vollkan scum.

~~~
Why did Furc post so much in a row? It pushed Magna's case off the current page.

And that was a good case.

Vote: Ghostlin

[Furcolow]

HERE IT IS ML

"

Why I Think Ghostlin is Scum

–

Elements from Workdawg

–

A few reads so far.
Crypto is working his way back to town IMO. He' active and stirring things up. I'm a big fan of that generally.
MasterLudi is rubbing me the wrong way. Refusing to explain tells is annoying.
Stringer is mildly suspicious... but I'm not sure it's very much.

This is the post that dinged my scumdar and began my back and forth with Workdawg.

Here he gives crypto Town cred for being active and stirring things up. Nothing outwardly wrong with that.

Then he dings MagisterLudi for refusing to explain tells. He specified that this meant this means Magister calls someone scummy but refuses to say why. Which is what Crypto had been doing all during the day. Crypto was asked about his vote on me by someone and never elaborated. His elaboration on why warrior was scummy can be summed as gut.

So it’s Cognitive Dissoance – MagisterLudi is scum for a behavior that he wants to completely ignore in Crypto.

The fence-sitting on Stringer is based on my Stringer as scum read.

Elements from Ghostlin

–

In post 391 Ghostlin presents his replace-in reads.

He calls out the following people –

Fourseen – He attacks him for his vote / unvote of Crypto.
MagisterLudi – He attacks post 264 and shows how all six paragraphs are incorrect on multiple levels. Also says that 265 is ‘backwardsly hypocritical’
Warriormode – That he is opportunistic for his vote on Toogeloo for giving out ‘anti-Town’ information
Sinestro – Attacks his use of sheeping as a scum-tell in 284 and says his scum-hunting is fake (or lacks actual scum-hunting)

Who does he vote? Junpei because he has ‘too many’ scum reads and in this one game Fate had reads like that also and they hung him and Fate was scum.

So he’s provided reasons for all the above listed players (and note he calls out at least 5 players as suspect which doesn’t really jibe with his ‘too many scum-read’ stance) but votes Junpei for Fate-meta. And poor Fate meta at that since Fate plays like that all the time. In essence his problem with Junpei is a single game of a different player.

I find that scummy.

1) Because the guy who's FoSing everyone active I have a really hard time believing is Town.

2) Because he's not really got enough votes yet and I want to draw attention and discussion that way.
3) Because even though I believe you may be scum, Momma always said to choose your battles.

Number 1 is highlighted. This is the core of his case on Junpei. Note the language choice (hyperbole on the number of suspicions of Junpei).

Also, in review I don’t like Number 3 much either. Why avoid pressuring MagisterLudi (who he thinks is scum) because he wants to be smart and ‘choose your battles’? That shows survivalist tendencies (doesn’t want to attack a player he might find daunting) and is antithetical to the process of finding multiple scum in a large game.

So...MoI, you're saying it's OK behavior for someone to have eight to ten running scumreads at once, versus you know, five or six intelligent scum reads? Because the first is bluntly what I'm accusing Junpei of. If that's true, then you and I have different definitions of scummy behavior.

Here begins my questioning of him regarding his Junpei is scum read. We’ve already discussed how Junpei only actually had 7 reads of possible scum (8-10 was again hyperbole and is not really much different than Ghostlin’s initial list of 5).

Ghostlin then never addresses how having multiple scum reads on Day 1 of a Large Theme game is inherently scummy / shows scum intent. Referring to a single Fate game isn’t evidence … it’s cherry picking a situation that suits his reads.

Now at 558 Ghostlin opens up his ‘Furc is scum’ attack. This brings his ‘scum reads Day 1’ to six. Which again conflicts with his stance on Junpei. And he votes him.

And at this time he moved from a wagon of five (Junpei, who before his vote shift was tied with Stringer for the top wagon) to a wagon of two including his vote. At that point the game was within 5 days of the original deadline and no-one was near lynch. Hardly seems like the voting behavior of someone who has an honest scum read on a candidate (Junpei) and wants to make sure he sees his lynch through.

Review Ghostlin’s ISO – he really doesn’t push Junpei at all after voting him. In fact the only reason he revisits his vote is due to my questioning when Junpei directs questions his way.

Because for this particular Day 1, I like kicking as many wasps nest as possible; it's another player that's not getting the exposure he should.

Plus, Fourseen's acutally still playing this game.

Should push come to shove, I'll get on a more poplous wagon.

I bring this up for two reasons –

1. To again highlight the Cognitive Dissonance in Ghostlin’s play. Here he says “I like to kick as many wasp nests as possible”. The message here is that spreading around suspicion where you think it needs to go is a Town mindset. But this directly conflicts with his stated “Junpei has too many suspicions, I can’t believe Town takes that approach” stance.
2. The bolded is interesting – why does activity have anything to do with Fourseen’s being a good lynch when you called him scum earlier?

I acutally don't agree with the nopoint/SB wagons enough to not lynch them as a compromise, and if I were to jump somewhere, it'd be on ML or Junpei, which I've already received flax for one.

He’ll jump to MagisterLudi who he hasn’t questioned or scum-hunted since his initial replace in. And who at this point had two votes and wasn’t a viable wagon 4 days to deadline.

That brings us up to date with Ghostlin’s reaction to my calling him scum was very much outsized."

[Furcolow]

above post brought to you by MoI
I do believe scum push posts off pages
I do not want that

[Furcolow]

Yes, well, I thought we had agreed that we wouldn't go around willy nilly claiming. Does it help that town knows that you have that secret ability? Not really. So why are we claiming it?
Also, nothing to say about me, Chkflip, not even a read? When I was one of the people who was most suspicious of the player you replaced in? How odd.

It could greatly help, especially if it is a virus mechanic, or a bomb

[Furcolow]

I DONT KNOW WHAT MY ABILITY DOES, JUNPEI

[Junpei]

Lol? The idea that you tried to "hide" MoI's post by spamming the page is ridiculous, not sure why you wasted two more posts and a lot of space like that. You didn't even properly quote it.

You think that you have a disguised-virus ability that only tells some holders? If that's the case then we'll hear about it when that person actually gets the role. If you're telling the truth, then the only reason to claim is to protect yourself later on when you have to claim your ability.

[Junpei]

Oh, and Furcolow, who in this game said that there were 6 scum? You said someone in this game mentioned it. Who was it?

[FourseenCircumstance]

Not pass to* i mean to say who i use my ability on
It is called Motivator
I wish I knew what it would grant

Sounds like an inventor.

[Kdub]

All this waffling close to the deadline is interesting, but not productive. Of the people who were OK with killing nopoint, a few of jumped off the wagon but haven't given much indication that they have changed their mind about him. Ludi, you're saying you think he is town now, but I've stated that I'm going to shoot him and you are not actively doing anything to dissuade me. It's not a good mindset - "I know this guy is going to die, I suddenly have a town read on him, but I'll go attack someone else without doing anything to prevent his death". If nobody is going to give me a good reason otherwise, I'm still killing nopoint. I'll give people ~6 hours or so from this post. If something warrants it, I can hold off until closer to the deadline, but then people might panic and quicklynch if I take it too close, so I don't want to wait until the absolute last minute.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, I don't think you should shoot him. This could be a giant egg on my face if i'm found out to be wrong later in the game, but I strongly discourage you from shooting him. I think how people act when they are close to death reveals more than all sorts of talking beforehand ever could.

I'm sort of scrambling here to find someone who I think is scum, which is pretty unlike myself so late in the game. Magna seems townier now than ever, warrior has flaked until wed and heat has gone off there, nopoint I think is town, and I'm not as sure on slysly anymore (considering he might legitimately be busy)

What I'm trying to do now is speed read this thread to gather myself again. I think I was taken down a route of thinking people who were being confrontational with my own slot were scum, when in reality most scum aren't confrontational at all. So thats where I'm at right now.

[PeregrineV]

I'm ... normal?

Vote:Sinestro!

@Implosion: I'm okay with what you're saying but

Q: Were all abilities available from the start?

A: All abilities existing within this game are present from the start of the game. No new abilities will be introduced after game start.

what if there are abilities that disappear by itself in this game? sorta like 1 shot 2 shot. It would surely affect how the massclaim turn out. This didn't really happen the last game so I'm concerned the mod might get smarter

Well, you acted surprised bout being normal in your first post. What was that referring to, as you are claiming an ability?

I see you did ask about a disposable ability, so there is consistency.

[SlySly]

If nobody is going to give me a good reason otherwise, I'm still killing nopoint. I'll give people ~6 hours or so from this post.

I think the discussion arising from your claim has just about ran its course. Assuming you have made your final decision, I'm not sure waiting longer is going to bring additional benefit to the town. I'm not against a nopoint hit, but I still think you should hit one of the lurkers I pointed out before, preferably one of the ones that surfaced after your claim as that confirms they were actively lurking. The unsurfaced could be scum smart enough not to surface or they could just be absent and headed for replacement. A 6 hour wait is fine, but I think it's time to see your shot and a flip so we can focus on a proper lynch discussion without vig distraction.

-----------

DGB I have meta on your slot, sorry. I know you're scum.

I HAVE META ON CRYPTO

You've brought this up twice and asked for the vig to target DGB, yet it's never been worthy of your vote. What gives?

--------------

@DrunkenPiper: The last game had a scumteam of six.

The OP of x01 shows a count of five for the scumteam. Is it wrong?

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 1x23 ::

Stringer Bell (5) -

EtherealCookie, FourseenCircumstance, Bunnylover, RedCoyote, Furcolow

Junpei (3) -

SlySly, springlullaby, Ghostlin

FourseenCircumstance (3) -

Junpei, Sinestro, chkflip

Furcolow (3) -

Stringer Bell, Drunken Piper, DrippingGoofball

nopointinactingup (2) -

Toogeloo, implosion

Ghostlin (2) -

MagnaofIllusion, Magister Ludi

Magister Ludi (1) -

nopointinactingup

Toogeloo (1) -

warriormode

RedCoyote (1) -

wazzatron

Not Voting (4) -

whispersilk, Kdub, projectmatt, PeregrineV

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2011-11-08 23:07:02).

People to be prodded: whispersilk. Warriormode remains on V/LA till tomorrow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The OP of x01 shows a count of five for the scumteam. Is it wrong?

You are forgetting DGB there who was Serial Killer, which is scum.

[SlySly]

The OP of x01 shows a count of five for the scumteam. Is it wrong?

You are forgetting DGB there who was Serial Killer, which is scum.

I agree that SK is not town, but I don't agree that the SK is part of the scumteam.

[DrippingGoofball]

I approve of the bolded being dayvig'ed.

QUARANTINED FILES

ZO1739422 -

FourseenCircumstance

[Online.] >>> not liking recent lurkage.
AB3817120 -

Drunken Piper

[Online.] >>> I hate poets. Not townie rhymes.
GH8479717 - PeregrineV [Online.] >>> getting a little better.
HI9210223 - Bunnylover [Online.] >>> below townie expectations.
DZ2705139 -

Furcolow

[Online.] >>> does like to create random disturbances as scum.
JW2804010 -

nopointinactingup

[Online.] >>> small improvement

HOSTILE SCRIPTS

PZ5915512 -

chkflip/diddin

[Online.] >>> chkflip's intro post didn't help this lurkerslot.
UG9095648 -

whispersilk

[Online.] >>> must die.
NV9891464 -

RedCoyote

[Online.] >>> Takes a tumble. Pretends to care, weird posts.

"Good lynches

in no particular order

:"

is scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I agree that SK is not town, but I don't agree that the SK is part of the scumteam.

It's an irrelevant semantic distinction. There were 6 total scum in the last game. Scum is a generic term covering Mafia and Serial Killer factions.

[SlySly]

It's an irrelevant semantic distinction. There were 6 total scum in the last game. Scum is a generic term covering Mafia and Serial Killer factions.

That will be hard to determine now that you've answered a question aimed at RC. He said scumteam, that is not a generic term that includes an SK. I wanted to determine if he made a mistake or was purposely being misleading.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That will be hard to determine now that you've answered a question aimed at RC. He said scumteam, that is not a generic term that includes an SK. I wanted to determine if he made a mistake or was purposely being misleading.

Do you think there would be any potential gain for him as scum to be 'deceptive' about the number of Mafia members in a game he played as a member of the Mafia and is easily publicly accessable? What possibly could that gain be?