Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[chkflip]

Sorry, but the "cumulative post" would take longer and would make me appear as if I were active-lurking. No thanks.

Magister

, I'd really like the question I asked here answered. Even a "that's irrelevant at this point, imo" will suffice.

Side note: Eruci is a BEAST. <3

[Junpei]

Longer than 5+ days? Also caring more about how you look than effectively scumhunting and portraying the results in a neat manner is a survivalist tactic.

[Kdub]

Hey Andy, when I said this:

Andy's lack of comment on nopoint in his catchup post is notable, given the nature of the discussion at the moment.

I was doing more than simply making an innocent observation.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 1x24 ::

Furcolow (5) -

Stringer Bell, Drunken Piper, DrippingGoofball, Ghostlin, FourseenCircumstance

Stringer Bell (4) -

EtherealCookie, Bunnylover, RedCoyote, Furcolow

Junpei (3) -

SlySly, springlullaby, Sinestro

FourseenCircumstance (2) -

Junpei, chkflip

nopointinactingup (2) -

Toogeloo, implosion

Ghostlin (2) -

MagnaofIllusion, Magister Ludi

Magister Ludi (1) -

nopointinactingup

Toogeloo (1) -

warriormode

RedCoyote (1) -

wazzatron

Not Voting (4) -

whispersilk, Kdub, projectmatt, PeregrineV

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2011-11-08 23:07:02).

[chkflip]

It would take longer than breaking it up like I am. Don't like it? Boo-hoo guy. Skip my posts, I really don't care to have this stupid back-and-forth over your opinion on my playstyle.

KTHXBAI

[Junpei]

Your playstyle is being survivalist and doing things that make no logical sense(scumhunting page by page, but reading later pages as well)?

[Magister Ludi]

To respond to chk, was this your question:

Magister Ludi, what about warriormode made him scummier than fourseen as of 224? Hell, do you feel the same now?

I thought warrior's initial post was terrible, like he was scum sprouting joking nonsense in thread. I didn't have a strong a read on forseen. I believe forseen is town not really because he is playing so pro-town, but because his wagon had all the hallmarks of a wagon on town by scum. I would rather see warrior die and forseen live, still, yes.

Why was this question at all important?

[chkflip]

This is the last post I'm making about this.

I replaced in, so I missed about 25ish pages. I'm going to read those. I'm also not going to get behind, so yes I'm going to read pages as they form as well.

Being "survivalist" is subject to opinion, and I'll let you have that opinion because this conversation is going nowhere extremely fast.

How is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Do you seriously think I'm scum because of my play-style? Or are you wasting my time for no good reason?

PEDIT: L-L-Ludi! It's not super important, but I was reading and the post kind of struck me odd how you reacted to it, so I just wanted further clarification. That and I don't like asking questions just to be ignored. Call it a pet-peeve I guess.

[Magister Ludi]

Organizing my thoughts:

VP7633971 - MagnaofIllusion [Online.] : Initially felt scum, but now town. If he is scum, he is playing more towney than any other town.
FY2944752 - implosion [Online.] : I have good feelings towards him, but
QN3377293 - EtherealCookie* [Online.]: a ball of null
NV9891464 - RedCoyote [Online.] : more null
LV1086665 - Ghostlin [Workdawg] [Online.] : voting this guy
KD4483656 - springlullaby** [Online.] : unsure
YN9933507 - warriormode* [Online.] : scum
UG9095648 - whispersilk** [Online.] : lurking. needs to die probably.
DZ2705139 - Furcolow [Online.] : very erratic. null
JW2804010 - nopointinactingup [Online.] : Town
PZ5915512 - chkflip [diddin] [Online.] : not enamored with him
TI1875313 - SlySly [Online.] : maybe town? Town side of null
IW8573414 - Junpei [Online.] : town
XX4698015 - DrippingGoofball [crypto] [Online.] : Town
WE5874016 - Sinestro** [Online.] : town.
GH8479717 - PeregrineV [Online.] : erm this guy is in this game??
SN5795818 - Kdub [Online.] : town
BT1357719 - Stringer Bell [Online.] : town
AB3817120 - Drunken Piper [Online.] : not feeling town
ED5235621 - projectmatt [Online.] : Reread scum
ZO1739422 - FourseenCircumstance* [Online.] : Town
HI9210223 - Bunnylover* [Online.] : Town
RX3447924 - wazzatron [Online.] : not town
CY3601025 - Toogeloo [Online.] : Town

New and improved Ludi scum reads:
Ghostlin
projectmatt
warriormode

Anti-town behavior in full effect:
whispersilk
peregrineV

And magna, yeah, I change my reads if things and reads in the game change.

This absolutely reeks. “I have no more scum reads and I was fooled because I think everyone who suspects me is Scum because I’m that bad a player.” That’s what you are saying and I don’t buy it in the least.

I never said I had no more scum reads, only that I need to reevaluate. If you are town, you should happy if I start to read you as town. What is dangerous to scum is a block of townies who can mutually read each other as town, and start acting accordingly.

I'm not saying I was fooled, only that my reads may have been off. (And If I was fooled, and came out of it, all the better.)

[FourseenCircumstance]

so we are within the 24 hour mark on the day, now the what ifs are coming into play, what-if the SK claim was a hoax and just a means to get people flustered and claims on the table, and the deadline hits...

It's now or never Kdub.

[Magister Ludi]

WTF did you just say?

[FourseenCircumstance]

I am just suspicious as to why Kdub waited and waited and waited till the last minute. What happens if he is for real which is the most likely case, and he looses power for the new 20 hours? Then what happens.... we are kinda putting all our eggs in one basket here that is all.

[Kdub]

I suppose there's not much more that's going to be said. I had already made this decision a few hours ago, and there weren't significant objections outside of Ludi.

Kill: nopointinactingup

I'm comfortable with this decision.

[nopointinactingup]

Kdub is scum. It was his decision to vig me, not the town's decision.

ML could be scum with Kdub if scum had day-talk. They might have planned this wisy washy distancing shit.

Another thought. Andy is town IMO

Good luck

[Magister Ludi]

I don't think that was the best shot at all.

[Kdub]

It's a bit curious that nopoint posted nothing all day even when I indicated I was likely going to kill him, then suddenly shows up minutes after I do it.

Whatever, no reason to argue it now since it's done. We just wait for the mod to show up and post the flip.

[DrippingGoofball]

nopoint is sounding town now. Too little too late.

Oh well.

Let's move on to the chore of stringing up Furcolow. He has a third party role.

[MagnaofIllusion]

nopoint is sounding town now. Too little too late.

Oh well.

Let's move on to the chore of stringing up Furcolow. He has a third party role.

1. Absolutely hate this ‘oh well he’s Town’ after your starting the wagon on NoPoint and then coasting along not doing anything about it.
2. Explain exactly where Furc claimed third party. I want a quote or a post number. This is starting to smell like the DGB from Atomic Mafia who made bad pushes and was scum. You don’t get any sort of pass in not providing support for your statements.

--

It's a bit curious that nopoint posted nothing all day even when I indicated I was likely going to kill him, then suddenly shows up minutes after I do it.

Whatever, no reason to argue it now since it's done. We just wait for the mod to show up and post the flip.

Why is it curious? If he flips scum everyone is going to ignore that last post as WIFOM bait anyway. If he flips Town there are any number of explanations why he didn’t post before that point including lack of access.

--

Alright, give me links to show me the difference between scum who act similar to fourseen, and town that do.

I don’t have time to run down tons of source material for you.

What quickly comes to mind for me is kdowns – go read Mini Theme 70s Show Mafia and Large Theme Video Game Upick Mafia. For fun don’t look at his alignment in either before reading and decide for yourself.

Read Day 1 is all you really need to do. Specifically look at the movitvation for actions in those games and how he is treated by other players. His play / posting is pretty darn bad in both but one shows scum intent and the other doesn’t. Plus looking at how other players treat VIs is also a good way to judge their role.

As for hider, now that you've explained it I see your point. I did read your Ghostlin case, and I determined that I did not know what the Zang tell was. I'm not going to say "Oh, town v town, ah yes scum!", because I'm not a sheep like the idiots you are claiming to be town, explain to me the SCUM MOTIVATION behind going "X conversation is town v town to me".

The Zang tell shows scum intent as follows –

When a player calls a conflict Town versus Town it they ostensibly have read both players as Town. The Zang Tell is most clear and strongest early in a game (Day 1)– when little or no flips have happened. An uniformed majority player is least likely to have the solid Town reads early on to definitively say that a conflict is Town versus Town.

Scum players, ostensibly knowing who is Town / not Mafia, have motivation to take the stance.

1. In the case of where no Partner is involved – it’s buddying to both players (showing they have a correct Town read on said players) and looking to establish ‘Town Cred’ for correctly reading those players as Town early when they eventually flip.
2. In the case where a Partner is involved – it’s an attempt to defuse the conflict that might cost the player a partner if it escalates and buddying to the Town player.

Scenario 1 is more often seen than Scenario 2 but both happen.

Now later in the game calling a conflict Town versus Town really isn’t a strong tell at all given that reads become more and more established. That said scum do use the technique later – see Spyrex ‘settling’ the Fate / myself dispute Day 3 of Video Game Upick.

--

@Magister

– Why haven’t you championed for Warrior to be shot at all given your response to chkflip at 831?

And magna, yeah, I change my reads if things and reads in the game change.

As you should. That said your rapid reversal on NoPoint given you didn’t really ever give any reasons for your scum read is suspect.

I never said I had no more scum reads, only that I need to reevaluate. If you are town,

you should happy if I start to read you as town

. What is dangerous to scum is a block of townies who can mutually read each other as town, and start acting accordingly.

I'm not saying I was fooled, only that my reads may have been off. (And If I was fooled, and came out of it, all the better.)

The bolded I don’t like. That combined with your stance that I’m ‘playing Townier than any Townier’ stinks of buddying.

Why did you suspect me in the first place other than my calling you out? Please direct me to posts where you explain your read reasoning.

[RedCoyote]

Why did Fur even claim?

Unvote

;

vote: Furcolow

I guess he forgot our initial plan. EC, I'm with you. I have no idea why everyone feels the need to up and claim all of a sudden.

Kdub, you asked me earlier about the Hider ability. I just meant to say that it's just as likely for SB scum to have it as SB town would. One of the rules states that there are no inherent "scum" or "town" abilities.

[DrippingGoofball]

nopoint is sounding town now. Too little too late.

Oh well.

Let's move on to the chore of stringing up Furcolow. He has a third party role.

1. Absolutely hate this ‘oh well he’s Town’ after your starting the wagon on NoPoint and then coasting along not doing anything about it.

Hey. nopoint was scum. Until he was shot. It happens.

2. Explain exactly where Furc claimed third party. I want a quote or a post number.

Oh come on. You're kidding, right? Just iso him. He claimed some bizarre stuff for no reason. He's third party. He doesn't have a normal role. We're lynching him.

[Kdub]

It's a bit curious that nopoint posted nothing all day even when I indicated I was likely going to kill him, then suddenly shows up minutes after I do it.

Whatever, no reason to argue it now since it's done. We just wait for the mod to show up and post the flip.

Why is it curious? If he flips scum everyone is going to ignore that last post as WIFOM bait anyway. If he flips Town there are any number of explanations why he didn’t post before that point including lack of access.

That's why I said there's no reason to argue it at this point. The timing of nopoint's post and his lack of comment both before and after that does make me feel a bit more confident in the shot though.

Hey. nopoint was scum. Until he was shot. It happens.

Wait, didn't you put him on your town list earlier?

Meh, I still think Furcolow is town. Furc gonna Furc. What do you think his win condition is that would make him more likely to play in this way?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey. nopoint was scum. Until he was shot. It happens.

Nah, not good enough. NoPoint hasn’t even flipped. Your initial vote on him was devoid of anything I can follow and you coasted along doing nothing to push it in any way. Then Kdub spends several days saying “Hey anyone have objections”. Not a peep from you. Kdub then shoots him and you pop up saying “Oh he’s Town. Too bad”.

That’s what I expect from scum DGB.

Oh come on. You're kidding, right? Just iso him. He claimed some bizarre stuff for no reason. He's third party. He doesn't have a normal role. We're lynching him.

Oh come on. You’re kidding me right? You make wild, unsupportable statements and when asked to justify them you say “Look at his ISO” that’s crap.

What about his role isn’t normal? He’s specifically claimed he has to pass it. He’s claimed to be a Motivator which is probably some sort of Enabling role which wouldn’t tell him explicitly what it does since it is target dependant.

No, your reasons stink like Limburger cheese that has sat out in the sun for weeks on end.

Question

– if I pressure you are you going to flake out like Atomic?

[Kdub]

Kdub, you asked me earlier about the Hider ability. I just meant to say that it's just as likely for SB scum to have it as SB town would. One of the rules states that there are no inherent "scum" or "town" abilities.

OK, but that didn't really answer my concern. I pointed out that you potentially slipped by implying that SB's claim revealed an ability to the scum. This could only be true if you knew that SB was town. You still have not addressed this specific point.

Looking back at your previous posts, I also dislike your attitude toward my day vig. You initially tried to paint me in a bad light for choosing to use the vig in the way I did, then when I made a statement indicating suspicion of you, you backed off and say (paraphrased) "hey, I think you're town so you can use it any way you want, no problem". It sounds like an attempt at appeasement because you might have been afraid I would turn my gun on you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Kdub -

Who do you suspect if NoPoint flips Scum?
Who do you suspect if NoPoint flips Town?

[Kdub]

If he flips town, I'd look more closely at people like Ludi or DGB (might be others, I'll have to look back) who tried to claim town reads on him after the fact. If he flips scum, I'd focus more on people who either avoided comment or took weak positions on him (not wanting to outright defend him in case he died, but not supporting his death either in case I changed my mind).

And regardless of what he flips, I still suspect FC and RC for independent reasons.