Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Well, for one, in this case lewSK's best bet'd probably be to try and shoot scum and then claim it as a vig shot.

Whoops, sorry. I meant to say that he apparently kills pets arbitrarily.

Arbitrarily how?

[Amrun]

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that his alignment cannot yet be determined for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

You can lynch SK day 1, but if you never lynch scum after that, you still lose. It's much better to lynch SCUM. An SK lynch is a very-little-information flip. Town can harness him to do their bidding under threat of death, as well. If he disobeys, he dies.

For example, tonight, we can tell him who to target.

[Ghostlin]

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

[Amrun]

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

...And? lol

[Untrod Tripod]

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that

his alignment cannot yet be determined

for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

your logic:
we cannot prove he's town therefore he MUST be scum

ladies and gentlemen, it's the argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy in the wild! shh! don't disturb it or it will run away and we can't make fun of it.

[Ghostlin]

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

...And? lol

2 and 3 are scum roles. There is no middle ground if you believe in his claim there, it's gotta be one of the three.

Also, do you think just dogs or cats exist in this game?

[Sotty7]

I'm still not understanding why you want to give him a night of mafia-talking.

1) He posted something suspicious and got called on it.
2) He flustered under questioning and tried to mountanize something minor as a desperate distraction.
3) Made a false claim.
4) OMGUSed his main accuser as scum (and no one else)
5) Changed his claim.
6) Changed flavor of claim to match details that didn't make sense.
7) Avoided answering direct questions about his claim that didn't make sense.
8) Heavily pushing a "just let me live one night" plan when his role clearly isn't helpful enough to warrant that plan even if his claim wasn't crap to begin with.

How are you *that* blind to his scumminess?

This is probably the most compelling case on why we should lynch Lew, his behavior leading up to and after the claim is just terrible. Making excuses to keep him alive "just in case" seem poor when Lew himself isn't willing to actually do anything to help the town.

Yes, this is an intent to hammer.

[Amrun]

For the record, I'm not arguing that he is town. I'm arguing that

his alignment cannot yet be determined

for sure and that he is not the smartest lynch for today.

Why would you leave a third party role like SK alive on Day 1?

your logic:
we cannot prove he's town therefore he MUST be scum

ladies and gentlemen, it's the argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy in the wild! shh! don't disturb it or it will run away and we can't make fun of it.

I'm confused; was this directed at me?

Consider for a minute that you absolutely believe Le's claim. Your options are:
1) Limited modified Town Vig.
2) Limited modified SK (only wins when he's the only cat alive).
3) Limited modified Scum Vig (which could happen depending on the protection roles in Town).

...And? lol

2 and 3 are scum roles. There is no middle ground if you believe in his claim there, it's gotta be one of the three.

Also, do you think just dogs or cats exist in this game?

don't know don't care

[Untrod Tripod]

ftr I think if lew flips scum, Ghostlin comes out looking worse than Amrun. Amrun's reactions look like misguided town to me.

just want to say that before we get a flip

@Amrun
No. It was at Ghostlin. Your argument was that since we can't determine his alignment, it's probably safer to just leave him be until we can get a better idea. Right? I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think that's a townie reaction.

[Sotty7]

I also hate that the last page or so has been heavy in the set up spec. I feel Lew is totally distracting us all from scum hunting and instead we'll bicker about "optimal strategies".

[Quilford]

Well, for one, in this case lewSK's best bet'd probably be to try and shoot scum and then claim it as a vig shot.

Whoops, sorry. I meant to say that he apparently kills pets arbitrarily.

Arbitrarily how?

Pets' alignments are randomised and yet he only kills cats.

Look, he could be town. But with the pet in question having passed away, the role being described as an assassin, all the things lewarcher's done today, and another alive pet, I don't think he is.

But now I'm actually uncomfortable lynching him. .______________.

[Untrod Tripod]

I also hate that the last page or so has been heavy in the set up spec. I feel Lew is totally distracting us all from scum hunting and instead we'll bicker about "optimal strategies".

well the whole "what do we do about all the setup speculation" question is something we should delve into tomorrow once we have some flips. not all setup spec is created equal and I don't think we should decide who is derailing and who isn't until we know more.

[Sotty7]

But now I'm actually uncomfortable lynching him. .______________.

Why?

[Amrun]

@AmrunNo. It was at Ghostlin. Your argument was that since we can't determine his alignment, it's probably safer to just leave him be until we can get a better idea. Right? I'm not saying I agree with it, but I think that's a townie reaction.

Yeah, I am. I just got confused there for a sec.


Sotty, I agree; let's just move on and lynch llama. However, I don't think it has been a total waste of time. When a group of people are pushing a third party lynch, there's usually at LEAST one scum in the bunch.

Right now, my pick for that scum is Ghostlin.


p-edit:

But he still picks who to target... So it's not arbitrary. It's a LIMITED VIG.

As for the pet being alive or dead, that is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. We were told when submitting pets that you could submit a living or passed pet.

[Vi]

Posting to say:

*Please stop what you are doing for a moment and congratulate Kublai Khan. He will enjoy the privilege of never getting lynched in this game.
*This SK speculation, started by xRECKONERx and

simultaneously

called scummy and endorsed by Llamarble (who is progressively becoming more and more unfashionably late with fulfilling his promise to say something that couldn't be paraphrased as "I'm scum, lynch me now"), is a dead end. He's scum, or he's not. In an ideal world this is the last time anyone will post the acronym "SK" Today.
*There are two BIG things going against lewarcher right now. He has given up entirely. I was hoping he would put something into this new leash on life, but the time has passed and he has been unable to fabricate a single read beyond OMGUS, let alone any kind of decent plea.

Yay being cut by a bunch of people while putting this post together. I'm waking up at something like 4:15 AM tomorrow morning. If Sotty7 hasn't hammered by then, I will.

Also I'm not seeing Ghostlin as scum. :dealwithit:

[Amrun]

jesus christ, someone fucking unvote

[Amrun]

I also want Kublai Kahn's response to my post 288.

[Quilford]

But now I'm actually uncomfortable lynching him. .______________.

Why?

A general feeling of unease.

As for the pet being alive or dead, that is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. We were told when submitting pets that you could submit a living or passed pet.

That clearly explains why the pet being alive or dead is totally irrelevant, thanks.

But he still picks who to target... So it's not arbitrary. It's a LIMITED VIG.

IT'S ARBITRARY WHO HE KILLS. NO MATTER WHO HE PICKS, WHETHER HE THINKS THEY'RE TOWN OR SCUM, HE WILL DIE UNLESS THEY'RE A CAT. HOW THE SHIT IS THIS FAIR ON HIM UNLESS HE HAS SOME WAY TO DISCERN WHO SOMEONE'S PET IS, HMM?

[Vi]

jesus christ, someone fucking unvote

*There are two BIG things going against lewarcher right now. He has given up entirely. I was hoping he would put something into this new leash on life, but the time has passed and he has been unable to fabricate a single read beyond OMGUS, let alone any kind of decent plea.

I respectfully decline.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Just look at the vanilla vig (i.e. could only vig vanillas) in PYP5, Quilford. Roles were distributed by a draft system, so alignments of the vanillas was fairly random (as it turned out, none of the scum were vanilla) - still a completely valid role and beneficial too.

IT'S ARBITRARY WHO HE KILLS. NO MATTER WHO HE PICKS, WHETHER HE THINKS THEY'RE TOWN OR SCUM, HE WILL DIE UNLESS THEY'RE A CAT. HOW THE SHIT IS THIS FAIR ON HIM UNLESS HE HAS SOME WAY TO DISCERN WHO SOMEONE'S PET IS, HMM?

Because people are never in a position where they'd claim their pet. (This observation basically amounts to "he's better off not using his action early on"; not a big deal.)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also:

Govern: lewarcher

Booyah.

[Untrod Tripod]

so

who wants to test it?

[Kublai Khan]

@Amrun - You're filling in details that aren't there. If lewarcher82 had said "Hey, we really shouldn't reveal anything about our pets, we don't know if there could be a Death-Note type killer out there." (or some sort of awareness-raising similar statement that reveals his specific game mechanic), then yeah I would be on the same page. But he didn't, and you can't get away with just imagining that he did.

P.EDIT - A short conversation with my wife and I think i got ninja'd by 2 pages worth of posts. Egads.

[Ghostlin]

You can lynch SK day 1, but if you never lynch scum after that, you still lose. It's much better to lynch SCUM. An SK lynch is a very-little-information flip. Town can harness him to do their bidding under threat of death, as well. If he disobeys, he dies.

For example, tonight, we can tell him who to target.

And you can lynch all the scum players you want, but you don't lynch a hostile third party role, town still loses.

Why are we having this conversation? I'm not even heavily invested in if he's an SK or not, I believe he's scum.

[Vi]

Also:

Govern: lewarcher

Booyah.

If this is real and I'm not physically around to be the first to say it after the fact, just kind of pretend I'm the first to call you a moron and we'll work with it.