A Feast for Crows Mafia - Valar Morghulis.

[hasdgfas]

Alrighty, looking through Benmage/MoS again, this time a bit less skim-y, I don't really have a problem with either of them right now. Benmage(who still hasn't linked me a scum game of his) seems like he did in SoS where he was town and pretty much this frustrating and MoS's actions don't make sense as scum.

hasdgfas - Just recently said he needed to look at it "again", despite not having ever said anything about it previously.

I meant that I had to look at it a bit more closely after mostly skimming it during my reread, because I saw it then although didn't say anything about it.

Also

V/LA through November 21

. Not no access, but not a lot.

[Magister Ludi]

Feysal, which game was I a day one lynch? Also, would you say you are lurking?

I liked your picture by the way

[hasdgfas]

It might just be my old age talking, but I don't seem to recall the Lord of Highgarden(Ludi) acting like this in other games. Am I wrong?

[Magister Ludi]

Have we ever played together?

[hasdgfas]

Have we ever played together?

I don't know. I might be confusing you with someone else, or I may have read a game you've been in, but I feel like I've seen you in a game or two.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm just really bored of this day. 37 pages of absolute innane drivel that I haven't read. I've called for a diddin lynch forever

Ok, enough of this.

I am a day cop. I investigated

Diddin

and received a result saying that he was not aligned with

the crown.

Lets expedite this lynch

[Magua]

It's like you're not even bothering.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'd still like him to explain why he thinks I'm a good vote, though.

"Good" in the sense of meaningful (i.e. pressure creating).

That's pretty much what I thought you were going to say, and reinforces my town read. Had you dodged the question, though, it would have worried me. You pass.

Yawn*. I'm crashing early day tomorrow.

MoS is still scum. Someone goes from zilch activity and no reads to this spreee when suddenly the #1 lynch candidate. Yep scum scum scum.

Yea, my activity isn't at all based on the fact that I went on vacation the day after this game started and now I'm not on vacation so I've had time to do some more analysis and posting. Nope not at all.

That's weak, Benmage. Stop stretching and own up to the fact that there are better people to lynch than me.

Yawn. This game, with the walls.

@Mastermind of Sin:

You played with me in Chuck Season 1 Mafia. I tunneled Energetic Penguin D1.

Ah yes, I remember that now. I'll look it over again at some point when I have time. For now I'll downgrade you a few spots until I've reinforced how that evidence makes me feel about you.

Pedit: Ludi, you probably could have actually just made a case against Diddin and gotten some movement on his lynch. Why did you just randomly shout he was scum without pointing out his scumtells. Knowing someone is scum is the easiest way to get them lynched, because you can take absolutely everything they do and spin it from a scum perspective, because you KNOW that's what they're doing. However, I'm prepared to follow you on this as long as you promise that this isn't some retarded gambit where we lynch diddin and if he comes up town you're going to claim "oh, I'm not actually a day cop, but I claimed it because I was absolutely certain he was scum! Oops." You need to be absolutely certain you're going to stick to this claim. Additionally, can you please tell us when you received your result?

[Plum]

Short post, already too late at night post. Apologies.

Plum - My brain glazes over his roleplaying, which isn't really a good sign. I think his suspicion of me seems genuine, but I'm not sure why Plum seems so convinced that there is dissonance in Oversoul's color-related statements but is voting me instead.

One bloody post at the beginning of the game. But anyway. I'm pretty much convinced that there's no real scummy dissonance in Oversoull's color-related statements (though at one point I did consider that a possibility - but reading him in full it seems pretty clear that it wasn't a slip of something scum deliberate). I frankly am at this point quite doubtful that Oversoul is Town. Reading. It be tech.

Feysal - If we weren't lynching MoS today, I'd probably go with hascow, Magister Ludi, Shadow. But seriously HASCOW, dude. Ludi's a bit inconclusive. Pray we have a Vig, for now.

MoS's actions don't make sense as scum.

How not (ah, the joys of asking a wuestion of someone who will have minimal access for a week)?

I'm just really bored of this day. 37 pages of absolute innane drivel that I haven't read. I've called for a diddin lynch forever

Ok, enough of this.

I am a day cop. I investigated

Diddin

and received a result saying that he was not aligned with

the crown.

Lets expedite this lynch

Oddly appropriate. Well, your behavior fits in a weird sort of way, I'll grant you. If this is what you like, this is how we roll. Give your word that it's your life for diddin's, and let the good times roll.

UNVOTE:

Oh, and tell us when and why you chose t investigate diddin.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

My instinct says ML's just making it up.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

(And that Plum is scum.)

[Feysal]

Feysal, which game was I a day one lynch?

They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard Mafia. More accurately, it was your slot that was a day one mislynch, after you had replaced out. Anyway, your early posts in that game seemed similar to here, though the difference remains that in that game you had a lot more posts over a shorter time.

Also, would you say you are lurking?

It is hard to argue I was not, given my low post count. However, I am trying to get more involved in the game.

I liked your picture by the way.

The picture was intended simply as an attention getter, since I did not like the way the game was headed. Glad you liked it.

Anyway, you've given us something new to discuss. It is now your word against diddin's, and I am curious what he has to say.

[Empking]

- Claims he'd play differently if CES was sheeping him consistently. I agree with MoI that it doesn't make sense.['/quote]

1. That a misrepresentation.
2. Do you play Double Vote exactly the same as any other role?

Agrees with Benmage that shadow is a noob rather than scum, but still keeps his vote on him.

Where?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Feysal - If we weren't lynching MoS today, I'd probably go with hascow,

Magister Ludi

, Shadow. But seriously HASCOW, dude. Ludi's a bit inconclusive. Pray we have a Vig, for now.

Oddly appropriate. Well, your behavior fits in a weird sort of way, I'll grant you. If this is what you like, this is how we roll. Give your word that it's your life for diddin's, and let the good times roll.

Sigh … CES is probably right – Plum is scum.

--

You think it is possible he is town and you are voting him?

And what, pray tell, would being 'useful' look like? You?

Nope, don’t think he’s Town. Just commenting more on the fact that regardless of MoS’s unknown alignment (which I am reading as scum) your commentary and posts this game have been active lurking usefulness.

And this undermining response to a comment where I don’t even bother to call you scum makes me think it is scum active lurking.

Yes – my play is 1000% more Pro-Town than you. I’m scum-hunting. You are sitting on your duff RPing and doing nothing.

One easy reason. 863 comes from town. That is town effort, plus the ideas he presents in it make a lot of sense.

Town effort? Lulz. Yes, scum are never active and never put in effort near deadline when their lynch after many days of scummy play is possible yet a viable counter-wagon exists.

Thanks for the relational tell there.

I am a day cop. I investigated Diddin and received a result saying that he was not aligned with the crown.

So you are day cop who gets results that aren’t “Innocent / Guilty” but results that say “Not Aligned with the Crown” when clearly the Mod has included Non-Crown aligned Town players?

And rather than attack him for his dayplay to supplement you’ve just sat and said “Hey, vote him!”?

--

Yes, of course I believe there are scum on the wagon. Do I think scum purposely withheld themselves from voting Shadow(because he's scum), but eagerly hopped on Oversoul. 100% NO!!!!!!

Funny, I thought you didn’t believe in absolutes in Mafia. We will just have to disagree on this.

1. First wagons ever go through? Cheah right. Scum would be willing to bus vote here for later VCA because the likelihood of the first wagon going through is SOOOOooo little. So it can show distancing without fear of lynching.

I’ll agree first wagons on Scum in a Large Game never go through. Vezok at least has provided one recent example of it happening to Town.

I’m curious why you would think an early wagon would be a great place to distance for scum-partners given the focus that people in general (and Cow has indicated) that weak voting early on garners.

2. Scum could be reluctant to vote Shadow for fear of being accused of wagoning.

So scum were afraid of voting on Town because they were afraid of being labelled bandwagonners but weren’t afraid to vote another? (This is of course from your perspective that both are Town … I’m not sold).

--

Yep, I lied about finding the "waffly" comments from Plum scummy. It was a gambit I stole from half of Eddard Stark. I actually found the quotes I selected pretty obvtown.

Unfortunately, no one rose to the bait.

So let me get this straight – your comments on Plum being ‘waffly’ were a grand trap when Mina, Queen of Waffledom, attacking someone else for that behavior is a clear sign of Cognitive Dissoanance?

--

I very much disagree. If you're going to use a tell against other players in a live mafia game, then discussion of the tell's validity and strength is definitely warranted. The one you used on me seemed so weak that I thought it was alarming you would seriously apply it to a game.

Of course you disagree. And I disagree that it wasn’t fluff and that the tell is ‘weak’. I’m applying my opinion on the matter in my assessment of you.

I said I thought Shadow was town, for reasons I have mentioned before. I also said Empking had exhibited behavior I associate with town, but that I find him difficult to read. That should not be surprising, considering his posts frequently consist of a single sentence, vote, or even a punctuation character.

So again … you want the stance that their early conflict was Town v Town but also want to be sure you don’t fully commit on Empking. Noted.

I recognize the implication in your wording that it would be suspicious to change a stance once it was publicly taken. Forming and revising reads on other players is what this game is all about, so I don't appreciate you attaching scum intentions to that. What is this about abandoning a position? Anyone can and should revise their reads in response to new information and player behavior. I will do that whenever I see reason to, and I don't need an escape clause to do it.

Of course forming and revising reads on other players is what the game is about. Town, however, have no reason to do it in an unauthentic way. Which is what I see you doing.

Instead of saying “Empking’s behavior looks Town to me” and then later saying “Hmm, he’s really changed since early Day 1” you said “Well, that should be Town but I can’t read Empking”. You specifically laid the groundwork for changing your read before you ever had reason to do so. You also talked about doing some meta research but said anything about it until I prodded you.

--

Because this conversation isn't over yet.

Creating a bandwagon in RVS isn't scummy in and of itself. The issue is the same issue that you get any other time though. You have to have a solid reason for it. Your reason did not feel genuine.

You have to have a solid reason for your RVS bandwagon? Am I reading that right?

--

This still doesn't make any sense, especially since you consider Oversoul scummy too. Also, the simplest explanation for Oversoul's wagon growing quickly is that people viewed him as more suspicious, town holds the majority of votes after all. The opinions expressed on Oversoul were stronger, ie "this is an obvious scum slip, lynch now" so it's not surprising that he picked up more votes.

I’m not going to bother debating you on what makes sense to me. Rather pointless. I will simply comment on the following two points –

1. If both were scummy (and we can argue about ‘degrees’ at that stage of the game) why did one wagon explode like a cannon and the other not?
2. Do you not think Shadow’s reaction to mild RVS pressure wasn’t obvious?

--

This looks forced to me.

I agree. It smells.

--

[Shadow1psc]

End of page #33, addressing

Shadow: Actively provoking Benmage who has proven that he can get people to sheep him seems very risky if he was scum. On the other hand his posts have been generally unhelpful as Benmage/MoI have pointed out, and someone who's been spamming the thread implying that post count is an indicator of scumminess never sits well with me. Neutral, due to conflicting reads.

I never implied anything other than people actively not posting/lurking = scummy no matter which way you cut it. Active =\= town necessarily, and both are simple early devices for avoiding/pursuing decent d1 lynch candidates. I'd rather lynch someone from a pool of people who aren't going to contribute than someone who, if town, is super active, and if scum, are active enough to provide plenty of information once they are lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I never implied anything other than people actively not posting/lurking = scummy no matter which way you cut it. Active =\= town necessarily, and both are simple early devices for avoiding/pursuing decent d1 lynch candidates. I'd rather lynch someone from a pool of people who aren't going to contribute than someone who, if town, is super active, and if scum, are active enough to provide plenty of information once they are lynched.

So you'd rather not scum-hunt but instead policy lynch?

Hello people! Are you not reading his posts? He's scum.

[zoraster]

[Eddard Stark]

Day 1, Votecount 30

Oversoul (6) - Magua, diddin, Hasdgfas, Monday, Cogito Ergo Sum, Wraith
Greenknight (1) - ooba

Mastermind of Sin (7) greenknight, Oversoul, Empking, MagnaofIllusion, Benmage, Zdenek, Deity of Flame

diddin (2) - Magister Ludi, Albert B. Rampage
DTMaster (1) - Mina
Empking (2) - Shadow1psc, Mastermind of Sin
Magister Ludi (1) - Feysal

Not voting

(3) Mockingjaye, DTMaster, Plum

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 17th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-17 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  
• DTMaster and Ooba have failed to respond to a prod. I'll begin looking into replacements later this evening - if they post before I find a replacement they may keep their spot.

[Oversoul]

I don't believe Ludi's claim because of Brightest Day Mafia wherein our Cult Member, Nikanor, fake claimed a cop guilty on Toogeloo who was playing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Diddin

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't believe Ludi's claim because of Brightest Day Mafia wherein our Cult Member, Nikanor, fake claimed a cop guilty on Toogeloo who was playing.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Diddin

Ok, so you don't believe that Ludi is telling the truth. And immediately vote for his claimed result?

[Empking]

EBWOP

- Claims he'd play differently if CES was sheeping him consistently. I agree with MoI that it doesn't make sense.

1. That a misrepresentation.
2. Do you play Double Vote exactly the same as any other role?

Agrees with Benmage that shadow is a noob rather than scum, but still keeps his vote on him.

Where?

[Oversoul]

I don't believe that he has a daycop guilty, but I believe that he has other inside knowledge for making that claim.

Ludi's play has not been typical. I've never really seen him go full lurker mode only to come out and play almost exactly the same as Nikanor in Brightest Day.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't believe that he has a daycop guilty, but I believe that he has other inside knowledge for making that claim.

Ludi's play has not been typical. I've never really seen him go full lurker mode only to come out and play almost exactly the same as Nikanor in Brightest Day.

Well what other inside information do you possible see that would Day 1 with no N0 be credible as to support his "gambit"?

[Shadow1psc]

I never implied anything other than people actively not posting/lurking = scummy no matter which way you cut it. Active =\= town necessarily, and both are simple early devices for avoiding/pursuing decent d1 lynch candidates. I'd rather lynch someone from a pool of people who aren't going to contribute than someone who, if town, is super active, and if scum, are active enough to provide plenty of information once they are lynched.

So you'd rather not scum-hunt but instead policy lynch?

Hello people! Are you not reading his posts? He's scum.

That's what it breaks down to if you lack reading comprehension, sure.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's what it breaks down to if you lack reading comprehension, sure.

See this is the sort of cheeky scum response that pisses me off …

Let’s examine the chain of events –

1. Shadow posts a slap-dash list of low posting players (which laughably includes one of the heads of DoF who was increadibly active) and says “Scum will be found here”. Which as discussed was meaningless since you didn’t actually include opinion or analysis on which lurker was scum.
2. Shadow then says, when questioned “No, I never said lurking was scummy at all. I’d just rather lynch those not contributing as opposed to active players who may or may not be scum”. Which directly contradicts your "Scum is here" stance earlier.

The conclusion I come to is –

1. You are actively stating you’d rather policy lynch today. And that you’d rather policy lynch from a large group with no reasoning why anyone one of those players is a better lynch than any other.
2. You are willing to give active, scummy players a pass for just being active.

Is either of these conclusions inconsistent with what you are saying? Because that’s yet another scummy stance to take. Both from a gameplay standpoint and for the inherent contradictory position you are taking.

Lastly – why is your vote on Empking rather than one of your policy lynch targets? Because he’s certainly active and providing votes and commentary to get reads / relational tells from. Seems like you are fabricating your stances as you go along.

Yup, you are scum.