Mini 1270 - Stargate SG-1 Mafia

[Retrospective]

Sup, I'm replacing Christine.

I've got a little rocky history with Time but I promise I'll be nice.

I just got accepted to the university I've wanted to get into since I was a kid (:D!), so I gotta sign up for classes and go to a victory dinner with some friends before I can catch up in this game. You can expect me to be caught up and have my reads within the next 12 hours though.

[smargaret]

Votecount 1.6

1. PeregrineV - 1 (Retrospective)
2. Felmix - 0
3. Timeater - 2 ([Redacted], 4nxi3ty)
4. Workdawg - 0
5. Ravel - 0
6. Vala Mal Doran - 0
7. Retrospective - 1 (Ravel)
8. malthusis - 0
9. [Redacted] - 5 (Fennin, Vala Mal Doran, Timeater, Felmix, jerobbo)
10. Fennin - 0
11. 4nxi3ty - 1 (Workdawg)
12. jerobbo - 1 (PeregrineV)
13. Citizen Karne - 0

Not Voting - 3 (malthusis, Citizen Karne)

And Retrospective does indeed replace Christine.

[4nxi3ty]

Couple of big assumptions here, but..

I'm gonna assume that good characters from the show are all Town. And I'm also going to assume that Colonel Mitchell as one of the main characters is definitely in the game. No-one has yet come out and said that they are actually Mitchell as well, so right now I'm inclined to believe Timeater and mark him down as Town for now.

And it has got the discussion going, so it's all good I guess.

This would actually make the game breakable by flavor, which is not generally how the games are designed. It seems like you are encouraging that mindset for whatever reasons, when chances are it's not the case.

Unvote.
Vote:Jerobbo

This has been bothering. It seems like PeregrineV is trying to make something look scummy when there actually isn't much to go on, in fact Jerobbo's post is more likely a newb-tell than anything else. What peregrinev is trying to do here is very similar to what he is doing to CK, taking a null-tell and making it look suspicious.

Redacted could be lurking or he might actually have trouble making it online. Either way I think the wagon on him has got way ahead of its self and should be put on the back burner for a little bit.

unvote, vote: PeregrineV

[PeregrineV]

@Felmix- Sure, I have no problem with that. What are the issues you would like specific comment on?

@Time- About Redacted, I'll have to go back and look at his posts specifically.

@Retro- Welcome and congrats.

@Anxiety- It was a page3 non-RVS vote. What kind of deep meaning are you looking for out it?
And since Jerebo posting is newb-tell, what do you think of Karne's posting?

[4nxi3ty]

Your vote on jerobbo, is the beginning of a pattern of behaviour that continues with your view on CKarne. Also, I don't see why your vote is still on Jerobbo and not ck.

[PeregrineV]

Your vote on jerobbo, is the beginning of a pattern of behaviour that continues with your view on CKarne. Also, I don't see why your vote is still on Jerobbo and not ck.

Jerobo proposed an activity that generally does NOT benefit town, and more often benefits scum.

Karne announced his playstyle, presumably for the sake of discussion.

Would you like me to unvote him?

[4nxi3ty]

The activity he proposed was flawed, but I don't see how saying that 'every good character in the show is probably town' benefits either side.

You seem to be more focused on Karne than jerobbo, which is why i am confused as to why you left your vote on jerobbo(which isn't really putting pressure on him) instead of placing it on CK.

[PeregrineV]

The activity he proposed was flawed, but I don't see how saying that 'every good character in the show is probably town' benefits either side.

You seem to be more focused on Karne than jerobbo, which is why i am confused as to why you left your vote on jerobbo(which isn't really putting pressure on him) instead of placing it on CK.

Did you read any of the responses about why name claiming is bad?

[Retrospective]

Sorry in advance for typos. I didn't reread because I got bored. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

[17]: How?
[32]: Jeez, you really do hate RVS, don't you? Having the balls to do this is a towntell and aligned with Time's town meta.
[37]: I have no clue why you would vote Time for the nameclaim. Did you think it was scummy or is this extended RVS?
[40]: This is a good post by Vala and where I would have placed my vote as well.
[47]: This is bad. This reads as scum trying to do damage control because someone just appeared immensely town. 'just seemed weird', 'why should everyone nameclaim exactly?', 'I've seen some gutsy moves, so I wouldn't be surprised' All of these sound like Fennin is trying to spin the nameclaim off as scummy without coming out and saying it. [1] It looks like quiet discrediting. He obviously was trying to make this appear scummy but he did it in such a way that he tried not to make waves. There's no reason for town perspective for underhandedly attack someone like this. [2] At the end he backsteps and says 'Oh I guess he's town' VOTE: Fennin
[52]: This post further illustrates why 47 was scummy. This is how I think a town player who suspects Time would act and the logic is sound. There is a huge contrast between this and 47.
[54]: Best post in the game so far. jerobbo is more inline with how I read time's claim and I liked how he made assumptions to call someone town rather than scum.
[55]: Take a look at any of Time's games. This is how he acts and none of the above quoted is scummy at all.
[59]: This is horrible. How did you get a scum read off 54?
[61]: No. And if anything the asking for a bullet comment is a towntell because I have a hard time seeing scum saying that. His problem with you it that it seemed too town and unnecessary to do for a real town player to do. Which is a legitimate and logical concern even if I disagree.
[65]: This makes me regret defending you. 'Fail more scum'... I hate the MS mindset that you have to be 100% sure in your read even if you don't believe it. It's bad and it has town faking their reads as much as a scum player would. If by chance you're actually serious, why? You mentioned earlier that he is asking for a bullet. So shouldn't it be pretty obvious if Time is town or not in the days to come if he's still alive? All in all, time's nameclaim would be a pretty dumbass move as scum.
[69]: lol and time does exactly what I just decibed that I hate. I think you all should be beginning to see why time and I butt heads. I will say that he has more reason to be sure of his vote than Redacted did though.
[74]: I can't not call time out on this. Didn't you run away with your tail between your legs last game because I called you VI twice? Now you're doing it to everyone.
[4nx + Time]: You're both wrong from 73-78. Time is falling into his typically inflamatory (and wrong) town meta and 4nx reads noobtown to me.
[107]: Thanks for pointing out the Vala Mal Doran contradiction. I missed it.
[109]: This is odd. Your anaysis is great and I agree with a bunch of stuff and then all of a sudden you throw down an FoS that I don't think fits your analysis and that I don't agree with at all. Oh okay you get to it in your second paragraph. Overall good post, high in value.
---- Can we please stop discussing the nameclaim? Some of us thinks it's a towntell, some of us don't. It doesn't really matter anymore, what matters are the reasons said players gave. Everyone is discussing the wrong stuff.
[117]: Okay the earlier explanations were helpful but this is really all you are doing. You chime in to talk about theory but don't discuss anything going on in the game.
---- Why do so many people think Fennin is town?
=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 93602[145]: I like this post. Especially the part that you brought up about PereV.
[152]: I know people wont buy this tell but I don't care much. Usually when you see someone go back and reread and come back with something completely didfferent from the current discussion, it's a pretty big towntell. I like that 4nx did this here. I like his 154 as well.

Alright. 10 is clear, 1 is confirmed scum.

Time: 8

- His nameclaim is a towntell. Considering that he's a main character, I have a very hard time seeing scum receive said role for a fakeclaim. His meta points to him being town again. If you look over his reasons for his reads, they're based almost solely on his own perspective and how he views himself. He thinks that everyone should be kissing his feet right now and anyone who put even an ounce of pressure on him had to deal with him constant attacks. Implies that he sees himself as town even though his scumhunting is faulty. I am not impressed with all of the suspicion that was thrown time's way.

jerobbo: 7

- The conclusions that he made in refence to Time's nameclaim scream town. None of his later posts left a lasting impression on me though.

4nxi3ty: 7

- I actually surprised myself at how high 4nx ended up being. His early game appeared newbtown but since then he's made more logical sense. I like where he's going on PereV atm.

Citizen Karne: 6

- Really good analysis, this guy will be a valuable asset to town even if he's scum. The thing that troubles me is that I feel like a lot of your play has been play style specific rather than game specific. For instance, you talking about the fact that you don't place your vote and then saying that you read people who don't like that as scum is based solely on your play style. You would do the same in another game too. Some theory this is great but you have no real way of getting us to follow you just because you say so when it relates to only you. Also, I think your playstyle choice to opt out of voting has absolutely zero town upside.

Vala Mal Doran: 6

- I need to see more from Vala but I do like what I've seen so far with the exception of the contradiction.

Anyone not listed is null.

Felmix is here because honestly, I only skimmed your posts. I'll go back and reread you but after awhile I wanted to just be done. Your real content comes later and that's why I don't have a read yet.

PeregrineV: 4

- I feel like you've provided almost nothing of value. You kind of bring whole new meaning to the IIoA tell. I don't like your early vote on Jerobbo either.

[Redacted]: 4

- I've explained above why Redacted is down here. I do not think he deserves the massive amount of attention he's received.

Fennin: 2

- The fact that loads of you are giving this guy a townread is baffling to me. Either I missed something BIG or you guys need to revisit him and stop giving him towncred for being on Redacted.

[Workdawg]

WTF is up with your post? I hope all your posts aren't like that. It's a huge pain in the ass to click all your links just to get context for your comments. I'd rather stare down a wall...

[Retrospective]

They aren't. Sorry, I've never replaced in before and I figured that'd be easier to read than me quoting but I guess not.

[Timeater]

you cant process me, too much tiger blood

anyway im gonna go watch Bsg: razor then shit out a big out-of-meta wall post

just for you retro

[Redacted]

I have a problem with this. I don't mind the idea he was doing it for town cred, but I think you're pretty significantly misrepresenting his behaviour when you talk about him bullying people into name claiming. He stated that his claim was partially due to a general principle, and explained that when specifically asked. That contrasts with the picture you're painting; I think you're trying to make him look much more aggressive than is warranted. Why is that?

The forcing name claim part was how he was presenting his name claim as being a very town thing to do, while playing aggressively and his whole posts spree at VMD about outing her main. I was out to make him sound like a good lynch target because I had a scumread on him and wanted to get a bandwagon started.

However I've since taken the time to read some of his other games and realised it's equally likely dumb as scum, he's basically just an awful uncooperative Fate.

I'm moving him to the null category at the moment but am in no way willing to call him town.

[Redacted]

Your vote on jerobbo, is the beginning of a pattern of behaviour that continues with your view on CKarne. Also, I don't see why your vote is still on Jerobbo and not ck.

What about his case on CKarne struck you as oppertunistic?

[Redacted]

@Fennin:

You're votes on me but you've never actually mentioned me, nor have you taken any stances on your thought of people aligment / cases or what not.

Why do you think I'm scum, who do you think is town?

[Redacted]

EBWOP: This quote should have been included in post 162; As part of reasons for the forcing name claims comment about Time.

I actually think people should nameclaim/fluffclaim in at the start of all almost all non-standard games.

He's presenting himself as town, name claiming as a very town thing to do and saying that he thinks other people should nameclaim.

Sorry for the haphazard postings here and the delay, I got side tracked; however I'm now pretty much on-top of everything other then following through all the links in Retro's post so it should be more timely / composed from here on.

[jerobbo]

Your vote on jerobbo, is the beginning of a pattern of behaviour that continues with your view on CKarne. Also, I don't see why your vote is still on Jerobbo and not ck.

Jerobo proposed an activity that generally does NOT benefit town, and more often benefits scum.

Karne announced his playstyle, presumably for the sake of discussion.

Would you like me to unvote him?

So uhh... I didn't propose any activity whatsoever, what are you talking about? Are you trying to make out that I wanted everyone to claim, because if so you're misrepresenting me a great deal and I have to take issue with that.

I said why I thought timeater's claim could make him Town. nothing more, nothing less. I didn't 'propose' anything, certainly not any kind of 'activity'. This stinks.

[Timeater]

@ Retro

Call me anything you like. Incompetent, silly, whacky, mean - just dont call me dumb. Yes I may make a few typos here and there or forget the odd word in a sentence or two, but that doesn't make me dumb. Like my wiki says, I'm bipolar. I'm neurotic sometimes. But despite this I run my own real estate company and do pretty well for myself. When you compared me to deity kabuto, riceballtail, (insert obvious VI here) it beyond infuriated me. Ok so you may take this for me having a weak ego (or big depending on how you think about it) - but that isn't the case. There are just some things I wont accept on a personal level, and being called dumb is one of them. Sure I could have blown it off, sure I could have ignored you, but I wasn't in the mood to. My mood dictates my play, sadly. I'm not Spock, though sometimes I can be

I've said it in my other games and I'll say it now. Just because I dont express immediate concern a player is scum, just because I am not sharing 100% of my feelings about something in a given set of posts, doesn't mean I'm telling you the whole story. I would literally have to post like CK every single time I posted for this to be possible. And I'm not going to do that. I simply dont have the time for it. Even this post wont be as long as it "should" be.

Anxeity

Anxiety was intentionally playing dumb. PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO PASS OFF DERP PLAY AS INEXPERIENCE. SO QUICK. And I'm tired of it. Just because he acts clueless doesn't mean he's town. My gut still has anxiety as scum. Especially after looking at his play in another ongoing game, which appears to somewhat competent. His reaction is like a deer in headlights. Its a scummy reaction. Though I can be a deer in headlights when I'm being tunneled too. FUCKIT! Gut still says he's scum. Roar.

VMD

Anyway moving on, another thing about this game that is bugging me is the few accusations I've gotten for clearing VMD as town. "Oh wow she appealed to his ego so he got a town read on her, snickersnickersnicker" - lol no. I'm giving VMD the "Temporary Honorary ObvTown Badge" for http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3590302 because of a few things. It takes a balls for someone to so massively defend someone like that earlygame. VMD isn't a trashcan player so I view her willingness to do this as genuine. This coupled with her reaction to my post asking her if she was buddying gets her the badge. She also makes a valid point against Felmix. The only problem is her postcount. If it was higher we could get married and have nice little farscape babies.

Fennin

I find the Fennin reads interesting and not entirely implausible. I view Fennin as someone who plays the game mediocre intensity and has mediocre-beginner experience. I could have been initially swayed by his first few posts, which I viewed as genuine. I also did not like "In my short mafia career (offsite) I have seen some gutsy moves, so I wouldn't be surprised. But I generally agree with this." But at the time I viewed that as someone who is playing the game without too much intensity so I brushed it off. I liked his observance of lurking players. That got him alot of townpoints in my eyes. I can see how someone might question the validity of those points, though. Fennin, what do you think of Retro's points against you?

PeregrineV

PV sure does like his iioa this game. I think http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3584013 is bad too. I also think http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3587323 is fairly scummy. The CK/PV interaction seems a bit dick-sucky so I'm going to link those players alignment, however tentatively. The thing about PV is I just played a game with him, and I wasn't really impressed with his performance. Maybe I'm being unfair, but I'm giving him alot of leeway at the moment. Otherwise I'd be all over him.

Redacted

The read is further confirmed. He is it playing it very low-key, refusing to acknowledge several valid points brought against him. Covering himself with a blanket defense. He is still clinging to the idea that my nameclaim was produced with the goal of being a "townie-looking" thing to do while in the same post he brings up the VMD-tunnel bizarrely without an apparent point. But oh, he was just looking for a wagon. The misreps were nothing of consequence. It aint no thang. But even with all that, I am troubled by a few things. Chief being "he's basically just an awful uncooperative Fate." and "oppertunistic" and "Why do you think I'm scum, who do you think is town?" - looking for further Redacted analysis by other players as my super-scum read is starting to fracture a little...

[Retrospective]

That post was significantly more pleasant than I expected. o.o You shouldn't call people VI if it upsets you so much. It's hypocritical to say that you have a huge problem with it and then do it yourself. Although, I apologize again for making you leave that game. Did you follow the game after you left? What's your read on me?

Could you explain why Fennin posts asking the mod to prod inactives gave you a lot of townpoints? I feel like both posts aren't telling in the slightest. The first is null and I'd wager Fennin would do it in any game and the second can't actually lead to any scum reads because early game inactivity isn't a tell at all. Btw, this post makes anxeity/Fennin team unlikely.

[Timeater]

I followed it. I was hoping Uphill would be scum >_> so I could make a MUAUHAUhUAHAUHA TOLD YOU SO post. He didn't complain. If he did I would have stepped on the brakes.

About Fennin - because I can confirm his sightings. I also saw Christine and Felmix hovering in the "Users browsing this forum:" zone quite a bit. I can speculate on why Christine, your slot didn't post, but that wont get me far. Like CK I'm giving you the "Effort Badge" for now. So you get a few townpoints. You only can that badge once in a game though. I thought 57 was a pretty good post. I dont like to unlink players because of headbutting.

Please talk about Redacted's recent posts.

[Retrospective]

Alright.

I still stand by Redacted 52 wasn't scummy at all though and in contrast with Fennin, I'd give it townpoints. I also think saying that you were asking for a bullet is a towntell because it's something I have a hard time seeing scum do. What I didn't like was how he supported it later in 65. I'm going to quote myself so that hoepfully Redacted will reply to me this time:

[65]: This makes me regret defending you. 'Fail more scum'... I hate the MS mindset that you have to be 100% sure in your read even if you don't believe it. It's bad and it has town faking their reads as much as a scum player would. If by chance you're actually serious, why? You mentioned earlier that he is asking for a bullet. So shouldn't it be pretty obvious if Time is town or not in the days to come if he's still alive? All in all, time's nameclaim would be a pretty dumbass move as scum.

Looking closely at his most recent posts, I don't see much to actually talk about. He defends his old position but retracts the scum read. He's kind of forced to that because of his current position. The only thing that stood out to me is:

I was out to make him sound like a good lynch target because I had a scumread on him and wanted to get a bandwagon started.

Reads as 'I was pushing on him because I thought he was scum' which is just a duh statement and didn't need to be posted.

I don't think any of this is enough to lynch on and doesn't' deserve a L-2.

[Timeater]

uh huh

[4nxi3ty]

Timeater, I agree with the town-tell on fennin wanting prods, It coincides with his experience. I would also like to add that him asking 'why am i town?' is another town-tell imo.

I think you are making a few big assumptions about why I choose to play a certain way at times.

[Fennin]

I just wrote something and posted it, but it doesn't show up. I don't know if I did anything wrong or posted somewhere else by mistake, but whatever, I'll try again :

I don't agree with Retro's read on me. All my posts are genuine, my questions were legit. You are just seeing things that don't exist. But I'd also like to know why some of you have a strong townread on me. I already asked that question.

About my vote on Redacted, I didn't unvote since I had nobody to vote for and I found the wagon interesting, so I stayed on it. I expected a claim from Redacted, who most of us find scummy. But nothing ...

I'd also like to add that I have difficulties transcribing my thoughts into English, or any other language in fact. About my request for prods, that was because I was eager to play and there was not a lot of activity. I never had the intention to gain towncredits with that.

I must say I'm surprised Retro finds me scummy, since I'm not. No way to prove that yet. But his post looks really agressive. At least, that's how I feel.

[Retrospective]

Welp, that just destroyed my scum read on Fennin. Please stop asking why people take you are town though, it makes me feel you're milking their read as much as you can get. Especially after anxiety just gave you town cred for it. Anyway, that post did read as legitimate surprise.

Fennin, how do you read the nameclaim now?

Do I honestly stand alone in thinking that people are jumping the gun on Redacted too much?