Abarat Mafia: Mini 1274 - Over

[hitogoroshi]

“At Two lies Orlando’s Cap, which is not an island I know well. An asylum for the insane is located here—so placed because its founder, Izzard Coyne, believed Two in the Afternoon to be an Hour that promotes a healing balm in the soul.

The island, however, is so ill-favored that it’s hard to imagine those prone to irrationality being much comforted there. The island’s name, by the way, comes from its caplike shape. I can find no evidence of who Orlando was, nor, I suppose, do the sorrowful occupants of the island much care.

It should be noted, for those interested in either the products of the insane mind or in art (and how often are those things one and the same!), that Coyne’s healing methodologies included allowing his patients the means to create. Thus, scattered across Orlando’s Cap are artifacts that his patients fashioned. Some are of humble ambition, but others seem to be entire fantastic worlds carved from stone or wood and often painted in hallucinatory colors.

When we look at the way the islands are arranged in the Sea of Izabella, there seems to be a designing hand at work, which conspires with nature to unseat our expectations. Thus close beside the island of Orlando’s Cap, which is a place of dour scenery (albeit enlivened by the creations of Coyne’s patients) there lies the Nonce, which is to my eye the most beautiful of all the islands. How is it that they can be so different from one another, when they are divided by a passage of water so narrow you might skip it with a stone?"

--Klepp's Almenak

VC 7 (Session 1, VC 7)

(2)

Kiwieagle:

Indecision, Zang

(Klazam)

[L-5]
(2)

4nxi3ty

: Nachomamma8, Oversoul [L-5]
(2)

Zang:

Seraphim, DLG [L-5]
(2)

Klazam:

Hinduragi, Faraday [L-5]
(2)

Oversoul:

4nxi3ty, Klazam [L-5]
(1)

Nachomamma8:

Timeater
(0)

Indecision:

(Jase)

(2)

Not Voting

: kiwieagle, Jase

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Automatic Termination of the First Session

(expired on 2011-12-02 00:30:00)

[Nachomamma8]

Zang, so many of those questions were useless. I do like your play right now though, so no real complaints... but good LORD.

Also,

Vote: Klazam

Do you even know why you changed your mind on #263?

[Klazam]

Yes, I do.

and since when is it important that I look townish?
im not a PR; nor am I scum. So I see no reason.

This part right here.

[Nachomamma8]

Refine that just a bit more. Why do you think scumkiwi is incapable of posting something like this? Or, even better than that, why do you think it's more likely townkiwi would've posted that as opposed to scumkiwi?

[Zang]

Without a designation as to which is which, the negative impact is the same for all three. You are ignoring the fact that at the time I voted him, this latter explanation was unavailable. You are trying to imply both pieces of information were available to me when I voted him. Not so. Faulty argument.

I fail to see how the negative impact of calling one person scum is greater than the positive impact of calling two people town. They were not available at the time you voted but instead of just voting him you could have asked whether he knew which one is the scum. It doesn't matter though because it is available now and could have been easily assumed because of the fact that he did not say which one he thought was scum, you were jumping to the conclusion that he did.

If you had this information at the time you voted for him, would you still have voted for him?

You specifically asked why he should have voted at 33%. I specifically answered why 33% was a better option than the others available. Don't try to spin this into something it wasn't. Faulty argument.

I said 33% because I was trying to prove the point because if he chose based purely on chance, which you said he should do, it was not likely that he would catch scum. Like I said, instead of just voting somebody based on chance, he should have scumhunted to find scum.

No you haven't. We're talking about my first post, not just my vote on 4nxi3ty. Faulty argument at best for you, lie at worst. Why?

Your vote for Anxiety was what made your first post scummy.

No, it wasn't. You tried to say it was, but I gave another explanation. An explanation you acknowledge I gave by addressing the smear three portion above. Faulty argument.

Where is this other explanation?

I used no faulty arguments against 4nxi3ty and I never accused him of being scum. Did you miss the post where I unvoted him due to his reactions to my vote and other things?You, I'm accusing of being scum. Nothing you posted in response has swayed me otherwise.

Fine, then you unjustly voted him. What exactly have I done to make you think that I am scum?

Then why use both descriptors without stating that the two things which are not automatically synonomous are being used that way by you? But, fine, they are synonymous for the purposes of this discussion.

Anxiety- His posts aren't that good Faraday- I don't like his posts or how he pretended to hammer Anxiety

Why do you describe your top two town reads as being suspicious or scummy under that definition?

1.“His posts aren't that good” is different than “I don't like”
2.I say that for Faraday because his posts are suspicious but like I said, there isn't really a scum motivation behind his posts which is why he is a town read.

I've explained the purpose of the deal.

Yes but what do you hope to accomplish with it? I doubt that just because you propose this deal would help you stay alive night 1 regardless of whether Equinox/Indecision would honor the proposal, I doubt that their scumbuddies would if the really wanted you dead. You have already said that Equinox is the only person that you trust to honor this deal. I just don't understand the point of it.

Some things are not worth explaining. Who do you think I'm referring to? My mason buddies? My scumbuddies? Me and you?

I don't really know who you were referring to but my point was that this seemed like a pretty big thing to just ignore, at least I think you should have posted this.

[Klazam]

Refine that just a bit more. Why do you think scumkiwi is incapable of posting something like this? Or, even better than that, why do you think it's more likely townkiwi would've posted that as opposed to scumkiwi?

That tone. I havent seen scum use that tone. I only see frustrated townies doing that.

[Nachomamma8]

I doubt that their scumbuddies would if the really wanted you dead. I just don't understand the point of it.

Equinox would make sure of it, I know that much. As for understanding the point... I'm not quite sure what more I can explain, I'm afraid.

I don't really know who you were referring to but my point was that this seemed like a pretty big thing to just ignore, at least I think you should have posted this.

Fair enough. I just didn't really see a reason to address it, since it seemed so... trivial.

[Nachomamma8]

Refine that just a bit more. Why do you think scumkiwi is incapable of posting something like this? Or, even better than that, why do you think it's more likely townkiwi would've posted that as opposed to scumkiwi?

That tone. I havent seen scum use that tone. I only see frustrated townies doing that.

Examples, please. I'm not seeing a distinctly "town" or "scum" tone in that post.

[Nachomamma8]

And are you at the point where you'd be able to shuffle kiwi into confirmed town status? Or are we not talking that powerful quite yet?

[Faraday]

Equinox would make sure of it, I know that much.

Not if I were her buddy!

[kiwieagle]

Refine that just a bit more. Why do you think scumkiwi is incapable of posting something like this? Or, even better than that, why do you think it's more likely townkiwi would've posted that as opposed to scumkiwi?

That tone. I havent seen scum use that tone. I only see frustrated townies doing that.

Examples, please. I'm not seeing a distinctly "town" or "scum" tone in that post.

Devil in the details

[DLG]

@ Zang

I guess we just have to disagree on the impact of 4nxi3ty's "1 of 3". I did not jump to the conclusion that 4nxi3ty knew which of the 3 was scum at the time of his post. Why try to put words in my mouth? Where I agreed with Nachomamma8 was that if he thought any of the 3 was scum, he should have been investigating that further over voting someone else.

Yes, even had I known that he wasn't sure which one specifically was scum, I would have voted him for his post. The why is tied up in the 33% discussion.

First, I never, ever, said or implied that 4nxi3ty should have voted based purely on chance. Again with the misrep of what I've posted.

Second, if he believed the 1 of 3 statement (which he has since said he did), the option was vote one of them to help clarify which one it was or vote outside of that set. He chose to vote outside the set, and from his stated point of view, that meant he was choosing to vote a 2 out of 9 chance over a 1 of 3 chance. Voting with less likelihood of hitting scum than another option he believed does not look town motivated.

Post #215 is where I gave my reason for voting 4nxi3ty. It's where I first used the term smear, which you use in response to me, which means you knew I had posted it. Why would you ask this question?

I really want to know something from you. What is your opinion of voting as a scumhunting tool? So far, I'm being led to believe that you think it is not a proper or viable tool. Am I wrong about your opinion? If so, then why would me using a vote on 4nxi3ty for scumhunting purposes be scummy?

Was your vote on Hinduragi unjust? It was in your first post, so where was your scumhunting before voting? Do you think hypocrisy is scummy?

My point about your read reasonning is that you posted a list of reads with summarized reasons. I looked at it and thought, hmm, that looks like a cheap way to pretend to be doing analysis without being able to be held to it. I challenged you on it. You gave a defense of it, and it looks like your defense was hastily concocted and holds no water.

Originally, I thought your defense of 4nxi3ty was scummy enough to investigate further. Now, it is the continued bad arguments and misreps and bad defenses that are solidifying my read.

FoS: Klazam

One town looking post from kiwieagle should not override what looked like a reasonable case you were building against kiwiweagle. No, I think it much more likely that you dropped the kiwieagle case to attempt to placate Faraday.

[kiwieagle]

Maybe he felt that Equinox was the more "tunneler" of the two?

I know Equinox better. This was addressed in my explanation post to Klazam of why I chose the Indecision slot specifically.

We are out of RVS... and he plants a random vote on Hinduragi

It was the middle of page 2. Nothing magical happened by that time. How can you declare RVS to be over by that point?

So yeah he claims that this is a failsafe way to find out if Equinox is scum.

Didn't say this. At all.
I said that she wouldn't kill me if she were scum on night one. I didn't say that she would be scum for me not dying on night one. I didn't say that she was town for me dying on night one. I simply said that if she was scum I wouldn't die on night one.

So...
now you think shes scum if she takes it?

NO
NOT AT ALL
WHERE DID I SAY THIS?
NO WHERE

now hes trying to buddy with Mina as well!

Do you not agree with my statement?

and now he thinks anxiety is scum because he called someone town and scum through interactions:

Nope. That's not what I said.

but there he states that its dumb to call someone scum for doing that

how do you even see that
there is no correlation
i asked him to explain

you are reaching to the fucking maximum

1. Mmk, though Equinox is not in the game. Indecision is.
2. Actually im pretty sure we were out of RVS

3.

I said that she wouldn't kill me if she were scum on night one. I didn't say that she would be scum for me not dying on night one. I didn't say that she was town for me dying on night one. I simply said that if she was scum I wouldn't die on night one.

Exactly! You proved me correct. I dont see what you try to disprove with that post.

4.

Equinox is the only person in the playerlist who I trust would take the deal as scum

and not kill me immediately after taking it.

HMM WHY DONT YOU READ

5. Do I agree with your statement which includes :

So, if they perform well after I offer to let them live through the night,

= your scum
Yes! I do!

6. The fuck did you say then?

Nevermind.

Unvote, Vote: Anxiety

Why exactly does the jase/faraday/indecision interaction feel like a specific number of scum and townie? What about that argument makes someone, although no one in particular, feel like a certain number of scum and town?

7. "He who asks for explanation for a statement said, thinks that statement is wrong" -Kiwieagle
Ok no but seriously, I see no other reason why you would ask in such a tone especially with the ""

[Nachomamma8]

One town looking post from kiwieagle should not override what looked like a reasonable case you were building against kiwiweagle. No, I think it much more likely that you dropped the kiwieagle case to attempt to placate Faraday.

I'd be williing to call kiwieagle town based entirely on that one post as well. My problem with Klazam at the moment is not that his read changed on one post, but it looks like he's switching a read on kiwi simply because he didn't want to fight Faraday on it.

[Nachomamma8]

1. Mmk, though Equinox is not in the game. Indecision is.

But honestly, does it matter? Equinox is still a player in the game. Equinox, under the name Indecision, is still reading and posting as if she was under the name Equinox. Thus, it is entirely possible to address separate parts of the hydra, even though it is technically one playerslot.

2. Actually im pretty sure we were out of RVS

Okay, this point really doesn't matter. Putting this away for the sake of simplicity unless you want to press it.

I said that she wouldn't kill me if she were scum on night one. I didn't say that she would be scum for me not dying on night one. I didn't say that she was town for me dying on night one. I simply said that if she was scum I wouldn't die on night one.

Yes. That is what I said. If she isn't scum, I won't necessarily die on night one. Obviously, it is only her honor holding her back from killing me on night one, and thus it's not a confirmation of her town status if I die tonight. This is not a "failsafe way to find if Equinox is scum or not".

HMM WHY DONT YOU READ

That quote doesn't meant that she would only take the deal as scum. It means that she would take the deal as BOTH scum and town, and stick to her honor.

Do I agree with your statement which includes : So, if they perform well after I offer to let them live through the night, = your scum
Yes! I do!

Do you or do you not agree with the statement that it is a strong hydra?

The fuck did you say then?

The problem was not that he found people town and scum through interactions, the problem was that he pointed to a group of people for no apparent reason and said "there are one scum and two town here". With the exception of wagon analysis, people normally find specific players scummy, and a group of people scum-containing.

7. "He who asks for explanation for a statement said, thinks that statement is wrong" -Kiwieagle
Ok no but seriously, I see no other reason why you would ask in such a tone especially with the ""

It sounded like he was trying to inflate his statement, which was essentially just an agreement post, with the "from personal experience" disclaimer. I'm not attacking his actual reasons (since they were mine), but I am questioning how he's coming to those reasons (see: Klazam).

[Nachomamma8]

Us?

VOTE: Nachomma

Anyway, Anxiety lynch feels too easy and I wont have any part in it.

Woah kid.

You're talking about avoiding an easy lynch, right? And yet... you're still trying to lynch me with this shit?

TRY HARDER SCUM

[Klazam]

I have a tendency to focus on one player and find everything scummy about that person, so when Faraday started calling Kiwi town, I was still in my tunnely mindset, so I just took a step back and slept on it. I reread, and... I changed my mind. It was post #263 and post # 288 that gave off that kind of tone to me.

Examples- I dont feel like going and looking for that thing in all my games, but i've seen people who go "I'm not scum or PR, so feel free to vote me". It's kind of hard to explain, but i find that kind of thing towny. Basically, its when not caring about whether that person lives or dies that makes me think that person is town. (Now I cant rely on that "tell" anymore, dammnit) Clear enough? I'd put kiwi as a 8 on a scale of where Conf Scum is 1 and Conf Town is 10.

I'm perfectly willing to fight with Faraday about why he thinks i'm scum, but as he havent really elaborated on that, I cant really say anything about it.

[Nachomamma8]

Not quite what I was looking for, but good enough for now.

Unvote, Vote: Timeater

[Hinduragi]

Ok, I read up, read some after work earlier today. I'm pretty sure I've caught up and understand what's going on but I'm skimming Zang's stuff. I remember he asked why I said his stuff was useless. I particularly don't think they're going to help him figure out alignment, at all. If I was scum and can make up ANY response I deem acceptable for town then I would use it. And, what's he going to do? Judge it as truth or lie? He can do that without asking me. A lot of the questions were about the most obvious shit too. Responding to that shit just pisses me off in general.

Anyways, back to business.

Unvote; Vote: Hinduragi

[Klazam]

I thought you were scummy for something a while ago or maybe it was during my reread, I don't really know. You've sort of just been "there" when I've been reading so I haven't paid you much attention. I'll go back to it later. For now, I've got to no-life Skyrim with the little free time have, sleep, go to work, sleep, go to a movie with a date, and I'll get back to you either during my break, before I go to work, or after all of that. I know Faraday will give me plenty of stuff to read through, though. I've been trying to spam but it's not working. I just checked and he has 77 fucking posts. I've got 20-something.

Could you do this? And I'm not even gonna comment on the self-vote.

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, this is gonna be one of those obvious questions. But obviously you're baiting it, so here we go:

what

[kiwieagle]

the fuck?

[Seraphim]

Seraphim content: coming soon to a theater near you.

[Faraday]

[Indecision]

VOTE: Faraday

Your last post was devoid of any useful protown content. Clearly a scumtell.