Mini 1270 - Stargate SG-1 Mafia

[Redacted]

4nxi3ty gets some mild scum posts for his posting on this page, he keeps going on about how he wants a PV lynch but is making strictly 0 effort to push for one, he's just here to register protest against my lynch.

[Redacted]

I was out to make him sound like a good lynch target because I had a scumread on him and wanted to get a bandwagon started.

This is at the top of page 3? Let's be slightly more blunt: you were out to make him sound scummy. It is not okay to do that in general, because being misleading is scummy, but doubly so when your read must be extremely weak. If you thought he was scummy, okay, but why did you feel the need to do more than lay out your reasoning and let people decide for themselves?

This seems for like a topic do discuss in MD post game but my basic reasoning is, bandwagons are good-> I have a scumread on someone early on in the game where I have nulls on everyone else due to lack of content so far-> get a bandwagon going on the person with the scum read.

And I make the person I want lynched most out as scummy because they are the person I want lynched most? Not really sure about your point here but again I'll discuss it in MD / Post game here but for now I'm just going to say it's clear we have differing playstyles.

[Redacted]

Timeater stop being useless, if you actually want me lynched then take Retro up on his offer.

Okay, show me where he did each of these things and I"ll hammer him: Massive IIoA, evasion, lying, flip-flopping, bad caes, massive filler.

Stop stance dancing around my wagon, I'm L-1 either you want my head or you don't.

Shit or get off the pot.

[Felmix]

Mmh.

This can go back if we need a deadline lynch. UNVOTE: [Redacted], VOTE: PeregrineV.

And I make the person I want lynched most out as scummy because they are the person I want lynched most? Not really sure about your point here but again I'll discuss it in MD / Post game here but for now I'm just going to say it's clear we have differing playstyles.

My point remains the same: you were deliberately misrepresenting his behaviour. That's scummy; town should not do that. That is not down to playstyle.

~ Elmo

[jerobbo]

Pretty sure it won't change anything but;

Name: George Hammond.

Role: Vanilla Townie.

Flavour: I've retired from SGC/Homeworld Security thus have no role.

I'd appreciate if the consensus is to lynch me that you guys give me a day so that I can dump all my notes / reads in thread tomorrow night when I'm on.

Ok so I know quoting role PM's is a massive no-no and you've paraphrased this. But the way you have laid this out and the language you have used makes me think this is fake. Looking at my own role, there are certain words and phrases you've used that I wouldn't expect. I won't say what but I'm sure I won't be the only one who picks up on this.

[Fennin]

Redacted's claim seems fine. Could be fake, as it looks like the sample role in the mod's first post but the only way to find out is to lynch him. I'm not ready to lynch someone over this. The whole case on Redacted seem forced. I read the whole thread again and don't see anything blatantly scummy on Redacted.

UNVOTE: [Redacted]

VOTE: PeregrineV

So far my reads :

malthusis : leaning scum
4nxi3ty : leaning scum
PeregrineV : leaning scum
Timeater : leaning town (but suspicious : overeager townie or smart scum, too early to tell)
Jerobbo : town

These are not definitive and I don't have reads on other players so far. But I'll support a lynch on the ones leaning scum, hence my vote.

[Fennin]

Ok so I know quoting role PM's is a massive no-no and you've paraphrased this. But the way you have laid this out and the language you have used makes me think this is fake. Looking at my own role, there are certain words and phrases you've used that I wouldn't expect. I won't say what but I'm sure I won't be the only one who picks up on this.

Well, he paraphrased it. So it's normal that you won't expect some words. IMO the role could be fake and made up so that scum doesn't have to use a fakeclaim provided by the mod. Looks really like the sample mod of the OP. But that's just a thought and not worth my vote.

[jerobbo]

Well, he paraphrased it. So it's normal that you won't expect some words. IMO the role could be fake and made up so that scum doesn't have to use a fakeclaim provided by the mod. Looks really like the sample mod of the OP. But that's just a thought and not worth my vote.

No its definitely not vote-worthy at all on it's own and I could be way off the mark but it's just not the language/wording I expected.

[Retrospective]

Fennin, how do you not have a read on me? More later after class.

[Timeater]

busy today

[Ravel]

Hammer before even a claim? There is absolutely no reason for you to be as sure as you are and it's becoming wearisome. Also this lynch is so popular that you wont even be needed my vote...

I agree with this, Timeater, I don't see what a lynch without a claim does. If he ends up being town, then what?

If the town is behind it, I will hammer anyone they support, including a town read of mine or even myself.

I don't see how hammering yourself is pro-town, so why do it? For all you know, "If the town is behind it" has scum in it.

+town points to Retro - seems genuine in his questions and points. I also really like this:

I'm trying to show everyone that we have absolutely no reason to rush this lynch and because there's nothing incriminating enough to lynch him. It's not like if we don't lynch him today we can't lynch him in a couple days (rl days not game days). You are literally trying to bullshit your way into getting us to shoot ourselves in the foot.

At this point, most of the argument against Redacted is not a good enough reason to lynch, including my own reason for suspecting him.

~My whole post seems too big for my liking, so I'll post the second part right after this

[Ravel]

For what it's worth, I agree with this; from my point of view, Timeater name-claimed and then largely based his reads based on reactions to that, with Redacted's pretty logical disagreement leading to OMGOBVSCUM and VMD's dubiously-reasoned support rewarded with OMGOBVTOWN respectively. Timeater's read on everyone else seems (if I remember correctly) to correlate exactly with how townish they thought the nameclaim was. Now, I daresay I had my own reasons for being on this wagon, and I'm amenable to being argued away from it.

I definitely agree with the first point since that's been my impression of some of his posts, although the on bold, I'm not so sure about. I'll have to read on that later.

With that said, Retro, Workdawg, Felmix and myself (with this post), have seen or agree with this. It kinda makes me think that there is scum here if Timeater is indeed town. Trying to discredit the towniest read of most people? It could be a little bit opportunistic for scum to point this out since imo town will agree with this (like I just did). I still think Timeater is town and if he does flip that, I'd look at one of you three as scum.

Name: George Hammond.

Role: Vanilla Townie.

Flavour: I've retired from SGC/Homeworld Security thus have no role.

@Redacted

- Does it say Vanilla Townie in your role? Also, does it say that you have no role because you retired? Or are you assuming that because it says you are retired?

[Workdawg]

@Timeater

- I don't know if it's your style or what, but you've managed to avoid answering my questions pretty consistently. How does his "derpiness" cause you to claim that your read is confirmed, and in the exact same paragraph, see it as fracturing? It doesn't make any sense. They completely contradict each other. 


Furthermore, this:

He's scum for other reasons - massive iioa, misreps (though they shouldn't be that important, evasion, lying, flip-flopping, making bad cases, and massive filler.

Examples and explanations on why they are scummy, now.

You don't want to "play tit-for-tat" with Retro because you prefer to post little posts and assume everyone will sheep you if you post a bunch? Or is it because you've accused Redacted of doing a bunch of stuff he hasn't done? Fuck that, I'm sick of you dodging me. You very well might be town, but this is bullshit. Man up and make your case. I will not be your sheep.

I definitely agree with the first point since that's been my impression of some of his posts, although the on bold, I'm not so sure about. I'll have to read on that later.
With that said, Retro, Workdawg, Felmix and myself (with this post), have seen or agree with this. It kinda makes me think that there is scum here if Timeater is indeed town. Trying to discredit the towniest read of most people? It could be a little bit opportunistic for scum to point this out since imo town will agree with this (like I just did). I still think Timeater is town and if he does flip that, I'd look at one of you three as scum.

What? It's scummy to point out the fact the Timeater is talking out his ass trying to push a lynch with insufficient evidence? It's scummy because town will agree with it? I hope town agrees that scummy actions are scummy. To call it a scumtell is pretty silly, IMO.


VOTE: Timeater

[4nxi3ty]

Workdawg, we don't time to pressure Tim for more information. Both redacted and timeater's lynch are easy for scum to jump on. I would much rather lynch a potential lurker scum(peregrinev) than potential active scum(tim,redact)

[Ravel]

I'm saying it's scummy because it plants doubt on the minds of people who see him as town which is what scum want to do when someone is generally seen as town.

[Workdawg]

Workdawg, we don't time to pressure Tim for more information. Both redacted and timeater's lynch are easy for scum to jump on. I would much rather lynch a potential lurker scum(peregrinev) than potential active scum(tim,redact)

I'm sorry you feel that way. There is still time to get information from him. I don't like Redacted's wagon that much right now, and I will not be voting PereV. Timeater has me much more nervous than either.

I'm saying it's scummy because it plants doubt on the minds of people who see him as town which is what scum want to do when someone is generally seen as town.

You seem to be defending him for no reason. Why should you be worried about anyone coming under suspicion. Do you know his alignment?

[Ravel]

no, but he is my strongest town read and I try to defend my strongest town read.

[malthusis]

Pretty sure it won't change anything but;

Name: George Hammond.

Role: Vanilla Townie.

Flavour: I've retired from SGC/Homeworld Security thus have no role.

I'd appreciate if the consensus is to lynch me that you guys give me a day so that I can dump all my notes / reads in thread tomorrow night when I'm on.

Ok so I know quoting role PM's is a massive no-no and you've paraphrased this. But the way you have laid this out and the language you have used makes me think this is fake. Looking at my own role, there are certain words and phrases you've used that I wouldn't expect. I won't say what but I'm sure I won't be the only one who picks up on this.

I agree with this. It should be obvious from looking at the one first page that nowhere in the one one the first page does it say Vanilla Townie. There is no role name anywhere in the PM, and my role backs this up. Ravel seems to have picked up on this too.

It makes me a bit uneasy, and I'm fairly confident on my vote for Redacted.

Could someone sum up the case on PereV for me? All I see is a lot of IIOA, which isn't enough to measure up to [Redacted] right now.

[malthusis]

You don't want to "play tit-for-tat" with Retro because you prefer to post little posts and assume everyone will sheep you if you post a bunch? Or is it because you've accused Redacted of doing a bunch of stuff he hasn't done? Fuck that, I'm sick of you dodging me. You very well might be town, but this is bullshit. Man up and make your case. I will not be your sheep.

You did look at #198, right? That pretty much sums up the case which he's saying.

[Retrospective]

With that said, Retro, Workdawg, Felmix and myself (with this post), have seen or agree with this. It kinda makes me think that there is scum here if Timeater is indeed town. Trying to discredit the towniest read of most people? It could be a little bit opportunistic for scum to point this out since imo town will agree with this (like I just did). I still think Timeater is town and if he does flip that, I'd look at one of you three as scum.

I think you might be right except for the wrong reason. Anyone who was voting Redacted but took no heed to how bad the wagon actually was and is now rescending it look pretty bad atm. (Namely the hyrda) Ravel, I am about 95% sure Time is town. I just don't want him to have any power because he will make us lose.

@Work: Before this goes any further, Time is not scum. He's just a bad player. This is how he plays as town. Check out this iso of him pushing on two different people in our last game. (Both were obvious town and so was Time) Am I trying to discredit him? Absolutely. Am I advocating his lynch? No. Just ignore him and the only damage he can do is his own vote.

@Anxiety: Also, I don't see Time as an easy lynch at all because I will fight it HARD. And if you think I faught hard to stop the Redacted wagon when I wasn't even confident if he was town, wait until you see me try to stop a lynch on someone I actually believe is.

@malth: Read my case, it's not that long. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3600117

[Retrospective]

Also you guys should stop trying to get a read of the syntax Redacted uses for his claim. If I understand how mini-themes work, all scum got fake claims from the host. So if he is scum, he's paraphrasing from the exact context any town player would have. If he's town, he's paraphrasing from the exact context any other town player would have. See my point?

[4nxi3ty]

retro, that's true but I think you will be the only one to fight because I am still a little unsure about timeater.

[Retrospective]

Oh and if you're looking at the Time ISO, I am one of the heads of Odysseus. (The guy who made him leave that game)

[Felmix]

It kinda makes me think that there is scum here if Timeater is indeed town. Trying to discredit the towniest read of most people? It could be a little bit opportunistic for scum to point this out since imo town will agree with this (like I just did). I still think Timeater is town and if he does flip that, I'd look at one of you three as scum.

I don't think anyone's has referenced that post saying Timeater's scum. There is a difference between saying someone's suspicious and saying they're making a bad argument; scum will want to discredit town in the sense of making them appear suspicious, but very much not in the sense of making a bad argument. If a town player makes a bad argument, scum's natural move is actually to quietly agree with it.

- Elmo

[Retrospective]

It kinda makes me think that there is scum here if Timeater is indeed town. Trying to discredit the towniest read of most people? It could be a little bit opportunistic for scum to point this out since imo town will agree with this (like I just did). I still think Timeater is town and if he does flip that, I'd look at one of you three as scum.

I don't think anyone's has referenced that post saying Timeater's scum. There is a difference between saying someone's suspicious and saying they're making a bad argument; scum will want to discredit town in the sense of making them appear suspicious, but very much not in the sense of making a bad argument. If a town player makes a bad argument, scum's natural move is actually to quietly agree with it.

- Elmo

Exactly. This is what I think might have been happening with Redacted. I'm going to need to look carefully at everyone reasons for being on the Redacted wagon becuase the natural town response to time's crap is to defend Redacted, not vote him.

Sorry for all the posts in rapid succession, I'll chime out for a bit so other people can talk.