Mini 1270 - Stargate SG-1 Mafia

[Felmix]

Could someone sum up the case on PereV for me? All I see is a lot of IIOA, which isn't enough to measure up to [Redacted] right now.

Really? What do you think are the strongest points against Redacted?

- Elmo

[malthusis]

Could someone sum up the case on PereV for me? All I see is a lot of IIOA, which isn't enough to measure up to [Redacted] right now.

Really? What do you think are the strongest points against Redacted?

- Elmo

*facepalm* You can't just look at #198, can you?

@Redacted: You don't seem to understand Timeeater's case against you, so I'll try to sum it up as well as saying why I agree with him.

Basically, you like opportunistic scum jumping on what seemed like an easy target at the time, and then when questioned, shout "SPECULATION SPECULATION SPECULATION therefore Time is scum". When that breaks down, you lurk, hope that Anxiety's wagon kicks off, and when it doesn't, casually come back and start up a total non-sequiter and totally ignore what retarded things you did early on.

If you actually think you have a chance with you case, answer me one question: What scum motivation is there for Time to claim? I don't think there's even the slightest. At best it's null, therefore your case didn't even have the slightest backing behind it.

On a slightly related note, it's utterly hilarious you saying "Timeater's framing himself as town" when you're framing him as scum

Vote [Redacted]

That's L-1, I'll post opinions on the others later today.

That basically sums up my thoughts on Redacted. Redacted looked like scum who tried to mislynch an easy target, then backs away and distances himself from it as soon as it doesn't work. The claim really isn't helping him look any better.

[malthusis]

@malth: Read my case, it's not that long. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3600117

Ironically enough, your case makes you seem like you support a [Redacted] lynch nearly as much as PereV. You're basically saying that beyond the IIOA, PereV is using a chainsaw defence to protect his buddy, right?

[Citizen Karne]

If the town is behind it, I will hammer anyone they support, including a town read of mine or even myself.

I don't see how hammering yourself is pro-town, so why do it? For all you know, "If the town is behind it" has scum in it.

It's part of the theory that underlies this account's playstyle. I feel that town stalls too much at L-1, which causes scum to slip from the noose, and also keeps the town from getting more information. By getting rid of that stalling, I give the town access to more information.

Someone

has to get lynched day one, and lynches are the only certain information we have. They are extremely valuable.

I'm loving the switch to PeregrineV, by the way. I'll post more analysis of the last few pages later, but I have to go to class now.

[PeregrineV]

Your vote on jerobbo, is the beginning of a pattern of behaviour that continues with your view on CKarne. Also, I don't see why your vote is still on Jerobbo and not ck.

Jerobo proposed an activity that generally does NOT benefit town, and more often benefits scum.

Karne announced his playstyle, presumably for the sake of discussion.

Would you like me to unvote him?

So uhh... I didn't propose any activity whatsoever, what are you talking about? Are you trying to make out that I wanted everyone to claim, because if so you're misrepresenting me a great deal and I have to take issue with that.

I said why I thought timeater's claim could make him Town. nothing more, nothing less. I didn't 'propose' anything, certainly not any kind of 'activity'. This stinks.

Couple of big assumptions here, but..

I'm gonna assume that good characters from the show are all Town. And I'm also going to assume that Colonel Mitchell as one of the main characters is definitely in the game. No-one has yet come out and said that they are actually Mitchell as well, so right now I'm inclined to believe Timeater and mark him down as Town for now.

And it has got the discussion going, so it's all good I guess.

This would actually make the game breakable by flavor, which is not generally how the games are designed. It seems like you are encouraging that mindset for whatever reasons, when chances are it's not the case.

Unvote.
Vote:Jerobbo

You're right. I should not have used the word "proposed", as the proposal did not start with you.

[smargaret]

Votecount 1.10

1. PeregrineV - 4 (4nxi3ty, Retrospective, Felmix, Fennin,)
2. Felmix - 0
3. Timeater - 2 ([Redacted], Workdawg)
4. Workdawg - 0
5. Ravel - 0
6. Vala Mal Doran - 0
7. Retrospective - 0
8. malthusis - 0
9. [Redacted] - 4 (Vala Mal Doran, Timeater, jerobbo, malthusis)
10. Fennin - 0
11. 4nxi3ty - 0
12. jerobbo - 1 (PeregrineV)
13. Citizen Karne - 0

Not Voting - 2 (Citizen Karne, Ravel)

Votes to Lynch: 7
Deadline: 12:00 pm est on Friday, Nov 25

[Workdawg]

@Malth

- I wasn't looking for a response from someone who knows how to play. I'm looking to get a response from Time since he seems to like to ignore me. 

Spoiler: Quick Analysis of Redacted's wagon (when he was at L-1)

Fennin

RVS vote that has stayed the whole game.

Notes Redacted has reached L-2 in post 149 and accuses him of lurking.

Justification for staying on the wagon in post 173.

Vala

Vote in post 40, for Redacted's reaction to and vote on Time.

Some more comments on Redacted in 195, roughly saying she's not totally sure Redacted is scum.

Time

Uhh... yeah. Initial vote in post 61... a few BS points and the misrep comment.

Follow up with 100% scum comment in 69.

Many other posts... I particularly like 234 where he accuses Redacted of 7 different scumtells without elaborating on them.

Felmix

Initial vote in post 119 for reasons in 107 (misrepping Time about the Bullying thing).

Felmix has changed their vote to PereV since...

jerobbo

Initial vote in 148 with mild suspicion mentioned in 121.

121 - "feels like exaggerating Time's behavior"

148 - stalling and lurking, warrants more pressure.

Post 176 offers further justification in that he was expecting better posts after some V/LA?

malthusis

Initial vote in 198, for the misrep, distancing when it fails and then lurking. After lurking Redacted ignored his early indiscretions. 

Comments:

malth is actually the only one who seems to have a decent case here (and maybe I'm biased because Time is pissing me off right now). Everyone else seems to have gotten on the wagon for fairly insignificant reasons. Maybe it's just that no one else bothered to express it as well as malth, but I don't know.

If this is a bad wagon, my bets on scum would  be Fennin or jerobbo.

Felmix and Vala both seem town to me... Time is annoying. malth hasn't really posted all that much.

[Workdawg]

Sorry about the awkward line returns in the spoiler above, since I can't post from work, I type up an email to myself with thoughts, then copy/paste it in from my phone. Apparently my email adds those spaces and it's a huge pain to try and edit them out on my phone. :/

@Fennin

- What about PereV has you changing your vote to him? You explained why you got off Redacted's wagon, but not why you switched to PereV. You've got 3 people leaning scum there, but I don't really see any place where you give reasons for any of them. 


Also, I realize Felmix asked for a top 3 list. At this point, I don't know that I really have a top three yet.

The interaction between Time/Vala has me pretty weary, but I haven't really noticed scumminess from Vala and Time is pissing me off, but I'm not sure if he's scum or just annoying.

I've pretty much convinced myself that Redacted's wagon is not very good, but I think he's leaning a bit scummy. I guess I'd be able to get on that wagon if I had to for a lynch.

Based on the previously posted analysis of Redacted' wagon, possibly Fennin (especially with his convenient switch to PereV) or jerobbo.


CK, Felmix and Retro seem pretty town to me.

[PeregrineV]

I'm looking into my weaker reads, starting with who I think is the most scummy (PereV). I will be looking into my nulls in the post following this. (Probably end up being sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning) I will say that I don't like malthusis' last post at all so I'll be looking deeper into his play next.

So this is an iso that you examine to get a better read on me. And there are more coming.

Peregrine Post 59 This vote is absolutely horrid. It's outside of the RVS and the exactly the opposite conclusion everyone should have recieved from jerobbo's 54. PereV ignores all the good analysis and the fact that this is the first person who truly explained why Time's claim was a towntell. Instead, he focuses on the fact that this would somehow break the game through flavor. How is this even a scumtell? Apparently it's a strong enough one to keep this vote throughout this game. Jerobbo was using this to semi-clear someone so is he doing it because he's scum whiteknighting or is it scum trying to protect his super town partner? I can go on and on as to why 54 screams town but I don't think I need to.

You'll have to point out the analysis Jerobbo did in his post 54. I didn't see anything like that.
I didn't think it explained why Time's claim was a towntell, but if you want to that's your prerogative.
I actually explained why it was bad in a followup post. Why did you ignore those when addressing my earlier post here?
I voted him, I didn't say or even hint at the rest, so we can take those as your feelings about Jerobbo's post.

PeregrineV post 93 Now I actually gave this post towncred when I first read it. Originally I viewed it as PereV explaining how flavor works in games and figured there wouldn't be much reason for scum to go into so much detail to help a new players understand how to play the setup better. Although, I saw this as IIoA and skipped it when I was catching up. Basically the whole reason behind this post is not to help town but rather to explain why Time's nameclaim isn't a towntell and that jerobbo is somehow still scum for saying it was. I see this as pretty scummy too considering he's still pushing on my two highest town reads.

I was explaining how flavor works in games. Good catch.
Actually, the post was specifically for Jerobbo, and to help explain why his assumptions in Jerobbo 54 were incorrect. The resulting logical deduction is that claiming a "good guy" in a theme game does not make you town.
Please give me the post number where I said Jerobbo is scum.
And from a simple vote and dialogue with Jerobbo, I'm now "pushing" Jerobbo. Interesting transition by you in your own post.

PeregrineV post 96I don't like this at all. However, I don't really have anything I can really say about it besides irks my gut after following the above quoted posts. At this point in the game PereV has posted four times. Three of which underrmine Time's influence but don't come out and say anything against him. Instead, he's voting the person who made the strongest pro-time case.

So this irks your gut that I call Time out on his play?

This is what I'm talking about. You can't make all these baseless generalities and then say you wont play tit for tat with me when I ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

Before this goes any further, Time is not scum. He's just a bad player.

And then your "case" shifts to how often I've posted?
And by strongest "pro-Time case", do you mean the strongest case for Time being scum, or the strongest case for Time begin town?
So here your case is transitioning again. Or you're trying to convince yourself.

you think im scum?

Don't know yet, but making absolute statements like that will be viewed with a skeptical eye, if you know what I mean. And craplogic will be called on, if I catch it.

I think time caught on to the negative vibe and asked. This is scummy because the tone behind all previous posts are very anti-time and when asked he doesn't know yet. Makes some 'I'll catch your craplogic threat' that is super empty considering I think most of Time's logic this game has been exaggerated imensely and a lot of it is faulty. (Sorry Time)

Yet, it now looks to me like you decided to try to make a case on me because you thought I wasn't here and wouldn't respond, otherwise, you could have asked me about it. I've managed to have dialogs with Karne, Time and Jerobbo as I try to figure out their alignments. You made no attempt to do so with me.

Absolutely nothing stands out after this except for the fact that PereV asked anxiety for reads even though he's yet to give any finite ones himself.

Sorry if this was too long, I tried to keep it short. In any case, I think there's more than enough here to warrant a vote. UNVOTE: , VOTE: PereV Also anyone who was following my logic on Fennin's early posts should notice that this is extremley similar just extended throughout the entire game rather than one post. The fact that he has not openly FoS'd Time is worrysome as well as the fact that he is still voting Jerobbo. Something I noticed that supports the Redacted wagon even though I don't want to: PereV hasn't said a word about any of the business with Redacted despite him being main focus of this game. I'm serious, go look. He avoids the most popular topic in this game completely. There's a tell for this I'll explain if you'd like. Anyway, it makes their scum team very likely. And even if Redacted is town, this is still a scumtell.

This part is obvious. I'm scum with Redacted, but even if he somehow flips town, I'm still scum. Nice CYA.

Now, obviously, making a case on me doesn't make you scum.
Making a bad case does make you seem scummy.
Making an even worse case on 4 posts, yet doing the same thing (calling out Time on his play), and ignoring any other posts I made seems borderline criminal.

But, I'll give you a chance to clarify, now that you've been able to read more of the game.

[PeregrineV]

If the town is behind it, I will hammer anyone they support, including a town read of mine or even myself.

I don't see how hammering yourself is pro-town, so why do it? For all you know, "If the town is behind it" has scum in it.

It's part of the theory that underlies this account's playstyle. I feel that town stalls too much at L-1, which causes scum to slip from the noose, and also keeps the town from getting more information. By getting rid of that stalling, I give the town access to more information.

Someone

has to get lynched day one, and lynches are the only certain information we have. They are extremely valuable.

I'm loving the switch to PeregrineV, by the way. I'll post more analysis of the last few pages later, but I have to go to class now.

Karne, the problem I have with your "no-vote hammer-only" playstyle is that ou expect me to believe that if you had six votes, you would hammer yourself as scum or town?

[malthusis]

@PereV: I know you're having fun beating on Retro's case, but who do you honestly think is scum right now? The last time you posted something about anyone being scum was a week ago with jerobbo, and that was close to being a RVS vote. You should have some opinions since then.

[PeregrineV]

... ...

*looks at pv wagon*
*looks at town*
*looks at watch*

*looks for bus*
*looks for scum*
*sees nothing*

*pushes town off redacted planet through stargate onto pv planet*

*looks at redacted planet*
*sees no alien counter-resistance*

*looks at pv planet*
*sees one friendly force*

*looks at bus with 'planet pv' written on the side*
*sees no alien forces*

Anxeity

Anxiety was intentionally playing dumb. PEOPLE ARE SO QUICK TO PASS OFF DERP PLAY AS INEXPERIENCE. SO QUICK. And I'm tired of it. Just because he acts clueless doesn't mean he's town. My gut still has anxiety as scum. Especially after looking at his play in another ongoing game, which appears to somewhat competent. His reaction is like a deer in headlights. Its a scummy reaction. Though I can be a deer in headlights when I'm being tunneled too. FUCKIT! Gut still says he's scum. Roar.

This read is better than your Redacted read.

Unvote.
Vote: Anxiety

@Anxiety- I'd like to hear your thoughts on Retro.
Also, do you believe that town Karne or scum Karne would hammer himself were he at L-1? Why or why not?

[PeregrineV]

@PereV: I know you're having fun beating on Retro's case, but who do you honestly think is scum right now? The last time you posted something about anyone being scum was a week ago with jerobbo, and that was close to being a RVS vote. You should have some opinions since then.

Well, part of it depends on how Retro responds.

Right now I suspect Anxiety for overall non-play.

I like Time for town, but that's more gut based.

TBH, I do better later game when I have more info.

[4nxi3ty]

@pv, Is non-play your only reason for voting me?
- I am liking Retro's content so far.
-based solely on CK's avatar and sig I would say both townKarne and scumKarne would selfhammer, but seeing as I haven't played with him before I don't really know.

@malth, what do you think of PV's play so far
-particulary his pressure on jerrobo, his suspicion of ck's playstyle, and his recent vote of me.

[PeregrineV]

@pv, Is non-play your only reason for voting me?
- I am liking Retro's content so far.
-based solely on CK's avatar and sig I would say both townKarne and scumKarne would selfhammer, but seeing as I haven't played with him before I don't really know.

@malth, what do you think of PV's play so far
-particulary his pressure on jerrobo, his suspicion of ck's playstyle, and his recent vote of me.

Well, let's see, he comes in with a huge update commenting on 20+ posts. Where any of them yours?

He said this about you coming in:

4nxi3ty: 7 - I actually surprised myself at how high 4nx ended up being. His early game appeared newbtown but since then he's made more logical sense. I like where he's going on PereV atm.

You didn't ask him about it, and it seems pretty flimsy townread reasons.

And he mentioned almost every other player. And you had no comment on ANY of it.

I have 21 posts.

@malth, what do you think of PV's play so far
-particulary his pressure on jerrobo, his suspicion of ck's playstyle, and his recent vote of me.

He has 25 posts.
*crickets*

See what I mean?

[4nxi3ty]

^Can you be more specific, it looks like you are implying that me and retro are tied together as scum based on how I didn't comment on one post; If that is the case why didn't you just say that from the beginning instead of being vague?

Also, can you answer my first question:Is non-play your only reason for voting me?

[PeregrineV]

^Can you be more specific, it looks like you are implying that me and retro are tied together as scum based on how I didn't comment on one post; If that is the case why didn't you just say that from the beginning instead of being vague?

Also, can you answer my first question:Is non-play your only reason for voting me?

Specifically, you've mentioned three things about my 21 posts, most of which were topic related.
You've mentioned nothing about Retro's 25 posts, which, at least in the beginning, covered all conversations.

I don't know if you or him is scum yet, that's why we are playing.

Also, no, not just your non-play (which sounds like you are admitting to it ). You are scummier than Jerobbo, if that helps you.

[Redacted]

I agree with the general points of Redacted's idea (Having a townish sounding name in a series DOES NOT mean they are town), but not necessarily the Timeater is scum conclusion. The nameclaim is null for the moment, and if anyone has the same name, now's the time to claim it.

Timeater's overreaction tunneling for it sort of makes it suspicious, but I've seen many cases where town tunnel on town for attacking them (in fact, it just happened in my last finished game).
......
......
Timeater: town lean
Redacted: town lean

Into

@Redacted: You don't seem to understand Timeeater's case against you, so I'll try to sum it up as well as saying why I agree with him.

Basically, you like opportunistic scum jumping on what seemed like an easy target at the time, and then when questioned, shout "SPECULATION SPECULATION SPECULATION therefore Time is scum". When that breaks down, you lurk, hope that Anxiety's wagon kicks off, and when it doesn't, casually come back and start up a total non-sequiter and totally ignore what retarded things you did early on.
.......

Vote [Redacted]

When I orginally made my attack on Time he generally agreed with the points that I made, was getting weird vibes from Times play and listed me as leaning town but when a serious wagon on me gets going he turns around and says I'm scum and that he agrees with Time and votes me up to L-1 and calls me previous actions (which he had previously agreed with) retarded, all speculation and scummy.

That seems very very oppertunistic, switching your opinions/previous statements to put me at L-1 to force a claim.

[Redacted]

And to clarify there are no actual posts in between those two posts I quoted he went from one to the other with no intervening comments.

[Retrospective]

Ughhhhh PereV's post is so horrid I don't even want to reply T-T Guys, I'm sorry this is going to be a wall but I don't know how else to reply to it. You guys can actually skip this whole post if you want because I'm going to post a TL:DR after this post outlining exactly why I think PereV is scum.

Peregrine Post 59 This vote is absolutely horrid. It's outside of the RVS and the exactly the opposite conclusion everyone should have recieved from jerobbo's 54. PereV ignores all the good analysis and the fact that this is the first person who truly explained why Time's claim was a towntell. Instead, he focuses on the fact that this would somehow break the game through flavor. How is this even a scumtell? Apparently it's a strong enough one to keep this vote throughout this game. Jerobbo was using this to semi-clear someone so is he doing it because he's scum whiteknighting or is it scum trying to protect his super town partner? I can go on and on as to why 54 screams town but I don't think I need to.

[1] You'll have to point out the analysis Jerobbo did in his post 54. I didn't see anything like that.
[2] I didn't think it explained why Time's claim was a towntell, but if you want to that's your prerogative.
[3] I actually explained why it was bad in a followup post. Why did you ignore those when addressing my earlier post here?
[4] I voted him, I didn't say or even hint at the rest, so we can take those as your feelings about Jerobbo's post.

[1] You're exactly right, you didn't. And that's exactly what I meant when I said "PereV ignores all the good analysis and the fact that this is the first person who truly explained why Time's claim was a towntell. Instead, he focuses on the fact that this would somehow break the game through flavor."
[2] Are you kidding? Take another look. jerobbo's post had one purpose and one purpose only: to call Time town
[3] Because you didn't actually explain why in a follow up post.
[4] -.- If you vote someone, you think they're scum. When I said "jerobbo was using this to semi-clear someone so is he doing it because he's scum whiteknighting or is it scum trying to protect his super town partner?" I meant exactly what it says. There are only two scum possible perspectives from jerobbo's post so I was asking you which one you believed enough to vote him.

PeregrineV post 93 Now I actually gave this post towncred when I first read it. Originally I viewed it as PereV explaining how flavor works in games and figured there wouldn't be much reason for scum to go into so much detail to help a new players understand how to play the setup better. Although, I saw this as IIoA and skipped it when I was catching up. Basically the whole reason behind this post is not to help town but rather to explain why Time's nameclaim isn't a towntell and that jerobbo is somehow still scum for saying it was. I see this as pretty scummy too considering he's still pushing on my two highest town reads.

I was explaining how flavor works in games. Good catch.
[1] Actually, the post was specifically for Jerobbo, and to help explain why his assumptions in Jerobbo 54 were incorrect. The resulting logical deduction is that claiming a "good guy" in a theme game does not make you town.
[2] Please give me the post number where I said Jerobbo is scum.
[3] And from a simple vote and dialogue with Jerobbo, I'm now "pushing" Jerobbo. Interesting transition by you in your own post.

[1] This post implies you didn't think jerobbo is scum even though you were voting him.
[2] How about the post where you VOTE HIM?
[3] Um...Are you dense? If you're voting someone and call them scum, you're pushing their lynch. There's no 'translation by me' but thanks for that.

PeregrineV post 96I don't like this at all. However, I don't really have anything I can really say about it besides irks my gut after following the above quoted posts. At this point in the game PereV has posted four times. Three of which underrmine Time's influence but don't come out and say anything against him. Instead, he's voting the person who made the strongest pro-time case.

So this irks your gut that I call Time out on his play?

This is what I'm talking about. You can't make all these baseless generalities and then say you wont play tit for tat with me when I ask you to put your money where your mouth is.

Before this goes any further, Time is not scum. He's just a bad player.

[1] And then your "case" shifts to how often I've posted?
[2] And by strongest "pro-Time case", do you mean the strongest case for Time being scum, or the strongest case for Time begin town?
[3] So here your case is transitioning again. Or you're trying to convince yourself.

[1] Um what?
[2] I am of course talking about your vote on Jero. -.-
[3] What?

you think im scum?

Don't know yet, but making absolute statements like that will be viewed with a skeptical eye, if you know what I mean. And craplogic will be called on, if I catch it.

I think time caught on to the negative vibe and asked. This is scummy because the tone behind all previous posts are very anti-time and when asked he doesn't know yet. Makes some 'I'll catch your craplogic threat' that is super empty considering I think most of Time's logic this game has been exaggerated imensely and a lot of it is faulty. (Sorry Time)

[1] Yet, it now looks to me like you decided to try to make a case on me because you thought I wasn't here and wouldn't respond, otherwise, you could have asked me about it. I've managed to have dialogs with Karne, Time and Jerobbo as I try to figure out their alignments. You made no attempt to do so with me.

[1] What the fuck? First of all this has absolutely nothing to do with the section you quoted and secondly did you just say the only reason why I'm pushing on you is because I thought you would be easy beacuse you lurk? I don't have to ask you questions to call you scum. Nothing you've done before this post warranted questions.

Absolutely nothing stands out after this except for the fact that PereV asked anxiety for reads even though he's yet to give any finite ones himself.

Sorry if this was too long, I tried to keep it short. In any case, I think there's more than enough here to warrant a vote. UNVOTE: , VOTE: PereV Also anyone who was following my logic on Fennin's early posts should notice that this is extremley similar just extended throughout the entire game rather than one post. The fact that he has not openly FoS'd Time is worrysome as well as the fact that he is still voting Jerobbo. Something I noticed that supports the Redacted wagon even though I don't want to: PereV hasn't said a word about any of the business with Redacted despite him being main focus of this game. I'm serious, go look. He avoids the most popular topic in this game completely. There's a tell for this I'll explain if you'd like. Anyway, it makes their scum team very likely. And even if Redacted is town, this is still a scumtell.

[1] This part is obvious. I'm scum with Redacted, but even if he somehow flips town, I'm still scum. Nice CYA.

Now, obviously, making a case on me doesn't make you scum.
[2] Making a bad case does make you seem scummy.
Making an even worse case on 4 posts, yet doing the same thing (calling out Time on his play), and ignoring any other posts I made seems borderline criminal.

But, I'll give you a chance to clarify, now that you've been able to read more of the game.

[1] This is actually exactly what I am saying. Want me to explain the tell?
[2] There's nothing in this case that is even remotely bad. I posted it like 3-4 days ago and since then people have only agreed and joined the wagon.

Conclusion post incoming.

[Retrospective]

Reasons why I think PereV is scum:

[1] This: "Yet, it now looks to me like you decided to try to make a case on me because you thought I wasn't here and wouldn't respond" If he actually thinks I did this, he would be voting me beacuse there's only one side that makes cases on people who wont be there to respond and that's scum. The fact that he isn't proves that this defense is BS so why is it here?

[2] The early vote on jerobbo because PereV ignored the good analysis and said nameclaim would break the game and so he voted jerobbo. There is no reason to vote someone for breaking the game by flavor and jerobbo wasn't even advocating it. If you don't believe me, take a look.

[3] This is a big one, it is clear from PereV's reply that he forgot that he voted jerobbo and completely forgot his reason for doing so. I cannot think of a single reason a town player would forget something like that if they actually believed in their read. This implies scum perspective. Ask me for the places that prove this if you can't find them yourself.

[4] According to PereV, this post is "Actually, the post was specifically for Jerobbo, and to help explain why his assumptions in Jerobbo 54 were incorrect." despite the fact that PereV is currently voting him. I have a hard time understanding why PereV would do this for someone they think is scum especially if it is the ONLY reason for pushing on them. This again implies that PereV does not actually believe his own reasoning for the jero vote/forgot he placed it

[5] Avoiding everything to do with Redacted like the plague despite it being the biggest wagon and the main topic for everyone except PereV. PereV is literally the only person in this game who had not commented about Redacted until just recently (after his wagon died) I think this is one of two things: Not wanting to hop on a town wagon and letting Time lynch town OR complete buddy avoidance

[6] At several points on PereV's rebuttal, he accused me of 'translating' what really happened. This happened when I said that PereV is was pushing because he had his vote placed on him. This is empty. PereV is trying to invent places to say I am misrepping him to try to make my case against him weaker rather than actually reply to it. It happen again when I accused PereV of not actually calling Time out on his crap despite saying he would do so. He actually removed that one line where I did that from his quote and then said I was translating him again.

[7] The ratio of IIoA/nothing posts to actual content is stunningly high. I urge you to take a look at PereV's ISO and ask why almost half the posts are talking about flavor instead of what is going on in the game.

[8] This one is rather weak but I can't ignore it. All this CK business is empty. Pushing on him for play style isn't legitmate scumhunting and he is still doing it now. Saying that CK wouldn't self hammer and pretending to scumhunt Anxiety by asking about CK's meta.

Basically, tons and tons of evidence of not real scumhunting. The only redeeming point in PereV's favor is the fact he did not realize that jerobbo's 54 was pro-time. This destroys my chainsaw theory but at the same time offers a new point: There is no way PereV is atually reading these posts. This is especially scummy if you realize that PereV quoted this very post when he voted jerobbo.

[jerobbo]

The Pere case is Ok. However I'm wary that if I vote him it could subconsciously be an OMGUS vote because I was annoyed about him misrepresenting me earlier.

That said, number [3] on Retro's case could be a pretty big scum-tell I reckon. When you're Town you never forget who and why you've voted for someone because it's your only reason for being around, to find the scum.

number [5] and [7] are valid as well, I think most people should have picked up on these. Especially the avoidance of the main topic of discussion. Bit weird.

The rest are pretty ehhh in my view, but my general gut feel from his ISO is one of suspicion.

Now, going back to point [5] the avoidance of the Redacted wagon:

^Can you be more specific, it looks like you are implying that me and retro are tied together as scum based on how I didn't comment on one post; If that is the case why didn't you just say that from the beginning instead of being vague?

Also, can you answer my first question:Is non-play your only reason for voting me?

Specifically, you've mentioned three things about my 21 posts, most of which were topic related.
You've mentioned nothing about Retro's 25 posts, which, at least in the beginning, covered all conversations.

Are you using this as a scumtell? Cause if you're saying him ignoring Retro's posts is bad, then you ignoring the whole Redacted wagon is surely worse?

In fact, the only things you've commented on in regards to redacted are:

So we can flip this? Lynch you, and if you are town then shoot/lynch/poop on Redacted?

and then:

@Time- About Redacted, I'll have to go back and look at his posts specifically.

Which you have of course failed to do yet, which again backs up Retro's point [3] that you do not have scumhunting in the front of your mind.

Unvote, vote PeregrineV

[4nxi3ty]

PeregrineV, what are your thoughts on malthusis?

[malthusis]

@Redacted: Same post:

Timeater's overreaction tunneling for it sort of makes it suspicious, but I've seen many cases where town tunnel on town for attacking them (in fact, it just happened in my last finished game). I put both on a town lean

for now.

I see no quick change. While it was only the next post, it was nearly 5 DAYS of time in between them.

Anyways, the main points for me thinking you were scum were AFTER this post, right around when I posted again, i.e lurking combined with backing away from case. I thought you were town before that, and after that I thought you were scum. I see no conflict.

[Workdawg]

In response to PereV and Retro.

Spoiler: Point by Point from 294

1.1. Retro(sorta), though he's assuming PereV just ignored the analysis when it's possible he just didn't read it that way. jerobbo makes many assumptions, not pointing out facts.
1.2. Retro(sorta), same as above, if the assumptions are correct.
1.3. PereV, Post 93.
1.4. PereV, Retro presents a false dilemma here. This isn't an either-or scenario like he implies. PereV's vote could have been a pressure vote, which eliminates the cases where jerobbo MUST be scum whiteknighting OR defending his partner.
2 (1,2). PereV, again, pressure vote. All of Retro's points in this section assume that PereV MUST think jerobbo is scum. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I've voted for someone I wasn't sure was scum to get a reaction out of them for the express purpose of getting a better read on them. A lot of the time, they end up looking more town afterwards.
2.3. PereV, one vote is "pushing for a lynch"? Come on now. I think Retro is stretching to try and make PereV look scummy now. Making a case is MAYBE pushing for a lynch, IMO. I wouldn't call it "pushing" until there are multiple posts trying to convince others to vote.
3. Null... it looks like PereV has confused some or Retro's posts as attacks against him when they weren't even talking about PereV.
4. Null... I agree with Retro's WTF. I'm not really sure what either of them are getting at.
5.1. Retro, I suppose it is a bit curious that PereV hasn't commented on the Redacted case.
5.2. PereV, there ARE bad parts of this case, as I think I've covered above.

Overall, I actually do think this is a shitty case. It's based almost entirely on the fact that Retro think's it's impossible to pressure vote someone you aren't sure is scum. I don't hate the idea of PereV putting some pressure on jerobbo for seemingly defending Time. I do think that PereV could have followed it up a little bit more but his activity up until recently has been lacking in general. 5.1 is really the only thing I see as scummy in all of that, and it's possible he just felt the case was shitty.

Spoiler: Retro's case in 295

1. This is a fair point.
2. Meh.
3. Please provide this proof, I didn't notice it.
4. Ignoring the idea of a pressure vote.
5. Also a fair point. "Avoiding it like the plague" seems like you are trying to make it sound more scummy than you should, though.
6. I already covered the whole "pushing for jerobbo's lynch above. IMO, he has not done this. I can't seem to find the place where PereV removed a line from your quote about Time though, can you point this out?
7. This appears to be a blatant lie. I see 3-4 posts where PereV talks about flavor/theme. I see very little IIOA as well. He has been short, but I don't see this "stunningly high" proportion you claim exists.
8. Now you are just stretching...

I'm not really sure what to think. PereV is a bad wagon and I'm trying to figure out if Retro is misguided town, or scum trying to push a mislynch.

Still waiting on a response from Time, but he was busy yesterday.