A Feast for Crows Mafia - Valar Morghulis.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 3, Votecount 2

MagnaofIllusion (4) - Benmage, Cogito Ergo Sum, greenknight, Feysal
Shadow1psc (2) - MagnaofIllusion, Empking
Feysal (1) - Magua

Not voting

(10) Mina, Bogre, Albert B. Rampage, Shadow1psc, Mockingjaye, Deity of Flame, Zdenek, Plum, Monday, Wraith,

With 17 votes in play it takes 9 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 9th of December at 17:05 (GMT)
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-12-09 13:05:25)

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna: Why Shadow over Feysal?

Because despite me Feysal-scum read that I developed Day 1 (and his reaction to any suspicion hasn’t abated) I know Shadow is scum and only suspect Feysal is. Push comes to shove closer to deadline I would support a Feysal wagon but right now I have to push the wagon I know to be 100% correct.

--

AWESOME!!!! No case needed.

Yup, why bother to try to find things that you can frame as scummy as opposed to just Herpaderping it up, right?

Hmmm yeah mods said they tweaked roles for balance... but that doesn't auto make one scum.. Still MoI been real shitty of late.

What do you think of his newest crusade that I'm scum?

Are you still pretending you are Obv-Town? Really? You certainly are in the pool of candidates that I find possibly scum but clearly take a back-seat to confirmed scum Shadow and Feysal. That hardly qualifies as a crusade, but whatever makes you feel special man!

--

Let's read the sample PM:
"Wait, why are you the Sample PM? Oh, right...right, Faraday and Seacore think you're awesome."
"(P) BADASS MOTHERFUCKER You are such a badass motherfucker you got a Sample Role PM when you had no right to."

I think it's pretty clear why they chose Victarion Greyjoy for the sample role PM and it's not to show there are non-Crown-aligned Town factions.

Then why wasn’t he the sample PM for Storm when no Greyjoys weren’t in the game? Hmmmm? Faraday and Seacore don’t include irrelevant things just to be fluffy. I don’t expect a response … because I’m guessing like Feysal you will cling to this position without considering anything else.

--

How does this make sense, like, at all? You were on the same lynch, and I never had a problem with Oversoul. You've been randomly attack me all game, and now that you're under fire it screams of crumbling under pressure. You realize 8 people didn't even have a vote down day 2, and you're attacking me for 'laying low' when I have the third biggest post count? Flail and tunnel harder.

You don’t understand how a speedy wagon built on Town in response to the early wagon on you just at the time when you were convinently V/LA isn’t an indication that you are scum I can’t really help you.

I’ve given many more reasons other than your play those first 5 pages to show you are scum. For example, your lack of scum-hunting and poorly built ‘lurker list’. But please continue to ignore that and straw-man that I am attacking you for just lurking.

I’m calling you scum because I know you are scum. As sure as anyone in a Mafia game could be. Flail harder yourself.

Please vote me though so if you do manage to help my mislynch along once I am revealed you die painfully to either a Vig or rope scum!

--

About this, is it okay to post the same post here if it has already been posted in the neighbor QuickTopic? I was once warned by a mod for quoting my own QuickTopic post, which is why I ask.

Aside from the Mod-kill Fishing (Tek of you BTW) …. I specifically prefaced my post in the QT as saying I was storing it there until today opened up.

I have no idea why.

I have never referenced an ongoing game or expected you to talk about one. I'm not aware that you would have accused me of being scum for lurking since A Storm of Swords either. Even if you had, I don't understand why you would not be able to talk about what you did in A Storm of Swords.

See this is the height of arrogance here and why I’m so fucking pissed off. I’m obviously not referring to Storm. You know very fucking well that I nailed you recently for lurking and your “Oh, I don’t know what you are talking about” is so fucking scummy, especially considering you keep referencing how busy you are with other ongoing games.

BTW – for someone who talks about how Meta changes over time you seem to conveniently ignore that when saying how your Meta on me is rock solid valid. Funny that I’ve played in over 30 completed games since then and yet you aren’t referencing them … how many completed games do you have since Liten again?

When Magister Ludi claimed you did do that. You may not have believed him, yet the way you were posting you were at least considering it could be true. And you were most definitely suggesting the presence of another town faction, and I don't understand what town motive you would have in doing that, though I see potential scum motives. That is why I suspect you.

Weak. It’s scummy that I shouldn’t consider the merits of the claim as opposed to just following along without critical thinking? No, not a chance in hell.

I had several reasons to suspect Magister was fake-claiming there, and I voiced at least one in thread. Are you suggesting without getting the response to the question I asked of Magister (which I never did, and the part of your ‘case’ that was based around timing was scummy which I will get to when I can) can’t possibly come from Town?

Either you are scum hoping to push out the hidden reasons why I didn’t believe it or bad Town. I lean the former given my read on you.

Another wall post done... I should really stop writing these eyesores.

So you keep apologizing for doing something in a hollow manner. Why is that? Do you think your play is scummy for making players actually read?

--

This theory again? You're going to have to do better this time than vaguely pointing fingers at everyone who voted for Oversoul. Some of them are dead now, so that should narrow down the field. Who were the scum voting for Oversoul?

What's your read on Zdenek?

Only have so much time currently. Once I get a full response up to Feysal’s ‘case’ and other things taken care of in thread I’ll be reviewing the Oversoul wagon.

Before the end of Day yesterday I would have said Xalxe was more likely scum than Zdenek.

Xalxe didn’t make a single post in the QT (and the Fourseen / DTM contributions were pretty scarce) while Zdenek has made some limited effort to do so.

Zdenek is in my Null (as in have no strong read on him) area currently. Doing a re-read on that slot is another thing I have to do in light of Xalxe’s flip.

[Benmage]

AWESOME!!!! No case needed.

Yup, why bother to try to find things that you can frame as scummy as opposed to just Herpaderping it up, right?

Hmmm yeah mods said they tweaked roles for balance... but that doesn't auto make one scum.. Still MoI been real shitty of late.

What do you think of his newest crusade that I'm scum?

Are you still pretending you are Obv-Town? Really? You certainly are in the pool of candidates that I find possibly scum but clearly take a back-seat to confirmed scum Shadow and Feysal. That hardly qualifies as a crusade, but whatever makes you feel special man!

Interesting, because last time you were calling me confirmed scum as well, and telling me to simply bus.

**I'd love to see a playerlist from you on whose scum and whose town.

[Benmage]

My beef with MoI is as follow:

1. Flips everything, and I mean everything to the negative with Oversoul. Can’t fathom his actions as town. Continuously rails that Oversouls action are scum scum scum. Throwing everything in the kitchen sink that Oversouls actions are scummy; AtE, meta etc. Oversouls tries to explain that this isn’t the case… MoI won’t hear it.. and well we see the flip.
2. ** This one I like to note: MoI goes away for the weekend.. the games at like post 300ish. Comes back Mid 500s. ***At this point I have stopped the Oversoul wagon. MoI out of nowhere, drops from his heavy attacks on Oversoul and votes Shadow. This reads like potential scum realizing the futility in the Oversoul wagon and looking for the next easy target.
3.**My other real biggest beef with MoI. He does that buddying up to me, and then when called on it by Mina he says reaction testing:

Hey, MoI, I agree with Benmage in that quote, but why did you add that part about potential sheepage? Didn't you say in the graveyard thread for ASoS that you voted Benmage for Hand because you thought he would fuck things up if you gave him power? The motivation behind this post seems as though you're trying to kiss up to him, since Benmage is susceptible to being buddied and (*cough*) thinks highly of himself sometimes.

It’s reaction testing Benmage. There has been bad blood between us for awhile. The fact that he didn’t even blink at it coming from me is suspect. Thus although I like the logic coming from Benmage in certain areas I want more input from him on things I don’t quite get.

I commented on this before. But I really hate this “reaction” testing crap. It’s impossible to prove. People can write off any sort of scummy situation as “reaction” testing.. WTF was he trying to learn through the test?

The main reason I really dislike this is because scum MoI in aSoS did buddy up to me.

4. Hes had a huge farce with me of late. Arguing over nothing. I called Shadowtown and Someone I’d lynch. Nothing changed in that realm, yet somehow hes trying to twist it to the negative. As he’s pinged my scumdar and I’ve made it clear, I’ve somehow fallen into his scum suspect pool(Omgus?). Each post seems different from him in relation to me.

Who else actually think me scum? I’d like to see a case from MoI on me. I really would.

I could do a more indepth breakdown of further reasons why I think MoI could be scum.. But I think I need to pull back from that tunnel game and look at a few other things first. Plus I’d like to watch him a little longer.

Benefits of MoI:
-He’s active.
-A lot of his attacks look genuine. Some of his concentration has been shitty, but he proposed legitimate ideas.

[Benmage]

Spoiler: A quick glance at VC

Day 1, Votecount 9

Hasdgfas (1) Shadow1psc
Mina (1) - Cogito Ergo Sum
Shadow1psc (1) - Empking
Cogito Ergo Sum (1) - Monday
FourseenCircumstance (1) - greenknight

Oversoul (9) - MagnaofIllusion, Magua,

diddin, Hasdgfas, Magister Ludi, Benmage,

Deity of Flame,

FourseenCircumstance,

Plum

diddin (1) - Oversoul

Not voting

(8)

Mina,

ooba, Albert B. Rampage, Mockingjaye,

Mastermind of Sin, xvart,

Feysal, Wraith

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 17th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-17 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  
• Mockingjaye is V/la until Friday, xvart also informed me he was V/la 'till Sunday. MOI and MOS are also V/la.

No real changes between VC 21-25 despite spanning over 100 posts.

VC 25

Day 1, Votecount 26

Oversoul (7) - Magua,

diddin, Hasdgfas

, Deity of Flame, Monday, Cogito Ergo Sum, Wraith

Greenknight (2) -

Benmage

, ooba
Mastermind of Sin (5) Plum, greenknight, Oversoul, Empking, MagnaofIllusion
diddin (2) -

Magister Ludi

, Albert B. Rampage
DTMaster (1) -

Mina

Empking (2) -

Zdenek

, Shadow1psc

Not voting

(4) Mockingjaye, Feysal,

Mastermind of Sin

,

DTMaster

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 17th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-17 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  
• Mockingjaye and Deity of Flame have been prodded. Albert will also be 'poked'.

Day 1, Votecount 29

Oversoul (6) - Magua,

diddin, Hasdgfas

, Monday, Cogito Ergo Sum, Wraith
Greenknight (1) - ooba

Mastermind of Sin (8) Plum, greenknight,

Oversoul

, Empking, MagnaofIllusion,

Benmage, Zdenek,

Deity of Flame

diddin (2) -

Magister Ludi,

Albert B. Rampage
DTMaster (1) -

Mina

Empking (1) - Shadow1psc
Magister Ludi (1) - Feysal

Not voting

(3) Mockingjaye,

Mastermind of Sin, DTMaster

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 17th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-17 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  
• Mockingjaye has 12 hours before I replace her.
  
• Oversoul is being prodded.

Day 1, Votecount 33

Oversoul (8) - Magua,

diddin, Hasdgfas

, Monday, Cogito Ergo Sum, Wraith, MagnaofIllusion.

Xalxe

Greenknight (1) - Bogre
Mastermind of Sin (5) greenknight, Empking,

Benmage, Zdenek

, Deity of Flame
diddin (3) -

Magister Ludi,

Albert B. Rampage,

Mina

Empking (2) - Shadow1psc,

Mastermind of Sin

Magister Ludi (1) - Feysal

Not voting

(3) Mockingjaye, Plum,

Oversoul

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 18th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-18 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  
• We full to the brim.

Day 1, Votecount 35 aka End of Day Votecount

Oversoul (3) -

Hasdgfas

, Wraith, MagnaofIllusion
Greenknight (1) - Bogre
Mastermind of Sin (3) greenknight, Empking,

Benmage

diddin (12) -

Magister Ludi,

Albert B. Rampage,

Mina, Mastermind of Sin, Xalxe,

Cogito Ergo Sum, Monday, Feysal, Plum, Diety of Flame,

Zdenek, Oversoul

Empking (1) - Shadow1psc
Magister Ludi (2) -

diddin

, Magua

Not voting

(1) Mockingjaye

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 15:29 GMT on the 18th of November.
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-11-18 11:29:00)
  
• Please point out any mistakes in the votecount.
  

Flavour + Flip up when I get a chance! (AKA NEED MY MIC <_<)

God, 1 VC goes from 3 votes to lynch.

[Benmage]

I'm gonna do some more reading/isoing to see who I can lower from the suspect pool to narrow the field and see the votes more clearer.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Then why wasn’t he the sample PM for Storm when no Greyjoys weren’t in the game? Hmmmm? Faraday and Seacore don’t include irrelevant things just to be fluffy. I don’t expect a response … because I’m guessing like Feysal you will cling to this position without considering anything else.

I'm going to go with what the Mods told us over your silly little argument, yes. I can come up with a half-dozen decent explanations for why there'd be a difference, but I actually think "no reason, they just did" is itself plausible enough to reject your argument all in all.

[Benmage]

CES, your top 3 town reads?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Am I allowed to cheat and name Mina among them?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Oh wow, I don't even have 3 town reads. Either I really should pay more attention or this game sucks.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm going to take that silence as a yes. So Monday, Shadow and Mina.

[Benmage]

Ran out to get pizza. That is mindblowing. Why Monday?

While were at it, your #1scum suspect and a reason why.

[Benmage]

Actually.. also.. what is your view on Magua?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ran out to get pizza. That is mindblowing. Why Monday?

I forgot. I definitely remember thinking it tho'.

While were at it, your #1scum suspect and a reason why.

Plum 'cause she's scum.

Actually.. also.. what is your view on Magua?

I don't have one? I can iso him if you want but I doubt it'll be useful - fairly sure Magua plays a fairly solid game regardless of alignment (I also totally didn't see it in Strategy Mafia).

[zoraster]

Magua plays a solid game which means it's impossible to know which side he's on!

[Magua]

Really want reads from ABR, or for him to get replaced. Given that it's D3, this just isn't acceptable.

Also want to hear from Mockingjaye, Zdenek, Bogre, Wraith.

[greenknight]

GK,

MoI's issue with Shadow is brilliant as it doesn't rely on who was voting for him. It relies solely on the fact that Shadow was

away

(v/la) from the game as pressure slid from him to Oversoul. MoI's calling him out for purposely laying low (although who sweats 4/5 votes in a large game D1 first wagon ).

At the point MoI first advanced the theory about Shadow being scum saved by the Oversoul wagon, he was still calling Oversoul scum... MoI actually started the Oversoul wagon and ended up voting him end of the day too. This is inconsistent because scum pushing the Oversoul wagon to save shadow implies that Oversoul is town. (yesterday, Ludi attempted an Oversoul wagon analysis on the basis of a similar theory, but Ludi believed Oversoul to be town.)

Magua says that throwing random accusations out at people is just MoI's style as town or scum, but either way, MoI seems all over the place. This is why I want to see further explanation of the Oversoul wagon theory.

Right now 4 players that I thought were likely scum (MoS, Ludi, FC/Xalxe, Oversoul) have turned out to be town playing weird so I need to reevaluate a lot of the game. I'll have more to say tomorrow.

[Benmage]

Really want reads from ABR, or for him to get replaced. Given that it's D3, this just isn't acceptable.

Yep..... we shoulda coasted yesterday through the holidays... I'd yell at Xalxe.. but no point.

Give me 3 townreads porfavor? Not Mina.

[Benmage]

DoF, EmpkiNG!

U2 too porfavor townreads.

[Empking]

Ben: Ben, MoI, CES

[Feysal]

Then why wasn't he the sample PM for Storm when no Greyjoys weren't in the game?

My one guess was that the mods did not become fans of Victarion until this book, but I know such speculation is useless. My real question here is why do you think this matters? You can hunt for scum without knowing of other town factions, or whether any exist. I cannot see the town utility of you insisting on this theory, and I see potential scum utility.

At the time I fail to see how the question of other town factions would be relevant, except to draw attention to those of us talking about it. That does not mean I would completely ignore it though. Should the moment come when it becomes relevant, I will cross that bridge then.

See this is the height of arrogance here and why I'm so fucking pissed off. I'm obviously not referring to Storm.

That much is obvious, but it is less obvious why you are referring to an ongoing game. I only ever mentioned your play in A Storm of Swords, and I can't understand why you won't talk about that, and instead keep referring to a game you can't talk about.

You know very fucking well that I nailed you recently for lurking and your "Oh, I don't know what you are talking about" is so fucking scummy, especially considering you keep referencing how busy you are with other ongoing games.

I know exactly which game you are talking about, but only because it is the only time we've played together since A Storm of Swords. However, I can see no reason why that game would be relevant here.

1. You did not nail me directly. You nailed the player I replaced, and continued to suspect me.
2. You never once said anything about me lurking for the entire game.
3. I was in fact third party.

I would prefer not to talk about this game any more, I feel we're already toeing the line of what is permissible. I am still interested in your thoughts about A Storm of Swords though, where you made a lurking based accusation against me while you were scum yourself.

BTW – for someone who talks about how Meta changes over time you seem to conveniently ignore that when saying how your Meta on me is rock solid valid. Funny that I've played in over 30 completed games since then and yet you aren't referencing them… how many completed games do you have since Liten again?

Have I claimed that my meta on you would be rock solid? I don't think that, in particular I don't think I've seen very much of your town side. What I do know is that your current play does remind me of you in ASoS, and I have seen you engage in activity for which I don't see a town motive.

I have 12 completed games here since Liten, and another 10 or so off site (the forum in question is down as I write this, so I can't check the dates of those games).

Weak. It's scummy that I shouldn't consider the merits of the claim as opposed to just following along without critical thinking? No, not a chance in hell.

Of course I don't think critical thinking is scummy. What I'm suspicious of is that you jumped to a conclusion that did not seem natural to me and did not seem to have town purpose. Had I thought about non-Crown aligned town at the time, I would have stayed silent about it until diddin claimed. Back when I first mentioned this, I said that you had committed your own town-on-town tell, since your theory hinted at foreknowledge that both Ludi and diddin were town.

I had several reasons to suspect Magister was fake-claiming there, and I voiced at least one in thread. Are you suggesting without getting the response to the question I asked of Magister (which I never did, and the part of your 'case' that was based around timing was scummy which I will get to when I can) can't possibly come from Town?

Umm... I think you messed up your sentence structure there.

What

can't come from town?

So you keep apologizing for doing something in a hollow manner. Why is that? Do you think your play is scummy for making players actually read?

No, I think that these long wall posts sap the life out of the game and make it a pain to read. Not to mention they also take considerable time for me to write, time I could spend better doing other things. Yet I can't see how else I could respond to you.

Whew. All that said, can you explain your scum read on Shadow better? The wagon shifting on Oversoul while Shadow was away does not really convince me. In my opinion his play has been useless rather than scummy.

[Deity of Flame]

*posts note*

Do people actually think that the Oversoul NK was not a scum NK? I agree that it would be a very strange pick for the scum (he could have been a very easy mislynch IMO). But if it wasn't the scum who killed him what are we thinking here? Possible indy killer who also thought he was scum? Or are we thinking vig here?

Either way, I guess the silver lining here is that all the trolling/unhelpful players are getting whittled down. We can't have that many glaring question marks sitting around all game anyway. Hoping things should be easier from here on out.

Going to need to go back and review MoI to see if I really agree with this wagon. Also gonna wanna look at Magua v. Feysal some more.

@ Benmage: Why are you looking for townreads specifically? That's some pretty useful info for the scum to have btw.

[Benmage]

@ Benmage: Why are you looking for townreads specifically? That's some pretty useful info for the scum to have btw.

What for NKs? Yeah right. (as in no) I'll explain my reasoning shortly.

[Benmage]

Feysal has read genuine to me.

Fey

townreads?

[Benmage]

I dont see the Oversoul kill as scum.