Benmage wrote:**I'd love to see a playerlist from you on whose scum and whose town.
Town Reads
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Mina - Duh
Plum – After re-reading Day 2 and doing some other digging she’s Town.
Magua – Pretty solidly Town. I’ve seen scum-Magua up close and personal. This is a far cry from his play as scum. Plus his read on Feysal is credible and logical from a Town perspective.
DoF – Despite the late Day 2 pre-flip distancing from the diddin flip and the odd interaction with Magua I find his Day 1 and Day 2 up until ML’s Derpfest was pretty solid Town.
Empking – He’s not great but this is pretty clear Town Empking. Look at his Jungle Republic play … how he insists on asking ‘Why’ as a response or opening a line of questioning … his general activeness Day 1.
Scum Reads
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Zoraster - Duh
Shadow – obv and 100% correct.
Feysal – Read his Day 1. It’s classic lurker Feysal. His meta hasn’t changed despite his insistence to the contrary. Add in his player surrounding Magister Ludi’s fake-claim and we have a very strong scum read.
Bogre – I’d be pushing this harder as ooba’s Meta is lurking as scum and he’s very active as Town but his flake-out adds some doubt. Bogre I have limited experience with so his one game as lurker-scum isn’t as solid Meta evidence for me. VCA placement will largely impact how strong this read is.
CES – He’s here until I do a VCA that shows he’s unlikely to be scum. His push on Plum continually is bad and reads as parking his suspicion and not developing further reads.
ABR / Wraith / Mockingjaye - Are these people actually still in the game? Page 1 says so but I couldn’t be convinced they are. At least one of these three is scum floating along under cover of lurkerdom. Maybe more if Bogre isn’t scum. VCA will probably point in a strong direction.
Not on either list
– a null read that hasn’t hit me with anything that says scum directly or anything that sticks out as Town.
As for your case I’ll respond to what I feel are the highlights –
On Oversoul – you don’t expect me to see what I see as scum play early in the day? As for your assertion that everything Oversoul said was ‘negative’, that’s preposterous. I didn’t think his blue breadcrumbing was Scum behavior and that’s just one example. I could probably dig up more but don't have the will to right now.
Benmage wrote:I commented on this before. But I really hate this “reaction” testing crap. It’s impossible to prove. People can write off any sort of scummy situation as “reaction” testing.. WTF was he trying to learn through the test?
I was trying to find out your reaction. Don’t play stupid. We’ve been over this repeatedly and you keep pretending it hasn’t been answered.
You know what – I hate people who proclaim themselves the King of Town when their play doesn’t really back it up. You will not see me making a case that you saying “LOOK AT ME I’M TOWN” means you are scum. Just that you are an ego-maniac. The fact that your scum-reads don’t really develop Day to Day as far as I can tell means you may be scum.
Since we are on the Topic – let’s see your Top three scum reads Benmage.
Benmage wrote:The main reason I really dislike this is because scum MoI in aSoS did buddy up to me.
No, not really but let’s just say for argument I did. I attacked you in Clash. But, snap, I’m guessing you’d use that as a scum-tell also, huh. Actually you are in the next quoted paragraph. So basically whatever stance I take with regards to my play with you I am scum, huh. Nice “Damned if you Do, Damned if you Don’t” Scenario. Magna who supports Benmage is scum, but Magna who doesn’t knuckle under to his ‘presence’ is scum also.
Benmage wrote:4. Hes had a huge farce with me of late. Arguing over nothing. I called Shadowtown and Someone I’d lynch. Nothing changed in that realm, yet somehow hes trying to twist it to the negative. As he’s pinged my scumdar and I’ve made it clear, I’ve somehow fallen into his scum suspect pool(Omgus?). Each post seems different from him in relation to me.
Missing the point, perhaps? The people you were willing to vote did not include two people you thought were Town – Shadow and Oversoul. You don’t have scum reads that I can see … just people you want to get rid of because they aren’t as good as you. And that's not something I see coming from Town.
Benmage wrote:Who else actually think me scum?
I’d like to see a case from MoI on me. I really would.
Nice Appeal to Majority Ben – “No-one thinks I’m scum so I can’t be”.
Please keep your vote on scum Shadow though … regardless what little Tarp you are running it’s actually a good vote on scum.
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CES wrote:I'm going to go with what the Mods told us over your silly little argument, yes. I can come up with a half-dozen decent explanations for why there'd be a difference, but I actually think "no reason, they just did" is itself plausible enough to reject your argument all in all.
Yes, we can agree to ignore each other’s opinion as neither one of us has any regard for the other person. I’m glad we understand the common ground we have.
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Feysal wrote:My one guess was that the mods did not become fans of Victarion until this book, but I know such speculation is useless. My real question here is why do you think this matters? You can hunt for scum without knowing of other town factions, or whether any exist. I cannot see the town utility of you insisting on this theory, and I see potential scum utility.
For someone who claims I lack imagination in my play this is quite the hypocritical joke.
I have solid reason to think “The Crown” isn’t the only Town faction and that’s why I found Magister’s fake-claim not credible. And no, I’m not telling you why. Learn to live with disappointment.
Feysal wrote:That much is obvious, but it is less obvious why you are referring to an ongoing game. I only ever mentioned your play in A Storm of Swords, and I can't understand why you won't talk about that, and instead keep referring to a game you can't talk about.
You kept insisting the last time I nailed you as lurker-scum was Storm. It wasn’t. Pretending that’s not relevant is scummy. And yes, I’m not going into more detail than to say if you think I didn’t cement my read as you as scum (and that includes 3rd Parties cupcake) with your obv-lurking you are lying to yourself.
Feysal wrote:Have I claimed that my meta on you would be rock solid? I don't think that, in particular I don't think I've seen very much of your town side. What I do know is that your current play does remind me of you in ASoS, and I have seen you engage in activity for which I don't see a town motive.
And I know your play here does remind me of scum Feysal in Liten and other games (not all of which I have played in, BTW) and thus I find you scummy.
You keep referencing Storm over and over as if it is the Rosetta Stone to your claimed MoI meta read. Yet you ignore that I’ve completed three times as many games since then as you have on MS since Storm but you insist my meta read on you as a scum lurker isn’t valid. That’s some hypocritical inconsistency on your part and it only is helping solidify my read on you here.
Feysal wrote:Of course I don't think critical thinking is scummy. What I'm suspicious of is that you jumped to a conclusion that did not seem natural to me and did not seem to have town purpose. Had I thought about non-Crown aligned town at the time, I would have stayed silent about it until diddin claimed.
Back when I first mentioned this, I said that you had committed your own town-on-town tell, since your theory hinted at foreknowledge that both Ludi and diddin were town.
And the bolded is where you are making up things to support your stance. Find where I ever called Magister Town Day 2. I clearly didn’t think he was Town given when I returned to find diddin turbo-lynched I suggested he was likely a lyncher (which is the most logical conclusion when someone is almost positive a Cop claim is a lie when it makes no sense coming from Mafia).
It’s not Town V Town when you don’t think half of the equation isn’t Town
Feysal wrote:Umm... I think you messed up your sentence structure there. What can't come from town?
Yeah, not sure what happened to part of my post there …
It should have read “Are you suggesting the questions I asked of Magister (which I never did, and the part of your 'case' that was based around timing was scummy which I will get to when I can) can't possibly come from Town?”
Again – if you don’t then you are either unimaginative or scum.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
townreads?
