Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[zoraster]

Day 2

Amrun ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Cogito Ergo Sum ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Ghostlin ( 6 )

Amrun,

Cogito Ergo Sum,

VP Baltar,

Kublai Khan,

Quilford,

JasonT1981,

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(L - 2 )

glowball ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

JasonT1981 ( 5 )

glowball,

Debonair Danny DiPietro,

xvart,

saulres,

Sotty7,

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(L - 3 )

Kublai Khan ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Llamarble ( 1 )

Ghostlin,

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(L - 7 )

Quilford ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Sotty7 ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

saulres ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

Vi ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

VP Baltar ( 0 )

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(L - 8 )

xvart ( 1 )

Llamarble,

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(L - 7 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 2 )

Roxi, Vi,

Total Votes ( 15 )

Needed to Lynch [ 8 ]

Deadline: Nov. 28th at 20:00 EST

I'm back in town from the holidays, so I should be on top of things now.

[Kublai Khan]

And who are these people?(Not sure why I'm bothering to answer your bait questions to begin with.)

KK and jason for example. they were both saying Ghostlin was scummy from way back and are just coming around now that the wagon is viable again. That has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Ghostlin being the most popular lynch candidate today. Hell, even you were saying earlier that you thought he was scummy enough to lynch. Now you're apparently being "manipulated" into voted it, which seems like a silly accusation to be making given you were quoting yourself as to why you found him scummy.

Though I'd be more than good with a Debonair Danny DiPietro lynch if we can swing it (ha-HA!) at the last minute.

[VP Baltar]

also, where the fuck is DDD? Holiday is over bro. If you're trying to save your buddy Ghostlin by not being here, don't think I haven't noticed.

@xvart - The ghostlin wagon is where it is at. If you're town, you were supposed to be the counterwagon to Ghostlin scum. Don't let them fool you into a Jason mislynch. This entire thing will get cracked wide open when Ghostlin flips scum, so come on over.

ninja'd

[jasonT1981]

Jason, you're just not getting it. I never claimed the problem was only from Thanksgiving forward. I'm saying it's been going on for a while. For example, let's look at last weekend, specifically Nov 20.

I am V/LA all weekends...

[saulres]

Vi (and everyone else), it's not just the posting discrepancies that make me think Jason's scum. Look at his ISO. I find his first scumhunting post at... um... well, a weak one at his ISO 15. There's a

lot

of defensiveness, though. His big catch-up post includes setup speculation, arguments against setup speculation, game theory (with includes either a townslip or an intentional redirect at "Scum is multiple and can chat at night" -- hard to tell which it is), and in a couple of places, reads. There's very little scumhunting in that large, large post...

The he starts focussing on his glowball/Llamamarble wagon, and there's a lot more of nothing. So when he does post, it's mostly active lurking.

Finally, there's the exclusion of the people I noted in my scumreads post. I know that when I was working on my initial post for when I replaced in, I was looking at everyone, because I didn't know what alignment anyone had. You'll see I even have UT in that post. But once I got the role PM, to rethink reads, I removed UT from the list because I

know

my own alignment. But Jason -- Jason said

nothing

about several people in his big catch-up post, where he gave his reads on everyone -- that tells me he knows more about them than he's letting on.

pedit: DDD is a fine lynch, but given the timeframe we have left I don't see it as viable.

ppedit: ... Jason, you're killling me. You said that nowhere in the game, and you can't just call V/LA on one game and make multiple posts in another. Give me a break.

[jasonT1981]

I check in at various times at weekend, but it is commonly known that I am away most weekends. I can't check in every game, sometimes yes I do get to read a bit and reply, sometimes not. I am sure there are times in this game that I post more than in others. The fact you are pushing my activity in OTHER games because you actually have a weak ass case on me is pitiful.

I CANT CHECK EVERY GAME AT EVERYTIME.... I AM V/LA EVERY WEEKEND AND CHECK IN WHEN I CAN.

I should also remind you, discussing on going games is a dangerous ground and not allowed and we are taking it too far now. Are you telling me that there are never times you get further behind in one game, while being caught up in another?

[xvart]

I take it you have never been a Town Doublevoter before.

No, I haven't. Is there something I'm missing from not having this experience?

My Census Taking ability was prefaced with 'At the end of Day 1...'.

Okay, so your role resolves after kills have occurred (investigation or miscellaneous) but gives you a result from prior to the kills occurring. I've played a few of zoraster's games and I don't see this is likely coming from him as a game designer and moderator. The one thing I appreciate the most about zoraster games is the functionality of the game being standard and the logic behind the way things occur, including role resolution. Even if you read through the MD threads he has posted in there is a theme of stability or standardization (for a lack of better words) and an ability occurring at a late point in the night but giving a result as if it occurred earlier in the resolution order is extremely tough for me to swallow.

Vi

- from your experience designing games with zoraster and modding conversations you've had with him do you think it is likely for him to include a scenario that occurs as Quilford has outlined?

I feel like I have been manipulated onto the Ghostlin wagon by CES and VPB in particular.

Ummm... really?

@xvart - The ghostlin wagon is where it is at. If you're town, you were supposed to be the counterwagon to Ghostlin scum. Don't let them fool you into a Jason mislynch. This entire thing will get cracked wide open when Ghostlin flips scum, so come on over.

I have a hard time believing that I was a counterwagon to anyone since my wagon never got above three people and given those three people I doubt they would all pile on at the beginning to create a scum fueled counterwagon in the scenario you provide.

[VP Baltar]

imo, they grossly misjudged how popular your wagon would be and thought they could ram it through. I think Ghostlin is a highly informative lynch given the push on you at that time.

[Vi]

also, where the fuck is DDD? Holiday is over bro. If you're trying to save your buddy Ghostlin by not being here, don't think I haven't noticed.

*stifles laugh*

This entire thing will get cracked wide open when Ghostlin flips scum, so come on over.

I'm going to go IM VP Baltar that Albert B. Rampage has hacked his account.

---

saulres - I believe you're now finding why I want to policy lynch jason in general, because I expect weak play at best from him as Town. The fact that he looks like he's trying at all is the best Town tell I can get on him.

pedit: DDD is a fine lynch, but given the timeframe we have left I don't see it as viable.

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(L-7)
Put up and/or shut up. All of you.

---

No, I haven't. Is there something I'm missing from not having this experience?

The fact that it sucks. People give you about as much suspicion as a Miller claim, combined with the bonus of people being afraid to be on the wagons you're on because it's "closer to lynch" "without as many people who want that person to be lynched".

Sort of irrelevant at the moment though.

Vi - from your experience designing games with zoraster and modding conversations you've had with him do you think it is likely for him to include a scenario that occurs as Quilford has outlined?

Most of the games I've designed with zorotter have been mechanic madness, not role madness. I agree that standardization is a big priority for him. With that said, I'm curious to know (because I didn't look at the time) what it was zoraster changed in the rules after Quilford made his claim.

--

imo, they grossly misjudged how popular your wagon would be and thought they could ram it through. I think Ghostlin is a highly informative lynch given the push on you at that time.

I think Ghostlin would be a highly informative lynch given the push on Ghostlin. To answer your next question, I'd rather lynch DDD because he's scum.

[jasonT1981]

Jason lynch > Ghostlin lynch because a probscum lynch is better than a probtown lynch.

Read Jason's ISO. Hell, just read his first post of the game. He's scum.

you also contradict yourself here

Prob Scum

is scum

which is it?

Are you really trying to form something from me saying "probscum" over scum? I think you are scum Jason. I want you lynched. Can you answer my question please?

No, just pointing out a contridction.

What other question?

[jasonT1981]

Jason, what is your current read on Llam?

this? I think it is very clear my position on Llam already.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro[/unvote]

[Kublai Khan]

Dammit. Stupid phone.

vote: DDD

[saulres]

what it was zoraster changed in the rules after Quilford made his claim

That the game had a day start, and not a night start. If you look at post 1, rule 5, you'll see he crossed out night and replaced it with day.

I had thought it was a sure tell that Quil was lying if the game had a night start, because I can't imagine a census keeper

not

using that ability in order to share it right off the bat. So I tried confirming some timing with zoraster, and he was grateful that I caught the copy-paste error and surprised that no one else had.

I'm not jumping onto a new wagon now because we still have Llama and Ghostlin to move their votes and I'd like to see where they go. I should be online right through deadline (a first for me!) and can move to another of my scumreads if their wagons become more viable.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

also, where the fuck is DDD? Holiday is over bro. If you're trying to save your buddy Ghostlin by not being here, don't think I haven't noticed.

Maybe you missed the vote count two posts before yours where the Ghostlin and Jason wagons are basically equal which means that the lynch I've been touting all day finally has a chance to happen. I'm not going to abandon that at the last moment to jump over to some wagon that I'm extremely ambivalent about just because you and whoever else wants me to. Now given how much I've been ignored today; what purpose does me sitting here and telling everyone the same thing I've said all day really serve?

pedit: DDD is a fine lynch, but given the timeframe we have left I don't see it as viable.

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(L-7)
Put up and/or shut up. All of you.

Hi, you already tried this once and it didn't work because everyone else who isn't you lapdog can see that the only reason I haven't been able to do anything today is that you insist on kneecapping my attempts. It's a beautiful circle you've constructed; I must be scum because I'm not doing anything productive but I can't do anything since you insist on driving the town in the opposite direction every time because I must be scum. It's fucking tiresome.

[Llamarble]

My journey is completed.
Some lost time needs to be made up for.
I remember I moved my vote off Ghostlin because I was worried he might flip town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I remember I moved my vote off Ghostlin because I was worried he might flip town.

You only vote for confirmed scum?

[Vi]

Now given how much I've been ignored today; what purpose does me sitting here and telling everyone the same thing I've said all day really serve?

"Just let me lurk, please."

pedit: DDD is a fine lynch, but given the timeframe we have left I don't see it as viable.

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

(L-7)
Put up and/or shut up. All of you.

Hi, you already tried this once and it didn't work because everyone else who isn't you lapdog can see that the only reason I haven't been able to do anything today is that you insist on kneecapping my attempts. It's a beautiful circle you've constructed; I must be scum because I'm not doing anything productive but I can't do anything

since you insist on driving the town in the opposite direction every time because I must be scum

. It's fucking tiresome.

Nope, circle doesn't go that way. I'm disagreeing with your weak case, weaker participation, and even weaker post rate. Thanks for trying.

That the game had a day start, and not a night start. If you look at post 1, rule 5, you'll see he crossed out night and replaced it with day.

I had thought it was a sure tell that Quil was lying if the game had a night start, because I can't imagine a census keeper not using that ability in order to share it right off the bat. So I tried confirming some timing with zoraster, and he was grateful that I caught the copy-paste error and surprised that no one else had.

Very good point and logic. Quilford hasn't done a good job of precisely claiming, at any rate.

[glowball]

Jason, what is your current read on Llam?

this? I think it is very clear my position on Llam already.

Obviously it isn't. Could you tell me what you think of Llam at this point in the game?

[VP Baltar]

KK, don't abandon me now. Ghostlin is scum and you know this. We really don't have time for a third freaking distraction wagon from this lynch. Vi is doing everything in her power to stop this from happening. That should be a huge red light that Ghostlin is the correct lynch for the day. There is no logical reason she would be doing that if she thought he was even half as scummy as she claims she does.

Saulres - listen to me bro, you're getting conned and hard. You're a smart guy, but some of this game is instinct. I should never be this tough to get a universally scummy player lynched. There is shennanigans afoot right now. I'm telling you this from years of experience. Sometimes you just need to take a leap. If i'm wrong, you guys can hate on me all day tomorrow. There is no reason Ghostlin should NOT be lynched today.

[saulres]

some of this game is instinct.

Learned that very much last game, which is why I'm using that a large part of my scumreads.

I've said before but I'll repeat -- I won't have time to fully review the case on Ghostlin until tomorrow. Maybe I'll be convinced, maybe not. But I'm not jumping there just on your say-so (seeing as, you know, you're one of my scumreads).

[VP Baltar]

sigh...

I really don't know what it is about my personality people find so scummy for no reason whatsoever.

[jasonT1981]

Jason, what is your current read on Llam?

this? I think it is very clear my position on Llam already.

Obviously it isn't. Could you tell me what you think of Llam at this point in the game?

How is it not clear? considering I even linked the two of you earlier this day, you argued with me over it... and I have had him as a scum read since D1... even voting him today.

How is it not clear?

Spoiler:

Scum

llamarble
Ghostlin
Glowball

with all that said, llamarble is doing nothing, ghost is being very scummy glowball is uber scummy. I could go on either one of these 3, and test Lew claim in night.

Jason - I don't know what your actual position on lewarcher is since you vacillate throughout that post. Is he town or scum?

I don't get why you think Ghostlin is scum either, can I get the sparknotes version of that?

Neither on instinct, I believe him to be 3rd party but not worth the lynch. We can cut a head of scum and weaken them, rather than lynch a role that can end up killing itself in the night.

Ghostlin has just been giving me bad vibes, nothing substancial to go on, but worth looking at down the line. Glowball, and llamarble would be my best two picks for hitting scum.

EBYOP: Fair point Sotty, I didn't actually realize the wagon on llamarble.

unvote
vote:llamarble

Alright, but why have your reads reversed after the night? any reasons you care to give?

Scum:

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:
Would Jason make that level of wall as scum / town?

Just to respond to this now as I didnt get to do this before night fall D1.

1) Yes, I would do it regardless of alignment, it is called a catch up post, given I was away due to personal issues for the best part of last week there had been a lot going on.
2) My vote on glowball was terrible? hmmmm I do recall naming Glowball as one of my top scum suspects. How is it then horrible?

I also noticed this, again seemignly protecting Glowball

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

Yea, I am now quite happy there is a connection between Glowball/Llamarable. I had both as scum yesterday. I still want to take a look at Ghostlin also today.

vote: Llamarable.

Don't agree with Sotty about tripod being a good vote, I have him as town. Cogito is someone also I believe should be looked at today.

IF I get a chance this weekend, I am going to go back and examine the connection further between Glow/LLam and see if there is any mote buddying/protection going on here. I believe there is a connection, which I have outlined above.

Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting, quotes from Alright, looking at glowball/Llamarble connection, I begin with Llamarble

Also, this is petsPick!

Tell me about your actual pets, no details of course. Just sharing, I'll go first. I have a puppy she's about 1.5 years and I LOVE HER she is fluffy and adorable!

This is a terrible idea. This equates you claiming a fluffy and adorable puppy. How is it possible that you do not realise this? And besides, this is fishing. Say that someone tells you that his dog is a German Shepherd who can find anything when he follows his nose. You will just assume that this person is likely a cop. Now I am forced to wonder which one is the explanation of your behaviour. (1) Reckless town - who just won the "VI of the game" trophy despite quil's efforts or (2) fishy scum.

If knowing who cats are gives you vigging powers, wouldn't that be grounds for species-claim?

Here defending Glowballs call for claims.

posting to say I exist but not reading this game til tomorrow

It's tomorrow, and you're the only one not voting and neither is "roxi" so I'm assuming the vote belongs to you?

IDK... care to comment on this?

Hahaha truly you are fishy mcfisherwoman.
And 'oh man I'll own the VI label!' can be read as "YES! AN EXCUSE TO BE ANTI-TOWN."

Glowball is town.

defence of Glow again, calling her town.

More defending of Glow

Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:

Pretty sure glowball is scum if lewarcher is scum.

Hated this.

now to look at Glowball...Glow has made no mention of Llamarble the entire game, nor made any reference to any Llamarble posting...

I 100% believe there to be a connection or even through quotes within quotes....

I 100% believe there to be a connection

He has been defending Glowball non stop
Glowball has not mentioned or even referenced him.

I had the two of them as scum day 1... I see this as a connection to further my read on them both as scum.

You are making it look like I am only looking at you and LLam, when I have other suspects.. . Your over defensive is noted and interersting.

Then shouldn't you be voting Ghostlin?

Yeah, probably.
VOTE: Ghostlin
Though I'm not really sure out of VP / Ghostlin / Xvart who's going to flip scum the hardest.
Right now I feel like all of them will.

Don't like this post, not from Amrun, he has every right to call it. but from LLam, doesn't vote.. gets called out and then votes. Seems weak to me

You, I was saying it wasn't your post but Llam that seemed off to me. Since I was quoting two posts.

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

As much as I believe a Llam lynch is good, I don't see how... it is more WIFOM... look only one kill, less than expected... VP was blocked so he must be scum.

Rubbish reasoning.

OK, yes looking back I am wrong, I forgot Quilford took a census.

Still though, the VP was blocked, there was not as many kills as 'expected' therefor VP is scum... is just pure crazy.

though, LLam, how do you know there were less kills than expected to be? it is complete WIFOM and something I would expect from scum to parade out there.

I believe Glowball is scum for her cheerleading on lynches, and LLam is scum partly due to him trying to add confusion to the town.

Xvart D1 was a non entity to me, but has joined Ghostlin (already said) LLam (already said) on my scum list. VP I am still not fully sure on and is going in the leaning scummy pile.

[jasonT1981]

I believe Glowball is now just trying to stall the game by trying to go over things already established to hold up a lynch.

[glowball]

"In post 969, jasonT1981 wrote:"
^ That was your most recent post about Llam? Over 100posts ago, yeah I needed an update, reads change.

Now you aren't voting him, why? Why would you settle for a Ghostlin lynch when you want Xvart and I looked at tomorrow and you also still think Llam is scum regardless of his claim.