Hired Help Mafia - Over - Mini 1279

[popsofctown]

I dunno. Coug is always scummy even as town.

[Thor665]

He's scummy, but not scummy enough to move your RVS vote? Or is that vote not RVS and I just missed it? (I can be pretty dense)

[popsofctown]

He always does generally scummy things. He would have to do an unusually large number of things that are generally scummy for him to be more likely to be scum than the other players in the game.

He hasn't even exceeded his own baseline bad behavior so, no, it's not scummy enough to vote. Really I only commented on it to coach him into paying more attention if he's town, because he plays town very lethargically if you spare the bullwhip.

[SnakePlissken]

Strangecoug to me is trying very hard to ignore the votes and case against him, hoping that it will go away? Well it's not about to.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

I believe that's L-1 now let's see if everyones vote is a) as strong as they believe b) I doubt there will be any scum hammering on day 1 c) lets see how StangerCoug handles this.

[Nachomamma8]

Snake, if that was a pressure vote, I suggest you take it off. Intent to hammer here.

[Riceballtail]

On your only post in the game, you are intending to hammer on page four?

UNVOTE; VOTE:Nacho

[Nachomamma8]

Yes. I agree that he seems pretty scummy and I'm not really worried about soliciting a claim first simply because I'm going to lynch him regardless of what he claims. Why shouldn't I hamnmer?

[Thor665]

The logic is unequivocal!

[enomis]

Yes. I agree that he seems pretty scummy and I'm not really worried about soliciting a claim first simply because I'm going to lynch him regardless of what he claims. Why shouldn't I hamnmer?

A hammer on page four? No way. UNVOTE: Strangercoug, do you think the advantage of hammering now really outweighs the disadvantage of hammering now. Really?

[enomis]

Strangecoug to me is trying very hard to ignore the votes and case against him, hoping that it will go away? Well it's not about to.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

I believe that's L-1 now let's see if everyones vote is a) as strong as they believe b) I doubt there will be any scum hammering on day 1 c) lets see how StangerCoug handles this.

No, your L1 vote doesnt really matter.

a) no one's vote would be really strong page 4 into day 1
b) there may be very little chance of one hammering but what you are doing is giving one a chance to do it. It means that the probability is no longer 0%
c) The way SC handles this will not change. L2 and L1 are pretty much the same in day 1 page4.

[jerobbo]

Yes. I agree that he seems pretty scummy and I'm not really worried about soliciting a claim first simply because I'm going to lynch him regardless of what he claims. Why shouldn't I hamnmer?

Why are you going to hammer regardless of a claim?

Why are you so certain he's scum after 4 pages and with your 2nd post?

Why

should

you hammer should be the question?

I don't have a firm scumread on anyone yet and I don't see what the rush is, I know I'm new but jeez I can't be missing that much.

[SnakePlissken]

OK Nacho his vote is back down to L-2 so you still willing to put a vote on him if you are convinced enough to hammer? Enomis, I know what I'm doing. You play your way and will mine.

[StrangerCoug]

...Yeah. Not claiming on page 4.

IceGuy still needs to talk to me about how enomis was lurking, because best-case scenario it's hypocritical. I understand the bit about the wagoning.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So where was I?

@Pops

– while I appreciate the meta-humor in you adopting a aura of Cool Inscrutability in a Darox-Mod game I think I’m going to see something in the way of actual reads from you.

Is RBT scum? You seemed to pick up on her pretty quick in Box Office.

--

Colour me interested, cause I don't see it.

Clearly no cookie for you.

1. The first part about his dislike of policy lynching is all kinds of scummy for having clear built in Dissonance. Firstly Stranger was (and later has) indicated he thinks Policy Lynching is a bad thing for Town as the theoretical Town that must be considering himself to be. Yet you specifically references that he once in a scum game actually voted for someone based on this and ‘needs to be careful’.

There are all sorts of issue with this. If he’s Town and truly believes what he is saying re: Policy Lynches there should be fairly significant support for him in his Town games showing this opinion. So regardless of whether he actually did push a vote once in a scum game on this basis he shouldn’t be worried about people going ‘Aha, you did this as scum’ because he should be able to demonstrate it is a Null tell. But he doesn’t’ approach it in this manner. He specifically says he needs to be careful. That shows he’s more worried about how people perceive his play as opposed to playing naturally. Which doesn’t come from Town aligned players.

2. The second part revolves around his ‘RVS’ unvote. I’m going to put it bluntly – there is no such things as RVS that is a separate part of the game and in which votes cast ‘don’t count’. They do. Every post in the game is part of the game. I dislike Stranger’s “Oh, RVS is over, unvote” stance. If he was truly worried about his vote no longer having a funny, non-game element he shouldn’t have voted in the first place. Clearly he could foster discussion and dialoge simply by commenting (as he did with Thor regarding point 1). I see this as a further development of his worry about perception – he didn’t want his haha funny vote ‘left on too long’ to ward off possible criticism.

All I've really got is the one, being specifically mindful of being lynched and moving to avoid it despite personal opinions of what is best for the game.
Secondary is...I guess the no direction after RVS thing ends, though if that's it I disagree with the tell.

Thor wins a delicous, freshly baked Internet Cookie for more or less nailing my thoughts on the matter and actually voting.

Serious image management when he metas himself, survivor-scum tell.

His position on the RVS stage seems like a wave that appears like a particle if you observe it. It's unproductive, yet he participates in it, thus encouraging it.

I'm either 0/2 or 1/2.

I’d give you credit for 2/2 there but you didn’t vote Coug so no cookie Pops …

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On your only post in the game, you are intending to hammer on page four?

UNVOTE; VOTE:Nacho

Let’s see – we have a reactionary vote meant to look Town (you are hammering on Page 4? That’s scummy!!!) that you actually didn’t put any thought into since with 13 alive it is 7 to lynch and Snake’s vote only put Stranger at L-2 (it was the fifth vote).

Also you are ignoring anything to do with any other discussion going on.

Now I really want to see what Pops has to say about you.

--

A hammer on page four? No way. UNVOTE: Strangercoug, do you think the advantage of hammering now really outweighs the disadvantage of hammering now. Really?

Why did you unvote? Do you think StrangerCoug is scum? If so why do you care when he gets hammered? If not why were you voting for him?

--

OK Nacho his vote is back down to L-2 so you still willing to put a vote on him if you are convinced enough to hammer? Enomis, I know what I'm doing. You play your way and will mine.

No, Stranger’s at L-3. It’s seven to lynch. Your reaction testing is noted. It didn’t work in Dr. Who Mafia with your “I’m a sonic screwdriver” claim Day 1 there and isn’t going to work here.

Move on to better avenues of scum-hunting please.

--

Most of this is meaningless fluff regarding what Iceguy thinks in regards to Mafia theory.

@Iceguy

- You were willing to vote Thor and call him scum because of you difference of opinion regarding Mafia theory?

And there we have our opportunistic lurkerscum. This is your first post out of RVS and all you're doing is voting the prevalent wagon with a non-sequitur.

Lurkerscum? In a game open for business less 24 hours at the point where you posted? Not a chance …

I didn't vote enomis just because he was lurking. I voted him because he laid low until there was a major wagon and than voted this wagon with a non-sequitur justification that looked like the vote came first and the thought second.

Nice try to spin my argument.

What is a ‘major wagon’?

Is bandwagonning just for the sake of it, especially early Day 1, a scumtell?

--

That was pretty much it, admittedly.

So your vote on Thor was because you thought he was being serious in his policy lynching discussion.

Have you ever played with Thor before?

--

Scum ^

So Enomis is scum for what? Effectively saying that starting off the day with discussion about something (in this case Policy lynching useless Whisper) is good as long as a Whisper lynch doesn’t occur simply because of the discussion?

--

So thumbs up on your policy lynch MoI. Pretty scummy if you ask me.

I am going to ask you –

Is it scummy to demand from a player with a short but proven history of not providing any content Day 1 to bring a level of interaction to the table that makes that player readable?

What are the purposes of Post 69 and Post 70 other than fluffly activity and buddying up to Pops?

--

Yes. I agree that he seems pretty scummy and I'm not really worried about soliciting a claim first simply because I'm going to lynch him regardless of what he claims. Why shouldn't I hamnmer?

Aside form the fact that this whole series about hammering was “lulz, reaction-test” since Stranger wasn’t hammerable –

I want a full opinion – there is no role in the game that you would not hammer if claimed? Please answer in your next post.

[enomis]

Why did you unvote? Do you think StrangerCoug is scum? If so why do you care when he gets hammered? If not why were you voting for him?

I do think he is a bit scummy and that is why my vote is on him. And I care because i don't want the possibility of the day ending early and he is not so scummy to the point that i want to lynch him in page 4.

[farside22]

@SC: I read post 44. I don't see anything about your case or reasoning other then talking about PL. Is that the reason you found Thor scummy? If so why was it only scummy when he voted you?


[quote=MOI]So Enomis is scum for what? Effectively saying that starting off the day with discussion about something (in this case Policy lynching useless Whisper) is good as long as a Whisper lynch doesn’t occur simply because of the discussion?[/quote]

I answered that here
In addition I don't like BW votes with no reasoning. The fact that emonis didn't disappear after being called out gives me pause on my initial reaction to his post.

I don't like Snakes vote or reasoning for his vote on SC. Weak reasoning there.......more later.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside needs a refresher course in using quotes

--

I answered that here
In addition I don't like BW votes with no reasoning. The fact that emonis didn't disappear after being called out gives me pause on my initial reaction to his post.

I don't like Snakes vote or reasoning for his vote on SC. Weak reasoning there.......more later.

Yes, I saw that response. I specifically wanted to see if you would elaborate on the points I asked about.

Do you have difficulties in getting good reads when you play with players like faraday or CES who really never justify their votes and generally think bandwagonning is a way to get information?

[SnakePlissken]

MoI I assume you meant StrangerCoug in your post and not IS, as Ive just realised this could become confusing. As Im sure you meant Coug, but initially thought you meant IS was at L-3. At the time of voting I was the 6th vote thus L-1?

Don't over complicate things. Oh and it should be pointed out I was town in the Doctor WHo game and I was specifically right in what I did. Whether you like it or not.

Also Faraday it's hard to be ultra detailed when several others have already voted on a person and you agree with them, especially on day 1 when its nigh impossible without a ridiculous scum slip to be 100% sure of anything, so feel free to try that on day 2, but on day 1 that isn't going to wash with me.


Also, should it matter how long the day is if your convinced you've foiund scum? because if you have then scum buddies are likely to go very quiet as to no give themselves away, also on Day 1 you generally get in a scum team 1 or 2 who put themselves out there vocally to try and steer the town and develop on who they think will be good mislynches usually the VIs and the weaker players like myself. Then you normally has one who lurks their way into day 3 before the spotlight hits them substancially, so currently Im fairly happy with both my vote and position. Im even starting to formulate who I think might be scum, but Im not about to post my thoughts yet as I need to put them together in a logical sense otherwise Im likely to get set upon for it.

[Yates]

Snake, if that was a pressure vote, I suggest you take it off. Intent to hammer here.

Yes. I agree that he seems pretty scummy and I'm not really worried about soliciting a claim first simply because I'm going to lynch him regardless of what he claims. Why shouldn't I hamnmer?

What? This is very unlike the Town-Nacho that was recently lynched in an ongoing game. The Town-Nacho was much more logical with his votes and was against pressure votes Day 1.

Unvote

Vote: Nachomamma

You've got some 'splainin to do.

[IceGuy]

Since some people still don't get why I voted enomis, or pretend they don't:

I didn't vote enomis because she wasn't active for a day.

I voted enomis because she didn't post for a day (which would be fine by itself), AND THEN put the third vote on the active wagon with a short justification that didn't make any sense in context.

While that's not a particularly strong tell, it's an useful indicator at least for newbscum. Probably not enough to justify a Day 4 lynch, but enough to justify a Day 1 vote.

Everybody who still claims "BUT YOU WERE ALSO NOT ACTIVE FOR A DAY SO YOUR POINT IS INVALID" gets a scum cookie. A delicious, poisoned scum cookie.

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1. What are we betting on it? How about a sig bet - if I can provide them I get to rewrite your sig and you have to keep it for the duration you're in this game, and the same will go for me? Agree and I'll provide the links. (also known as - Thor wants something worth his time to do busy leg work for random IceGuy issue)

How about you provide those links because it's part of the game?

I refuse avatar or sig bets on principle.

2. Yes, I like lazy town sheeping me.
3. I am not 'pretty much' sheeping MoI - I am drastically sheeping MoI (though I think by me providing reasoning and him not, I am at least working hard for that sheep - it's a tough life, y'know)

Just like nobody got fired for buying IBM, nobody gets lynched for sheeping MoI.

---

StrangerCoug, what is your "case" on me again?

Re-reading/ISOing you after your answer.

---

Most of this is meaningless fluff regarding what Iceguy thinks in regards to Mafia theory.

All of this post is the first post of the thread. If you're going to throw mud at me at least get your links right.

@Iceguy

- You were willing to vote Thor and call him scum because of you difference of opinion regarding Mafia theory?

Oh look, it's a typical MoI misrep clad into a question!

I was willing to vote him because he was going the safe route by sheeping you and redefined "policy lynch" as "scum lynch" to distract from an argument.

[Yates]

I voted enomis because she didn't post for a day (which would be fine by itself), AND THEN put the third vote on the active wagon with a short justification that didn't make any sense in context.

We know. Move on.

[IceGuy]

I voted enomis because she didn't post for a day (which would be fine by itself), AND THEN put the third vote on the active wagon with a short justification that didn't make any sense in context.

We know. Move on.

I will as soon as people stop spinning my argument as "lurkerlynch".

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI I assume you meant StrangerCoug in your post and not IS, as Ive just realised this could become confusing. As Im sure you meant Coug, but initially thought you meant IS was at L-3. At the time of voting I was the 6th vote thus L-1?

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Who is IS? Do you mean Iceguy?

Here’s the rundown and your vote was clearly not number Six.

StrangerCoug (4) - MagnaofIllusion, Thor665, enomis, farside22

This is from Post 64.

The next vote for Stranger is yours at Post 78. Pretty clear he was at five votes and L-2 then, agreed?

Don't over complicate things. Oh and it should be pointed out I was town in the Doctor WHo game and I was specifically right in what I did. Whether you like it or not.

But let’s discuss – what advantage did you gain as Town in that game with your ‘teehee, Ima claim a stupid role for reactions’? You clearly didn’t get nice and accurate scum reads since the only caught scum was due to a Cop investigation that game.

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I voted enomis because she didn't post for a day (which would be fine by itself), AND THEN put the third vote on the active wagon with a short justification that didn't make any sense in context.

While that's not a particularly strong tell, it's an useful indicator at least for newbscum. Probably not enough to justify a Day 4 lynch, but enough to justify a Day 1 vote.

So why did you vote enomis over Thor when you had ‘good’ (as defined by you) justification for your Thor vote and this rather pointless assertion that bandwagonning is a Newbscum-tell.

Look, I’m going to take a page out of the Iceguy handbook –

“OH MY GOD ICEGUY IS MAKING UP SCUM-TELLS. THERE IS NO SUCH THINGS AS THAT SO CALLED NEWBSCUM-TELL. HE’S SCUM HE’S SCUM”

I just wanted to give everyone a taste of the crap we can expect from you later on.

Oh look, it's a typical MoI misrep clad into a question!

I was willing to vote him because he was going the safe route by sheeping you and redefined "policy lynch" as "scum lynch" to distract from an argument.

And look – it’s typical Iceguy use of generic Wikitells (misrep – which in Iceguy’s world is any statement he disagrees with) that don’t actually have any actual application …

Why is ‘sheeping me’ the safe route when it drew him so much immediate scorn?
Do you seriously suggest he was serious about Policy Lynching Whisper?

Why did you dodge the following question –

Is bandwagonning just for the sake of it, especially early Day 1, a scumtell?

All of this post is the first post of the thread. If you're going to throw mud at me at least get your links right.

Yes, technical error there. My mistake. Here is the proper link to your fluff – Post 41

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Yates

- I see you have completely avoided talking about the StrangerCoug wagon. Please give us your thoughts on it as it relates to his alignment and others aside from Nacho.

[Thor665]

How about you provide those links because it's part of the game?

It's no more part of the game for me to do it than you - and I'm lazy and think your angle is silly anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm supposed to dedicate time to it for you. Give me a benefit to myself (through learning something for the game...or sig bet ) and then I'll actually have a motivated reason to do the legwork. Sans that...::shrug::

You also gave out poison cookies on the lurking issue - do you really think that's a legit scumtell? If so, do you have any names that stand out in that regard as the scummier pushers on you?

@MoI - is asking Snake to defend his play in a game that's over and he was town in really going to go somewhere? It doesn't matter if you agree with him that it's good scumhunting, it only matters whether or not he honestly believes it is.