A Feast for Crows Mafia - Valar Morghulis.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 3, Votecount 5

MagnaofIllusion (2) - greenknight, Feysal

Shadow1psc (4) - MagnaofIllusion, Empking, Benmage, Wraith

Feysal (1) - Magua
Plum (2) - Mina, Cogito Ergo Sum

Not voting

(8) Bogre, Albert B. Rampage, Shadow1psc, Mockingjaye, Deity of Flame, Zdenek, Plum, Monday

With 17 votes in play it takes 9 to lynch.

• Deadline for Day 1
  : 9th of December at 17:05 (GMT)
  
• Countdown
  : (expired on 2011-12-09 13:05:25)
  
• Top.Of.The.Page.

[Eddard Stark]

Prodding Shadow

[Albert B. Rampage]

Mod: Sorry all, I need a replacement

My workload is too high.

[mockingjaye]

I haven't had a chance to really look at this game at all since I went V/LA last week and didn't get to do any of the reading I wanted to do. Thanksgiving got to be pretty eventful here, and I apologize for being out of touch with the game.

Regarding Plum: I like that that she assumed/claimed right away that she had been discovered via watch/track rather than an investigation, but given there is still an unaccounted DK on Xalxe, I'm a little dubious about the nature of her vig claim, but I think it will resolve itself in time, and at any rate, I don't want her to full claim unless it becomes necessary.

I don't like the Feysal vs. MoI exchange and am nitpicking my way through it. I've had a null-town read on MoI so far because this is how I've seen him play before. I also have seen them go head to head recently in [REDACTED] and am wondering how much of their conflict or my read of this conflict may be being influenced by events in [REDACTED], consciously or not, so I'm probably being more picky here than I should be. I also agree with greenknight's Post 1409. I think the meta arguments going on between MoI and Feysal are unnecessary; both of these players are logical enough that it should have been done with a while ago.

However, regarding greenknight, everything about your Post 1352 sets my teeth on edge. The unnecessary comment about Ludi. The "Sigh." The vig rolefish (mindful of yesterday's fishing with Magua). GK: What is pro-town about outing a vig at this point?

I've also had a problem with Wraith since D1. I feel like he has been passing off several of his votes (FC, ML) as being necessary policy lynches as opposed to being good scum lynches in order to cover himself. I said more about this on D1 (re: FC, Post 882), and Wraith basically told me he wasn't going to elaborate any further about his read in Post 892. On D2, in Post 1146, he basically lectured Ludi about why he was being wagoned (as if he didn't know?), and I questioned him about that in Post 1197, which he never answered. It's kind of moot now to some degree, unfortunately, but Wraith's complete unwillingness to answer me in either instance affirms my scum read on him, as does his D3 posting in which he asks for a catch-up and then provides a list of reads that appears to be based on flips more than anything, so I'm not even sure he's reading the thread.

Vote: Wraith

Town reads as requested (note: not something I normally like doing): Magua, Zdenek, and CES are all somewhere on my prob-town list.

[Wraith]

I don't want to elaborate on the Fourseen vote beyond this: it wasn't a Policy Lynch technically, because for the most part I was voting for him based on his play in this game, rather than mostly basing it on play in other games (though they played a part)

On the Ludi vote "justification": I felt it was required because Ludi (to me at least) seemed in denial as to why a wagon should be formed on him.

[Eddard Stark]

Searching for a replacement for ABR now.

[Shadow1psc]

Alright, Monday morning and caught up. I'll answer MoI in just a second but... wtf Plum, really? I mean... really? Why, in the world would you shoot cow over Ludi? Or like, anyone else? Seriously, I read #1420, but like, what?! Let's back up a second... you want to say that in 24 players, 1 scum kill happened n1, because you decided to be a bad vig? No one else thinks this is really low, and that Plum has been caught? That MoS, for whatever reason, was a more logical scum kill than Cow?

Seriously?

[Shadow1psc]

GK,

MoI's issue with Shadow is brilliant as it doesn't rely on who was voting for him. It relies solely on the fact that Shadow was

away

(v/la) from the game as pressure slid from him to Oversoul. MoI's calling him out for purposely laying low (although who sweats 4/5 votes in a large game D1 first wagon ).

How does this make sense, like, at all? You were on the same lynch, and I never had a problem with Oversoul. You've been randomly attack me all game, and now that you're under fire it screams of crumbling under pressure. You realize 8 people didn't even have a vote down day 2, and you're attacking me for 'laying low' when I have the third biggest post count? Flail and tunnel harder.

You don’t understand how a speedy wagon built on Town in response to the early wagon on you just at the time when you were convinently V/LA isn’t an indication that you are scum I can’t really help you.

I’ve given many more reasons other than your play those first 5 pages to show you are scum. For example, your lack of scum-hunting and poorly built ‘lurker list’. But please continue to ignore that and straw-man that I am attacking you for just lurking.

I’m calling you scum because I know you are scum. As sure as anyone in a Mafia game could be. Flail harder yourself.

Please vote me though so if you do manage to help my mislynch along once I am revealed you die painfully to either a Vig or rope scum!

Alright, now let's get to this bit of backwards logic. Benmage's post pretty much sums it up, sarcasm or no. Your entire original basis for not liking me was based on something that is out of my control (my ability to play on weekends), and a wagon that was not pioneered by me, nor endorsed by me,

but a wagon you were on and riding at end of day

. Why weren't you voting me then? And then, you want to call me out for having a supposed lack of scum hunting, when I've been trying to push cases on plenty of people, when all we've seen is absolutely horrible town pushing lynches on each other and making stupid power plays. I believe now more than ever Plum is scum, and that Empking is more guilty of what you're accusing me of than I am (seriously, laying low, bandwagon voting without pushing cases or scum hunting or contributing anything other than to up his post count).

[Shadow1psc]

And let's top that off with a VOTE: Plum, because seriously, wtf.

[Shadow1psc]

The hell is everyone...

Anyway, I was expecting more people to show up and have a rousing bout with me, and laughs would be had, maybe a few drinks, but here are some cold hard facts v. Plum -

1)

25%+ of Plum's post count is in response to a soft-claimed scan

. This would be a better statistic if Plum had contributed more than 25 posts in a (nearly) 1500 post game thus far. It's day 3, this is the definition of lurking in plain sight.

2)

Plum's first four posts change votes 3 times

. Two of which are clear bandwagon votes, the third of which was your first real 'case' on someone who turned up town. Oversoul turned up town, and I am town. You continued to hound Oversoul for that whole text color business, but unvote for the second half of day 1, then only show back up to ride the diddin train with no explanation or insight.

3)

You SHOT Hascow

. There is not a single train of thought where this makes sense given the events of day 1 from a town perspective. Not one. And your little 'breadcrumb' is the very reason other people questioned me for not caring about who Hascow's potential target might have been. Admittedly, I missed you saying it completely

because you've left no impact on this game whatsoever

with your fluffy posting (see: MoS 'case', Oversoul discussions).

4)

Day 2

. I pointed this out already, but your 'intent to vote Ludi' comment did exactly what I said it would.

THAT WAS THE LAST POST YOU MADE ALL DAY

, and the first thing you come in and do is crumble automatically to a soft claim with wild tales of why you (someone who's been here quite awhile, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a competent player) thinks it's not only ok to vig night 1, but to vig someone that I don't think anyone believed was outright scummy. Maybe not obvious town, but there was a much bigger pool to work with, and you could have saved us an entire day with the Ludi crap.

For these reasons, I have no doubt that you should be hung today. This is me showing my work to the class, because MoI has a bee in his bonnet that my previous scum hunting efforts weren't loud enough.

[Magua]

Shadow, do you think Plum is scum who was given an additional kill?

[Magua]

@Plum:

Given that everyone you've found outright scummy so far is now dead, who do you find scummy now?

[Shadow1psc]

Shadow, do you think Plum is scum who was given an additional kill?

I'm not sure. Plum could have been the expendable 'send in the kill' gal for being vanilla, and someone else could easily have had any other manner of kill. SK, strongman, whatever. I find the least amount of sense made in the scenario where scum would kill MoS (someone who had a lot of heat as it was) and not Hascow. On the other side of that coin, I could see Loras having some special kill. Maybe she lucked into the SK slot for that matter. Flavor/role not being indicative of alignment (for the most part) means anything could happen I guess.

[Eddard Stark]

Bogre has failed to respond to his prod. Will also begin the search for a replacement for him

[greenknight]

[quote=MJ]The vig rolefish (mindful of yesterday's fishing with Magua). GK: What is pro-town about outing a vig at this point? [/quote]

Seriously - how was my questioning Magua fishing? He declared he was going to kill Ludi on day 1 and failed to do so. Surely that requires some explanation?

As for inquiring about Xalxe's death - as you said, it's an unaccounted for day kill, and ambiguous as to whether it was actually connected to Ludi's death or not. I think it'd be helpful for night kill analysis to figure out if this was a town directed kill. Since the night 1 deaths were somewhat mysterious and it's unlikely that there'd be a ton of vigilantes in the game every kill that can be accounted for as town makes other kills more likely to be scum. This would be relevant to, for example, Plum's current vigilante claim.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Since the night 1 deaths were somewhat mysterious and it's unlikely that there'd be a ton of vigilantes in the game every kill that can be accounted for as town makes other kills more likely to be scum.

Nope. Set-up design mechanics!

[greenknight]

Also, concerning Plum:

Crumb that I was going to kill him? No. I'm never sure who I'll Vig till I submit the kill.

What's this then?

Probably I'm a much better scumhunter when it's just me and a gun with no Town to talk at.
PREVIEW EDIT: FOURSEENCIRCUMSTANCE, PLAY THE GAME OR DIE.

Feysal - If we weren't lynching MoS today, I'd probably go with hascow, Magister Ludi, Shadow. But seriously HASCOW, dude. Ludi's a bit inconclusive. Pray we have a Vig, for now.

[Eddard Stark]

Pine replaces Albert B. Rampage!

[greenknight]

Since the night 1 deaths were somewhat mysterious and it's unlikely that there'd be a ton of vigilantes in the game every kill that can be accounted for as town makes other kills more likely to be scum.

Nope. Set-up design mechanics!

If by that you mean that vigs could be scum too, that's true but doesn't really affect my reasoning as a scum vig would just subtract from the potential town vigilante pool.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

It means that outguessing the Mod regarding is pointless since it was mostly randomly determined. Yes, we can have that many pro-town vig roles.

[Pine]

Unvote

I have some obligations in other threads that take precedence. Deadline isn't anywhere close, so I'll read up when I can.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: regarding the set-up

[Magua]

CES, can you do something other than argue setup design / mechanics? kthxbai.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm waiting for Plum to reply first, thanks.

(Actually true. Yeah, it surprised me too.)

[Wraith]

PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE

*shakes fist*