League of Legends (Old)

[pickemgenius]

[xRECKONERx]

Why is it every time I hear people arguing about Dota or LoL, the argument from the pro-Dota side is that "LoL is for noobs, Dota is for true skill"? I feel like Dota has some seriously antiquated game mechanics.

[Fate]

GODDAMN TROLL

[Fate]

RECK GET THE FUCK ON TOURNY PRACTICE

[bv310]

BAYLIFE

[Staeg]

Why is it every time I hear people arguing about Dota or LoL, the argument from the pro-Dota side is that "LoL is for noobs, Dota is for true skill"? I feel like Dota has some seriously antiquated game mechanics.

Because people generally find it harder. It's reaaaaaally hard to determine which one of online games are harder, because the literally only way to win is to be better than your opponents - which doesn't tell you which game is harder. It's kinda like trying to represent "skill" as a number.
If it matters, I do think that DotA is harder than LoL, even if LoL isn't "a game for noobs". There's just so much going on in DotA that only the higher-skilled players can do, or even know of (juking and disjointing seem to come to mind), even if you *can* win the game without them.

Now, do tell; which are those antiquated mechanics (and please, no "It has no AP" arguments)?

[xRECKONERx]

It has no AP

No B

Item system in general is a cluster fuck

I dislike the asymmetrical map (more preference here)

I feel like champions in lol are better developed

More but I hate typing on mobile

[Brandi]

Creep denying is pretty "antiqued"
But then again, so is last hitting.
LoL would be much better if it was removed all together.

Also IMO, DoTA2 has a lot of mechanics that makes it a lot easier than LoL.

It actually does have a "B" ... you just have to buy it in the store.
It also has a teleport... that you can buy in the store, for cheap.
There is an item in the game you can buy that grants you stealth when you activate it.
There is an item in the game that makes you invisible to wards/minions so that you don't be detected.
If you are chasing someone that hides in some trees and they "B"/TP away... they will be gone in like 1 second. You most likely will not get them.
You can also buy yourself back alive (but that's actually expensive)
There are refillable health pots as well.
"buffs" are just things you randomly pick up off of the ground in the jungle, you don't have to kill anything for them.
Also blinks in DoTA2 are a MUCH LARGER OMGWTF range compared to in LoL.
Stuns last 10 million years
Some champions literally can 1v5 an entire team no problem.
The game is balanced around everything being ridiculously OP.
Turrets in DoTA2 do almost no damage at all.
Having NO AP doesn't make it archaic/antiqued... it just makes the game less versatile.



Another thing, not really related to difficulty.. I hate how champions in DoTA2 NEVER. SHUT. THE FUCK. UP. AAAAAAAAAAAh.
Also, I don't care for the champion art style. I do like the way the terrain looks... but the champions themselves... I really just prefer the ones in LoL. (DoTA2's artwork is better than HoN though.)

[bv310]

Creep denying is pretty "antiqued"
But then again, so is last hitting.
LoL would be much better if it was removed all together.

Removing last-hitting would remove one of the last real skill requirements in LoL. Right now, the game is based a lot around timing. Remove last-hitting, and the game basically becomes "who can land the most skillshots". If you want that, go play ARAM games.

[Brandi]

I disagree with you completely. But instead of explaining why, I'll just link to this:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/sho ... c+mechanic

While I do feel strongly that last hitting is stupid and should be removed, I know that's not really feasible the way that LoL and many champions are balanced. It would require changing too many things to really "fix."

But I mean yeah last-hitting takes skill, just like whack-a-mole takes skill. But I'm not interested in playing whack-a-mole. I feel it's tedious and takes away from the actual fun of the game.
Then again, I main support. So I don't really need to just play ARAM all games to avoid last-hitting. ;o

[Staeg]

It has no AP

Specific game mechanic. Mages would be broken as fuck if they had any for of scaling whatsoever.

No B

Okay, this one's kind of a mark of it being antiquated, but the game's kinda worked that into its mechanics (you actually need the mana and itemslot for the TP scroll if you're going to get away after juking successfully into some weird-ass place nobody knows of).

Item system in general is a cluster fuck

You mean, the way the items are ordered? It is ~MYSTERIOUS~ for no good reason, but they're generally ordered by: basic items, support-aura items, defensive items, hardcarry offensive items, simple offensive items (and I do know that the system can get funky when you have items with 2 or more spots where they belong).

I feel like champions in lol are better developed

Well, this ain't really an argument.

More but I hate typing on mobile

This one ain't, either, but aren't you in a game atm? >.>

Creep denying is pretty "antiqued"
But then again, so is last hitting.
LoL would be much better if it was removed all together.

I'll just say this: no

Also IMO, DoTA2 has a lot of mechanics that makes it a lot easier than LoL.

It actually does have a "B" ... you just have to buy it in the store.
It also has a teleport... that you can buy in the store, for cheap.
If you are chasing someone that hides in some trees and they "B"/TP away... they will be gone in like 1 second. You most likely will not get them.

The TP scroll is reaaaaally different from the B button. For one, 3 second channel time. For two, not interrupted by normal damage (only CC).

Also blinks in DoTA2 are a MUCH LARGER OMGWTF range compared to in LoL.

Hullo 6-second 1250 range blinks

Stuns last 10 million years

Yep. DotA's balanced around everything being hilariously OP (but it is actually balanced).

Some champions literally can 1v5 an entire team no problem.

No. No.

The game is balanced around everything being ridiculously OP.

Indeed

Having NO AP doesn't make it archaic/antiqued... it just makes the game less versatile.

...no

Another thing, not really related to difficulty.. I hate how champions in DoTA2 NEVER. SHUT. THE FUCK. UP. AAAAAAAAAAAh.

You can reduce the frequency with which they talk, or you can turn them off overall.

P-edit: the thread's noodles and there was another thread which demonstrated as much.

[pickemgenius]

tl;dr they're both different game and work in different ways both of which are enjoyable to play and watch.

[bv310]

I'll link you to this specific dev post from Average Gatsby that states my rebuttal to the initial post in a much better way: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/sho ... 6#20362826

P-EDIT: Peg's hit the nail on the head. Comparing LoL and DotA is like comparing Call of Duty and Battlefield, then saying why one is good while the other takes no skill whatsoever, or comparing something like Dragon Age with Skyrim, and trying to argue that one's good while the other's shit. They're two different games in the same genre, and there will always be people who prefer one over the other enough that they have to make themselves feel superior by insulting the other.

[pickemgenius]

more tl;dr


rah rah esports.

[Brandi]

tl;dr they're both different game and work in different ways both of which are enjoyable to play and watch.

Very true.
The things I listed were just examples of how DoTA2 is not "OMGSUPERHARD"

DoTA2 fanboys will make fun of LoL players going "ooooh you guys can TP and base back and EVERYONE GETS FLASH HURHURHUR TOO EZ"
when they have their own variants as well.

I don't think DoTA2

as a whole

is easier than LoL, just that it has certain aspects that makes it easier, while LoL very well has certain aspects that make it easier as well.
They both can be enjoyable games.

The TP scroll is reaaaaally different from the B button. For one, 3 second channel time. For two, not interrupted by normal damage (only CC).

...which makes it easier to get out of things.

I'll just say this: no

yes.

No. No.

Juggernaut? If fed enough. I've seen videos on youtube of it. Reminds me of a super fed Sion in LoL.



Also, if teamfights are just "TIMING" then what the FUCK is "last hitting" ? Pretty sure last hitting takes timing as well.
And what the fuck. Good timing = skill. End of.
To say that "last hitting" is the only thing that takes skill in LoL is stupid, as it takes the same skills as last hitting a champion, only easier, because minions don't pose as much of a threat, and don't escape as easily.
The fact that you have to be able to last hit properly while harassing/avoiding harass has multiple attributes. Even if last hitting didn't exist, there would still be harass that you'd have to avoid.

There are "learned skills" in this game and there are inherent skills. Game knowledge comes with experience, which will definitely make you a better player. Timing your skills right to get the kills and pay the bills, that's all you.
Of course sometimes you get "lucky"
There is luck in just about everything.
Sometimes you get lucky minion kills too.

[xRECKONERx]

I think champions being better developed leads to a more enjoyable experience. I think there are bad champions in each, but I have more to identify with a unique champion with a backstory and well-designed kit to match their lore/personality AND better artwork... rather than Dota where it's like "this motherfucker is a storm spirit so that's his name"

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think champions being better developed leads to a more enjoyable experience. I think there are bad champions in each, but I have more to identify with a unique champion with a backstory and well-designed kit to match their lore/personality AND better artwork... rather than Dota where it's like "this motherfucker is a storm spirit so that's his name"

Except Dota champions also have a backstory.

[bv310]

[Brandi]

"this motherfucker is a storm spirit so that's his name"

haha
so true ._.


@BV: SHUT UP GET THAT STUPID GINGER OUT OF MY FACE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[Staeg]

Juggernaut? If fed enough. I've seen videos on youtube of it. Reminds me of a super fed Sion in LoL.

No. Jugger can't 1v5. Noone can (weeeeellll, in a theoretical ult where Faceless catches all 5 in his ult and manages to rape 2 before it runs out, maaaaybe). Jugger has a passive crit, an active whirlwind (which doesn't scale with anything, so you should never use it ever lategame), a healing ward which is killed by an auto of a support, and probably his shining point: ult. I don't remember if he lifesteals off of his ult, but anyway, the optimal play is to either A) chain CC jugger before he can ult (which can be done to even the most fed of people), B) fight near neutral creeps/lane creeps if your team doesn't have the capacity to chain someone down for more than 10 seconds for whatever reason.

P-edit: yeah, DotA2's lore does indeed suck. I'm not too sure about the original DotA's one, though; I remember some of the first 90 hero backstories were ohgodawesome.

[pickemgenius]

i

do think

know there are heroes that can 1v5 in both games.

[Staeg]

i

do think

know there are heroes that can 1v5 in both games.

doooo teeeeell

[BBmolla]

LoL is more forgiving then Dota. Dota is harder to learn because it has more variables than LoL.

What is the argument here, I'm really confused.

Also why does art style even matter. Or unit voices for that matter.

Edit: "heroes that can 1v5" is kind of general if you don't know circumstances.

[xRECKONERx]

Dota has too many moving pieces IMO, it makes for a fun game but I'll take LoL which has less fat

[BBmolla]

Dota has too many moving pieces IMO, it makes for a fun game but I'll take LoL which has less fat

If the argument is still your original question, I'm just explaining it from the Dota players PoV. Instead of seeing it as cut fat, they see it as simplified version of the game. For comparison, think Civilization 4 compared to Spore's Civ stage. It doesn't really hold any truth, but that's just what they think.

Dota is more complicated, LoL is less complicated. Variable wise, completely ignoring meta I mean. Being less complicated is an enormous part of LoL's success though because it is so easy to learn and get into. Dota's complicatedness makes it rewarding when you can understand everything and outplay your opponents with that knowledge.

Edit: Keep in mind, learn =/= master.