[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Oversoul]

People are okay with them as long as they know they exist or they are not lied to when they ask if there are cults.

Look at Blackest Night and Brightest Day.

Blackest Night is a good example of what not to do with a cult such as not telling players the cult exists until it is too late. Brightest Day is a step in the right direction towards good balance with a cult, but it still isn't quite there. I think those are two good examples of cult + mafia interaction as the Mafia in both new a cult existed fairly early.

[chkflip]

Oh, alright. Thanks Oversoul.

[BBmolla]

My personal favorite variation is a cult who can only convert vanilla townies. I feel like it's extremely swingy otherwise.

[Faraday]

People are okay with them as long as they know they exist or they are not lied to when they ask if there are cults.

Look at Blackest Night and Brightest Day. I think those are two good examples of cult + mafia interaction.

Blackest Night being an example of a terrible one, right?

[chkflip]

My "variation" would actually be the original style of cult where, if culted, you lose your ability regardless of scum/town alignment.

Might incorporate a "High Priest" role that can convert culties back to town/scum, but that's still in the works.

Ninj-edit: LOL Faraday.

[Staeg]

Might incorporate a "High Priest" role that can convert culties back to town/scum, but that's still in the works.

...no
You do know why this is a horrible idea, right?

[Faraday]

I don't think I've seen a cult set-up I've liked tbqh.

[chkflip]

LOL duh. Thanks Staeg, I didn't really think about it until you pointed it out. Back-and-forth would be awful on all accounts.

Why do you think they're so bad, Faraday? What could improve them?

[Faraday]

Not using a cult...


I just really hate the core mechanic of the cult, i.e. recruiting players and changing their win conditions. I don't think they're fun to play, they're pretty much impossible to balance (or at least they have MASSIVE swing, so that early game a couple of bad recruit choices can fuck a cult over but unless you stop them by day 3/4 you're probably fucked)

[chkflip]

I think it adds an interesting dynamic to playing a mafia game. You've got your town reads and your scum reads and, with a cult, you've constantly got to judge whether your reads are good and whether people (mainly the cult recruiter) are going off said reads to find culties, etc.

Might scrap the idea, it'd be for a large game as I said anyway. Roughly thirty-ish roles. Depends.

Thanks for your input.

[Oversoul]

People are okay with them as long as they know they exist or they are not lied to when they ask if there are cults.

Look at Blackest Night and Brightest Day. I think those are two good examples of cult + mafia interaction.

Blackest Night being an example of a terrible one, right?

Yes. One where the players were not told a cult existed.

[Faraday]

Okay, I was just making sure you were telling people not to look at it as a good game :p

[Oversoul]

I probably should make that more clear. :c

[BBmolla]

The Thing

Everyone has alts.

10 Scientists
2 Things

3 players control all Things. Once a player is taken over by a Thing, the player taken over loses control of their account. The Things can control any Thing, no one is assigned specific ones. Things obviously have daytalk.

(Which means 13 players total)

If possible, when signing up, players sign up specifically for which role they want. (This prevents players who don't want to play the Thing from being the Thing.)

During the day, players decide who they want to test to see if they are a thing.
Once a majority is reached, that player is tested. If they are a Thing, they die. If they are a scientist, a test is wasted. After two tests are wasted, the Things get to choose another player to take over. Then Scientists get two more tests. This continues until all Things are dead or Things outnumber scientists.

Here's a cultish idea that I came up with by stealing some ideas from some game convention from ages ago and a bit from hito, who used an SK who could do something similar.

My original intention was to make a non-mafia game that required the same amount of mod effort as mafia and that I could run in mish mash, but I guess at its core it's still mafia.

Also I have no idea if this is balanced. Obviously any attempts at using meta would be modkillable.

[callforjudgement]

I think restricting cults to even-night or odd-night recruit (effectively what BBmolla's post above does) is one of the most necessary fixes for balancing cults, although it isn't enough by itself. I'd also suggest making the recruit

factional

; this is a large buff for cult, but also makes the game a lot less swingy (and some weakening of the cult would be necessary to counterbalance that).

There are plenty of bad ways to do cults. I think it's also possible to do them well, although that's pretty rare.

And that reminds me of this:

Mountainous Cult

• 2 Even-Night Cult Members (even-night factional recruit, no nightkill or any other abilities but the recruit, nighttalk but not daytalk)
  
• 10 Vanilla Townies

Not sure how balanced it is, but hopefully it brings the swing down somewhat. Perhaps it needs an investigative role or the like in there, to make it less mountainous, as I'm not sure it'd be town-sided with

any

number of VTs.

[Staeg]

BB's one is different -- town is rewarded for correct lynches.

[BBmolla]

Yeah, in my version, a town could win the entire game in one day. You only keep checking until you check two scientists.

[BBmolla]

Few 6Ps I've been thinking of.

Traitor 6p

1 Goon
1 Traitor(Is told who the Goon is)
4 VTs
Nightless

Usurper 6p

2 Usurpers
1 Mastermind
3 VTs
Nightless

Usurpers only win if their partner is dead and they and one town are the last ones standing. If both are alive and they outnumber town, Mastermind wins.
Mastermind wins if Mafia and Town lose. Mastermind is informed who the Mafia are. Mastermind does not have to be alive to win. If an Usurper is lynched, MM commits suicide.
Town wins if both Usurpers are lynched.

[StefanB]

Well BBMolla's has one problem, the taking over.
If I understand it correctly, the players leave the game and the thinks take over the account.
Try to post like player x, very difficult.

[BBmolla]

Well BBMolla's has one problem, the taking over.
If I understand it correctly, the players leave the game and the thinks take over the account.
Try to post like player x, very difficult.

Yep. That's what makes it difficult. Killing and emulating lurkers is easy, but those active players will be tough to copy.

It's also why the Thing has 3 players to control it, just so it becomes tough after you get 4 things.

[The Mini-Librarian]

Guaranteed LYLO

• Four Goons
  
  Eight VTs
  
  
  --
  
  If a
  goon
  is lynched, the mafia kill
  2 VTs
  at night.
  
  If a
  VT
  is lynched, the mafia kill
  1 VT and 1 goon
  
  
  
  ALL NKS ARE NO REVEAL

Questions? Suggestions? Would you play?

[Staeg]

So, basically, the town can lynch whatever the hell they please until the last day? Ehh, not sure

[Zajnet]

Could be interesting, as it allows the town to lynch VI's and forces the living townies to try to figure out the WIFOM from the NKs...

[Staeg]

Could be interesting, as it allows the town to lynch VI's and forces the living townies to try to figure out the WIFOM from the NKs...

It's not that it allows you to lynch VIs -- that's the optimal play for at least D1 and D2.
I'm not sure ir that's a bad thing, though.

[The Mini-Librarian]

So, basically, the town can lynch whatever the hell they please until the last day? Ehh, not sure

That's why I had the no reveal NKs. It adds an incentive for lynching scum, as it makes the NKs both be town.

Once again, I'm just testing the waters here. I'm not even sure if it would be a fun game or not.