Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Lastsurvivor]

Also, Alice, could you give your thoughts on three players for me? They can be any players you want, but preferably players you can actually say stuff about.

[Rhinox]

So all I really get out of that is you wanted to make sure someone else was going to support voting for me (fishy) before you would vote me yourself.

LOL at making a big deal about "fluff posts" less than 24hrs into the game, while its still RVS time, and not everyone had even posted yet.

(lol harder that you think defending myself is a scumtell)

DDD asked a question, that was obviously just a device to spark conversation about something. Not a town or scum tell. It was a good point (not a strong point or a scum point) you had but it says more about you than DDD. DDD gave the expected answer. thus, I am not leaning town nor scum towards DDD (or anyone) right now. Not enough information yet. Anyone that thinks thats a problem 24hrs into a game is either rediculously naive or scum.

But see, it was much more concise to just say I don't think anything about DDD right now, rather than a useless paragraph that amounts to "I don't think anything about DDD right now".

This is so adorable. <3

There it is, the definition of deflecting . We're gonna end up friends, I can tell already.


OK then time to take requests: who else besides nacho wants my vote after I'm lynched then?

[Lastsurvivor]

So all I really get out of that is you wanted to make sure someone else was going to support voting for me (fishy) before you would vote me yourself.

I was waiting for you to reply to my first post before I voted for you. I don't give a damn who votes for you before I do. But nice job trying to discredit me just because someone else happened to find you scummy and I wasn't at the computer immediately after you replied.

LOL at making a big deal about "fluff posts" less than 24hrs into the game, while its still RVS time, and not everyone had even posted yet.

I find this interesting. I'll say why later.

(lol harder that you think defending myself is a scumtell)

Did I ever say that? :3

DDD asked a question, that was obviously just a device to spark conversation about something. Not a town or scum tell. It was a good point (not a strong point or a scum point) you had but it says more about you than DDD. DDD gave the expected answer. thus, I am not leaning town nor scum towards DDD (or anyone) right now. Not enough information yet. Anyone that thinks thats a problem 24hrs into a game is either rediculously naive or scum.

But see, it was much more concise to just say I don't think anything about DDD right now, rather than a useless paragraph that amounts to "I don't think anything about DDD right now".

The paragraph tells me a lot more than "I don't think anything about DDD right now," so ty. If you don't think anything about someone I want to know WHY, since DDD has actually posted after all.

This is so adorable. <3

There it is, the definition of deflecting . We're gonna end up friends, I can tell already.

Okay, here's what I was referring to earlier. If you think that what I posted was reflecting (which it really wasn't since what you confessed that what you posted was just snarky gibberish anyway), then isn't you just saying "LOL" to my points definitely reflecting?

Um. Anyway, Rhino, are there any players you do have thoughts about? They don't have to be solid (we aren't that far into the game after all), but you've gotta have some alignment indications.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't vote on it. You did. Why?

Because at the time (and even now) they weren't a lot of posts, so you just skimmed and that's worth my vote. Why shouldn't I vote? It got us talking, eh.

Just because there's a small number of posts doesn't mean that you should put down a serious vote if you don't believe there's scum intent. I also foresee myself speaking with every member of the playlist that posts, so it probably would've been better if my discussion with you didn't start with suspicion, don't you think?

[Rhinox]

Did I ever say that? :3

You certainly implied that it was a negative thing that my first real post (as defined by you) was defending myself.

While I admit that there are scum that just sit back and lay low and only show up to defend themselves, you just can't come to the conclusion that anyone is doing that 24hrs in. What usually happens is that a player or group of players gang up and attack a player, and that player responds to everything and quote wars go on and on, and then someone jumps in and is all "Hey XXXXX, look all you've done over the past Z pages has been defending yourself you're not scumhunting so you must be scum LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH" - its that sort of BS that just makes me roll my eyes, and thats essentially what you did, just MUCH quicker than I usually see, so kudos for that. But its still BS, becuase once you make your attack post, you've already set me up. I'm not just going to ignore you, so I defend myself and you through out your "your first real post is defending yourself" accusation. If you wanted to make the point that I hadn't scumhunted to your level of approval and posted fluff and etc, you could have done that in your first attack post, not bait me into "defending myself" so you can pad your case.

Okay, here's what I was referring to earlier. If you think that what I posted was reflecting (which it really wasn't since what you confessed that what you posted was just snarky gibberish anyway), then isn't you just saying "LOL" to my points definitely reflecting?

No, my last sentence, which I separated from the rest, was snarky gibberish. You chose to ignore/lump in the part about me accusing you of buzzword scumhunting by saying I deflected DDD's question (which I didn't) and using it as part of your justification for why I'm scum. Deflecting is when you ignore/make light of/minimize/etc points or questions you're uncomfortable addressing. I did not deflect DDD's question, but you certainly did deflect the point I was making about you.

Um. Anyway, Rhino, are there any players you do have thoughts about? They don't have to be solid (we aren't that far into the game after all), but you've gotta have some alignment indications.

Look, sometimes I can get into srs mode in games quickly and sometimes I can't. I hate this part of the game sometimes, all the ambiguously forced "how do you feel about YYYY?" type questions, just gets old sometimes, even though its a necessary part of the game sometimes. But I'm not just going to make up some reads that don't exist just to placate the rest of the town and make myself look good. And while I appreciate that you want to hear all my null reads explained, there's another whole group of people who feel paragraphs about players that don't really say anything and don't end with a confident town or scum conclusion is just being wishy-washy and scummy, so its a lose-lose situation until I find something to have a definitive opinion on. In the meantime, if I get to be the vehical that propels us solidly out of the RVS, then I'm comfortable with that too.

But just consider what you're asking - majority of the players have 2 or 3 posts. Thats nothing to base anything on, and at this stage of the game I try not to bother leaning towards any alignment for anyone because its either so weak the next post I could change my mind for reasons I can't explain, or it leads to a bias in reading those players the rest of the game (too much benefit of the doubt / confirmation bias). The 2 players I've interacted with the most (you and fish) I can't objectively read because I know you're both wrong, and its hard to objectively sort out "Wrong" and "scum" when you're the target.

Nacho is maybe the only other player that made an impression on me. His first post gave me a chuckle and is ultimately meaningless. The rest, nothing I'm ready to lean an alignment on. I think Nacho made a good point that Malee through a vote him for "skimming", but didn't explain what was scummy about it, but I think he gave that point back up when he downplayed Malee's point by being all "but I didn't vote".

Other people need to show up moar before I put too much weight on anything. Making REALLY BIG DEALS of the things being said by the few active people at the start of the game is what leads to town on town on town on town BS while scum sit back lauging at us.

In short, we're like 24hrs in. Its a marathon, not a sprint. Patience..

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

fishythefish (2) - hiplop, Sleepless Assassin
rhinox (2) - fishythefish, Lastsurvivor
nachomama8 (1) - Malee
funkybike1 (1) - Vincent2128
Malee (1) - funkybike1
4nxi3ty (1) - rhinox
Lastsurvivor (1) - 4nxi3ty
Sleepless Assasin (1) - Alicewondering

Not Voting (3) - nachomamma8, pizzadudes7, Debonair Danny DiPietro

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 4th, 7PM PST

[Fishythefish]

@fishy: just curious, which games of mine did you use to meta my early game play?

I just went down your topics list. Open 338 was the only scum one, and there were plenty of town ones including LWIII. The game most reminiscent of your play here was called something like Round Table Mafia, and you were town - so the meta gives you a mild towntell.

Rhinox's post 54 reeks of town to me. The sentiments are convincing and townish - particularly "hard to seperate wrong from scum" and "this sort of thing encourages town on town BS" (though I'd modify it to "alignment independent BS" to pick a nit). I think scumRhinox would be fighting Lastsurvivor harder - it's a fight that it feels like he could win - rather than this.

UNVOTE:

This game needs more voices.

[Lastsurvivor]

Hm. Rhino's ok for now; my vote's staying because he's the best option atm though. Just gonna reply to a few things...

You certainly implied that it was a negative thing that my first real post (as defined by you) was defending myself.

To clarify, it's just a null tell for all the reasons you provided. Obvs you can't help that your first meaty post was defending yourself if you got attacked. The only reason I mentioned it was because defending yourself is really iffy content. But yes I can see how you'd see those implications etc etc.

No, my last sentence, which I separated from the rest, was snarky gibberish. You chose to ignore/lump in the part about me accusing you of buzzword scumhunting by saying I deflected DDD's question (which I didn't) and using it as part of your justification for why I'm scum. Deflecting is when you ignore/make light of/minimize/etc points or questions you're uncomfortable addressing. I did not deflect DDD's question, but you certainly did deflect the point I was making about you.

Yeah, I wasn't using deflect in the buzzword context. Deflect was the wrong word there, might have been thinking of reflect or reciprocate or something. Basically a word that means to turn the question back to him. If you look at the context of the sentence, you can tell I didn't mean the buzzword at all.

And good answer @ the last bundle of paragraphs. And I totally understand what you're saying about my forced questions but you have to understand that that's exactly why I ask them. I'm seeing what people make out of the little information we have.

[Nachomamma8]

Why exactly aren't you unvoting, LS? You're talking to him as if you're trying to appease his rage.

[Lastsurvivor]

@Nacho: Half assed reaction test for Rhino, but mostly I didn't feel like unvoting. Since you called me out before he did, no real point in keeping the vote on, so

UNVOTE:

[Sleepless Assassin]

Fish, I don't knoow, it's just a vibe I get from your posts. And I don't remember what I saw from malee. Let me ISO after this post.

Rhinox, id love your vote if I can get some solid reads at some point.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Oh yeah, the whole skimming over reaction thing was what I didn't like about malee.

[funkybike1]

UNVOTE:

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It was a good point (not a strong point or a scum point) you had but it says more about you than DDD.

I'd love to know why it was a good point other than pandering to LastSurvivor because even you recognize the point was easily addressed.

VOTE: Nachomamma8
Malee is pathetically shrimping away from this, but I like the point. Nacho's an above-average player and when he's on cruise control and not reading things deeply that suggests to me he's not really looking for scum that deeply.

[LlamaFluff]

pizzadudes7 has not submitted a will and has been replaced by kortul

[Nachomamma8]

It was a good point (not a strong point or a scum point) you had but it says more about you than DDD.

I'd love to know why it was a good point other than pandering to LastSurvivor because even you recognize the point was easily addressed.

VOTE: Nachomamma8
Malee is pathetically shrimping away from this, but I like the point. Nacho's an above-average player and when he's on cruise control and not reading things deeply that suggests to me he's not really looking for scum that deeply.

Success in early scumhunting doesn't really require reading every post; most RVS posting doesn't have much substance behind it. The key is to force people to say what they don't want to say, and that's what I'm working on.

[kortul]

Hello. Just a quick post from work. This week is busy for me, so will do a thorough reading of what had happened in the evening or tomorrow.

I did a quick reading of thread anyway, to submit initial Last Will, so may as well answer two questions that i've noticed. The last name on my will is Alicewondering - i don't know him/her, and his/her presence in this game is practically null so far. And from the player list i know DDD (completed a game together, that is lost in a crush), hiplop and 4nxi3ty (playing in other games with them atm).

[Fishythefish]

VOTE: funkybike

Do you have nothing to say about the game other than unvoting?

[Fishythefish]

Sorry for double post.

LS is being very appeasey generally. He prodded Rhinox, and only voted when I agreed with him. Rhinox replied, and I backed off, and so did LS. Nacho asked why he was still voting Rhinox, and he unvoted.

None of those actions are poorly explained, for me. But I don't like the way they line up with scum avoiding conflict.

[Rhinox]

@Fishy - I was just curious if you went back and looked at the past Last Will games and iso'd me, because in both in my first half dozen posts or so I was what you called flippant and friendly, joking around and in the last 1 I made a very similar reference to you being at the top of my will, so I was just wondering why you felt my play in this game was so different.

@LS

defending yourself is really iffy content.

I don't really believe this, but we can just agree to disagree since its not really important right now and I've already explained my feelings on defending in my previous post.

might have been thinking of reflect or reciprocate or something.

So, whats the problem with me asking DDD to answer his own question.

@DDD

I'd love to know why it was a good point other than pandering to LastSurvivor because even you recognize the point was easily addressed.

Well, I was pandering to LS with my post. Even though the point was easily addressed I still wanted to hear your answer, and I was curious how much LS would push on you for what was clearly just a RVS talking point question.

[Vincent2128]

Rhinox's #54 gives me the town vibe in contrast with the earlier posts. Not sure what to think of him as of this point besides a null.

Vote Count

fishythefish (2) - hiplop, Sleepless Assassin
rhinox (2) - fishythefish, Lastsurvivor
nachomama8 (1) - Malee
funkybike1 (1) - Vincent2128
Malee (1) - funkybike1
4nxi3ty (1) - rhinox
Lastsurvivor (1) - 4nxi3ty
Sleepless Assasin (1) - Alicewondering

Half the game is still in RVS votes 2 days into the game, which doesn't give a lot to work on, but for now I'm seeing Fishy and Nacho town.


UNVOTE:

[Fishythefish]

@Rhinox: I didn't look at the LW games before III. In III, you did joke around on page 1, but there was also content - you talked about mechanics, and asked who wanted your vote. Here, other than answering DDD, you were completely contentless for several posts.

[Lastsurvivor]

@Rhinox:

Rephrase: Iffy content compared to other content (questioning players, providing reads etc.) it's still content.

And there's nothing wrong with asking him to answer his question. I never said there was.

I did a quick reading of thread anyway, to submit initial Last Will, so may as well answer two questions that i've noticed. The last name on my will is Alicewondering - i don't know him/her, and his/her presence in this game is practically null so far. And from the player list i know DDD (completed a game together, that is lost in a crush), hiplop and 4nxi3ty (playing in other games with them atm).

How do you know hiplop? And what do you think of their play so far compared to their play when you last played with them?

-----

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Mainly because of the "you seem on edge" accusation he threw out towards fish, and the lack of justification. Here's his justification for reference:

Fish, I don't knoow, it's just a vibe I get from your posts. And I don't remember what I saw from malee. Let me ISO after this post.

Rhinox, id love your vote if I can get some solid reads at some point.

Throw out an accusation to look like your scumhunting -> "Oh it's just a vibe" when asked instead of pursuing the lead.

I don't like how he asked for Rhinox's votes either. Seems like he was trying to manipulate what he thought was a frustrated Rhino.

[Lastsurvivor]

PEDIT @kortul: When I say "what do you think of their" I mean all the players you listed that you know, not just hiplop.

[LlamaFluff]

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