↑Phillammon wrote:At this point, my reads are that one of Maru and Kondi is probably scum, if not both, due to their prolonged arguments, though it could be townie infighting
This is the most wishy washy, convoluted, non-commital sentence I have ever read in my life.
Vote:Phil
CC(whatever the last initial is) can wait till tomorrow
It's a pain to read all this nonsense, but if Phil is scum I bet Chimera is scum too and already placed his "safe vote". Getting rid of the "noob". Besides this, there's nothing else to go on, I'll be more active this week-end though, so maybe I can generate something to discuss :p
Having just gone back and re-read everything, I'm ready to be more verbose:
Spoiler: Sequence of events
Kondi clears TML for trying to move talk onto the game
Maru makes interesting comment about re-randomization
// Probably just part of the old "what were we last time" discussion, but interesting nevertheless
Lots of setup speculation
Mhork accuses Kondi on grounds of looking *too* townie.
// Looking back at the wiki and a couple of games, seems okay in principle, but it seems a little foundless
Kondi responds, saying he looks townie because he *is* (and was trying to move on in a similar way to TML)
TML follows Mhork
Malee points out use of WIFOM from Maru // Looked justified to me, but Maru raged in response
Kondi votes back at TML, not Mhork, for not countering responses
//Again, looks okay now I reread
Fennin puts kondi at L-2
// Rereading once more, I misread- no *more* votes after L-2
I overreact badly, then make a mess of my justification
TML justifies Kondi vote
// Accurate, looks like- Kondi was helping me though, which skewed me a bit earlier on, and was part of said fluff
Chimera points to Kondi case being flimsy
I mess up again, Mhork jumps on it // Justified, tbh. That was a dumb thing to say.
Maru jumps on Malee for earlier WIFOM pointout, then puts together a potential scumteam
// Looks odd to me, especially given the interaction between the three. Ie none other than being voted by/ suspicious of vote from Fennin
Several people tell me off for my mistake, some with votes
Maru switches from arguing with Malee to arguing with kondi concerning Fennin's vote
// Looks okay, given there were some direct concerns
Maru jumps on me for my earlier reads
// I guess also justifiable, given the content there
More verbose observations so far:
The case against Kondi looked a little flawed, originally, just for examining early game fluff. All the same, Mhork made good points. When the counter-vote against TML came in, it looked a bit off until the justification, but the fact that the vote stayed after the justification came from TML is a little weird. Possible scum?
Maru has been arguing some good points, but seems to be committing some of the things she is accusing others of in her arguments, which looks strange simply because I'd have thought she'd be on the lookout for that. Possible scum?
Malee has been so far arguing logical points, I can't really find many flaws, though I'm sure several people would be happy to correct me there. Probable town?
TML, Chimera, CCV, Lowell, similar to Malee from my point of view
Fennin's vote looked a bit suspicious, but tbh that's all I have against him. Not much to go on there. No real read, very slight lean scum.
Mhork made some good points, but based on fluff. Probably fine, just there is little to base this off beyond your arguments against Kondi and myself. Which were well made if nothing else. Mostly Town?
Glyn, Pizza, Ice, I have basically nothing to work from. No read.
It's unlikely these are at all accurate, especially given the number of probable towns I marked, but this is the reasoning I've been going through.
Any better?
While I'm here:
Very Unofficial Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 7
Fennin
- 2 - Candy Corn Vampire, Phillammon - (L-5)
IceGuy
- 1 - IceGuy - (L-6)
kondi2424
- 2 - The Mini-Librarian, Fennin - (L-5)
Phillammon
- 4 - Lord Mhork, Lowell, Chimera, Maruchan - (L-3)
So many walls I am posting... This makes me sad... I know! I'll break it into spoilers! Also, I promise I'll get more into the game this weekend (hopefully) so I won't keep coming back to a whole new page each time.
Well, dang. Post 65 was where he said I was going to do this, and 33 was where I said I would have done it. I guess I'm not really helping my case here, but dissolve was a bad choice of words, and apparently the wrong sentiment entirely. It was meant to be more a "let's have someone jump off until there is further discussion, so a sudden change of votes doesn't lynch straight off".
The thing is, you don't have people leave wagons just because they are getting near the lynch point. Having a dumb scum quickhammer is an amazing thing, but typically everyone knows better than to pile votes to the lynching point.
As such, yes, I was defending Kondi. I thought he looked fairly scummy, but I wasn't willing to have someone on L-2 for what was a fairly flimsy accusation.
L-2 isn't really a threat. L-1 shouldn't be either, given that you don't think he's scum and therefore wouldn't self-vote. Please explain your read on kondi for us, yeah?
Unfortunately, this appears to have given you an actual accusation on me, so maybe it was thick of me. I was saying he looks town by comparison to some other people who more recently got my suspicions up, again, my word choice wasn't great- I'm meaning, there are several possible scumteams forming up, and Kondi isn't really on any of them, scummy or otherwise.
Don't try to figure out scum teams. Try to figure out scummy players. That's scumhunting 101. Again, actual read on kondi, por favor.
As for the proofing, that was honestly me making a reference to the fact that I'd made two typos in my previous post alone, and I was trying to make a reference to Chimeras joke-clear of me because I was making typos.
I figured as much. I'm simply stating everything that comes across as scummy about you. You said you're new, yeah? Think this as my "How Not to Get Lynched as Scum Day One" Lecture.
↑Phillammon wrote:Also, valid point on Fennin, but for now I'll keep my vote where it is.
If it's a valid point, why are you still voting fennin? You could at least answer the point. Or you could give reasoning for your vote. Read on fennin, please, and why.
↑Phillammon wrote:Thought I explained this, but: I agreed that another vote would be fine. That early, less so. Especially given the earlier comments about not putting anyone onto L-2 before the hypoclaim was done, plus, as I said, I went over the accusations again, and realized that they weren't as solid as I'd first thought. The fact Fennin was so nonchalant about putting him on L-2 given the earlier discussion was the main thing I was worried about, tbh.
There isn't really a 'right' time to put someone at L-2, pal. Backtracking like this makes you look like caught scum desperately wriggling around trying to make his earlier actions into a town-like context.
↑Phillammon wrote:At this point, my reads are that one of Maru and Kondi is probably scum, if not both, due to their prolonged arguments, though it could be townie infighting, with Fennin and Mhork looking a touch iffy, Fennin for the nonchalance earlier and Mhork's arguments against Kondi being very shaky, but honestly, my arguments are even worse than his, so my reads are worse than useless.
Then why, precisely, are you not voting Maruchan or kondi? Your vote should be on your strongest scum-read, yeah? And
please
stop saying that my arguments on kondi were shaky. I hate having to deal with scum trying to discredit me this early.
Spoiler: Regarding the People Who Say I'm Town
↑Lowell wrote:As a hider, I will hide behind MARUCHAN, who is obvtown. LORD MHORK is obvtown too.
unvote, vote phill
. Reactionary doesn't even begin to describe it.
As my first two votes have turned into actual wagons, I'm understandably a bit nervous about scum sheeping me. Why exactly do you have an obv-town read on me? And no:
↑Lowell wrote:Explanations:
phill's a control freak who doesn't want to offend.
Maru has a town role PM.
Lord Mhork, just have a feeling.
Yes lets totally get into the statistical improbability that we would both get scum again, and get into the common-sense-lacking where you honestly believe I would so blatantly align myself with my scum partner. You should know from this game, as well as past games of mine, that I am 100 times more likely to bus a partner than buddy them.
Back to my question, So do you think we have 5 scum then, since you said everybody fighting you was scum?
I'm assuming either you have a HUGE ego, or you're some PR that makes you feel that anyone who looks at you funny MUST be scum because you're so "obviously" town as this PR.
Please stop with the self-metaing. It's not helping your case and it's making everyone and their mother look at you suspiciously. Rather than explain why you most definitely are
not
scum, tell us: who do you think actually is scum? And why? Also, try to avoid rolefishing like in that last line there, please, you're straining my townish read on you.
tl;dr (Shame on you if you don't read this entire wall!)
I'm still happy with my Philammon vote, kondi and Maruchan are looking somewhat townie to me, and I'm getting paranoid with the number of sheeping me.
Oh and QFT:
↑Candy Corn Vampire wrote:jegus, you're confused and you're self depreciating. maybe you should acquaint yourself with the wiki or read an already completed game.
Philammon, while I don't, personally, see the merit in reading some completed game, you should at least look through the basic Newbie Guides on the Wiki. And perhaps going though a Newbie game wouldn't be a bad idea?
In response order:
Yup, leaving the wagon at that point was a bad move. I was at that point under the impression that a mislynch would be a very bad thing, as opposed to two free scum lynches at the cost of a townie.
L-2 being a threat was something I misinterpreted from the hypoclaim posts, and I'd assumed was to do with the hider being in the lineup.
Good point, will do
Good point, I'll try and settle down my style a bit, at least.
There may be no right time, but 2-3 days in with several people still yet to post anything real sounds like the wrong time.
I was trying to settle down and stop votehopping, for now I'll go with my gut and VOTE: Kondi, as earlier. Apologies for my accusations on your analysis.
I read through the newbie guide and faq, however they didn't really seem to tell me anything I didn't already know from playing IRL and on IRC. I agree on the point with newbie games, I was in one when the crash ate everything, and the queue has been frozen. In any case, I'll chalk this down as me biting off more than I could chew, and will definitely go back to the newbies when this is over/when I die. Sorry to all.
↑Phillammon wrote:I was trying to settle down and stop votehopping, for now I'll go with my gut and VOTE: Kondi, as earlier. Apologies for my accusations on your analysis.
I don't buy it. Seems more like you are trying to please the ones who suspected you of unvoting at that point. Now you are voting Kondi again, why again? It's all fluff.
VOTE: Phillammon
That's L-2. You're back to square one with that Kondi vote ...
