Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Malee (3) - 4nxi3ty, Alicewondering, fishythefish
Sleepless Assassin (2) - Lastsurvivor, kortul
fishythefish (1) - Sleepless Assassin
rhinox (1) - hiplop
nachomamma8 (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro
4nxi3ty (1) - rhinox

Not Voting (4) - nachomamma8, funkybike1, vincent2128, Malee

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 4th, 7PM PST

[Lastsurvivor]

Hm. Well, I think I see what you're getting at w/ Rhino. Don't necessarily agree with it though, but I'll let Rhino defend himself before I go into it.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Last, on fish it was a vibe I got from the tone of his posts that looked like scum to me. Let me pull up his ISO and see if I can figure it out:
-ISO 0. Telling everyone at game start to think about wills seems unneccesary and kind of like he's trying to appear helpful, but at that stage really doesn't help anything.
-ISO 1. When asked about the above, he tries to say people will forget if he doesn't remind anyone. A reminder on Page 1 though? Nah, he just wants to appear useful town. The reaction to being questioned about it as well as the will reveal thing are what I saw as "on edge". He seemed pretty defensive for someone not really being pressured or anything.
Everything after that can be summarized as "rhinox is scum, never mind. Bike isn't useful so here's a vote but no one cares so I'm gonna vote malee and just kind of agree with what everyone is saying there."

Malee didn't seem genuine with the over reaction to one thing (nacho) and lack of much else.

On DDD, I honestly don't feel I elaborated a ton. More of that section of the post was me trying to recall Nacho's style.

[Vincent2128]

Malee didn't seem genuine with the over reaction to one thing (nacho) and lack of much else.

Personally, I think that Malee's reaction to nacho was an attempt to gain town credits from me.

[Sleepless Assassin]

That's your first hint of suspicion on anyone this game. Not enough for a vote? Why not? And how much does it take for you to vote someone?

[Vincent2128]

That's your first hint of suspicion on anyone this game. Not enough for a vote? Why not? And how much does it take for you to vote someone?

Going through the game again:

nacho...didn't vote vincent?? (now who's not paying attention )

I admit, I'm confused :p

That makes it a null case UNVOTE:

This post feels fake to me (see #95 and #97 as well.)

VOTE: RHINOX His long posts feel like he knows they will be taken as townie, due to their length/passive aggression. Ultimately it feels forced, and its the best i have at this moment. He just doesnt feel right, at all.

I find myself partially agreeing with this post, yet at the same time not believing it. However, I don't see it as a tell either side, until:

You know what, I gotta agree with you. Looking back he is being pretty sloppy. Though, atm I'm tempted to vote rhinox. Very very defensive. SA is going to hold my vote now, however. When he gets back or w/e hopefully he wont be as apathetic

VOTE: SA

Buddying a little with Lastsurvivor's vote, and also using the very same bad point that Rhinox talked about (defending =/= scumhunting, therefore scumtell).

however, I am going to VOTE: Rhinox Quite simply there is something wrong here, it seems like you're attempting to emulate a townie, just feels very forced

And back to Rhinox again.

However, voting hiplop isn't going to get anything done considering the current votes, so VOTE: Malee

----
Rhinox, still sticking with your RVS vote?

[Sleepless Assassin]

if you were forced to commit to it right now, what would be your take on the interactions between rhinox and hip. Do you think rhinox is scum? Buddies with hip? One scum but not the other? I'm a bit confused because that's the second post where you're all "rhinox this, but...".

[Vincent2128]

if you were forced to commit to it right now, what would be your take on the interactions between rhinox and hip. Do you think rhinox is scum? Buddies with hip? One scum but not the other? I'm a bit confused because that's the second post where you're all "rhinox this, but...".

Rhinox is town (-ish), hip is leaning scum.

[hiplop]

so if you were to say why I am scum in a few sentences, how would you do that? All I see from you is "he voted rhinox", I have been on him for most of the game

[4nxi3ty]

@everyone; Whats everyones thoughts on DDD, it just occurred to me that he is in this game, and he usually isnt this inactive is he? The posts he has made have been rather blah, too.

I could easily see scum!Danny playing in a way not to stand out, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see him play that way as town. Basically I want to hear what his stance is now that we're a little further in the game.

[Rhinox]

she continued to think that Nacho voted Vincent was bad. Seems like a fabricated case to me.

I don't agree. Scum have no reason to push a case like that if they know the evidence will shoot it down. Seems like she genuine thought nacho had voted vincent. She unvoted when she finally realized she was derping - I'd expect scum to come up with some ad hoc explanation rather than just say oops and unvote.

Do you have nothing to say about the game other than unvoting?

Yo, funkybike, what's up? Give us your thoughts on, like, players and stuff.

I was waiting to see IF funky would respond before throwing my thoughts in here. It is certainly by the book to pressure less active players into posting more, but unfortunately this is about all we're going to get from funky. Fortunately, what we're getting matches town-funky more than scum-funky right now. Unfortunately, my scum meta hardcopy vanished in the crash so I can't confirm. But my recollection is that scum funky is more active and involved, whereas town funky lurks and has no idea what to say most of the time. I think funky just has more fun playing scum. Since I can't confirm my meta I'm not going to rely on it 100% the whole game, but I'm probably not going to be interested lynching funky today, espectially if the reason is his activity. If I were a vig though, he'd be at the top of my list.

however, I am going to VOTE: Rhinox Quite simply there is something wrong here, it seems like you're attempting to emulate a townie, just feels very forced

Acknowledged. Can't really defend against a "something wrong" accusation, so :shrug: Since you can't even pin it down, it does no good to go back and rehash the post you seem to have a problem with so I'll just continue on and you can decide if I get any better or not.

Why did you feel the need to make like 3 posts about it saying pretty much exactly the same thing before I came back to respond? Why did you unvote then revote me before I had said anything about it?

Rhinox, still sticking with your RVS vote?

Is it hurting anything??

I know, I know... I'm getting more townvibes than scumvibes at the moment, when I find a good reason to move my vote, I'll move it.

the interactions between rhinox and hip

What "interactions"?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maybe "early game" is different, but it just reminds me of Sotty in the Winvitational and her being on cruise control with the Triple D is scum for the fake post restriction; she's better than that and you're better than this.

I was also on cruise control during the Winvitational, and I think the difference between me there and me here is pretty clear. My scum cruise control is not missing things in thread; it's more not being in the thread in the first place.

I can't say I'm seeing a big difference.

DDD posted kinda regularly until Friday. Maybe he's just been busy this weekend (was St Patty's day yesterday after all). His posts haven't really been blah though.

I was out of town for the NCAA tournament this last weekend, so yeah.

~~

Can't say I'm really interested in a Malee wagon right now since I think the fundamental point she made was a sound one about Nacho.

Dislike Rhinox becuase of the very soft way he's been playing. There's absolutely no conviction in the arguments he was making; his "good point" from LS wasn't actually a good point and it was just the first in a set of panders towards LS that he mde.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Rhinox, I disagree about malee where you say scum wouldn't say oops and unvote. If they realize something is making them look bad, they could definitely back off of it.

And by interactions, I mostly meant the post where he voted you. Vince's take on that threw me off a little.

[Malee]

This post feels fake to me (see #95 and #97 as well.)

That's very townish to say, but it was genuine. I thought nacho voted you, but even without that vote, he still skimmed. I wasn't paying attention enough, my bad.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox, I disagree about malee where you say scum wouldn't say oops and unvote. If they realize something is making them look bad, they could definitely back off of it.

And by interactions, I mostly meant the post where he voted you. Vince's take on that threw me off a little.

Yeah but thats still assuming that it was a scum motivated argument to begin with. Does it make sense for scum-malee to push a case based on nacho voting vincent if she knew nacho didn't actually vote vincent? She'd know it was doomed from the start. In that case, I'd expect a "yeah but nacho was still skimming" explaination, rather than an "oops unvote". Because it wouldn't have made sense to push it in the first place knowing it would only look bad.

And assuming malee, town or scum, actually thought nacho voted vincent (and that it was a significant point), then yes "oops unvote" is the likely response no matter the alignment, but that doesn't say anything about whether scum or town would be more likely to make the argument to begin with. Both town or scum can make those mistakes. Malee is technically null from the exchange, but my gut is saying she's town. Anecdotally, scum are usually more careful to make sure their cases are at least logically sound, if completely fabricated.


(and I was only poking fun about the "interactions" because it implies there was a back and forth between 2 or more parties, not one side repeating the same thing over and over again before the other side responds >.>)

[Rhinox]

Dislike Rhinox becuase of the very soft way he's been playing. There's absolutely no conviction in the arguments he was making; his "good point" from LS wasn't actually a good point and it was just the first in a set of panders towards LS that he mde.

Well we can't all be hardasses like fate >.>

But we talked about the "good point" comment already so I'm not sure what more I can say about it. "

good

point" probably wasn't even the right wording anyways, maybe "interesting point" woulda been better. But it was all just about gauging reactions from you and LastSurvivor, not that I ever intended suspecting you as scum for it.

I'm interested to hear what other argument

s

I've been showing no conviction in, and what other pander

s

towards LS I made. And most importantly, why they're bad/scummy?

[kortul]

Nachomamma8

- controversial read. He is an experienced player, seems calm and confident, yet is flowing with a tide, mostly answering questions, with an occasional relevant question of his own. Not a single vote, even during RVS - those who know him, is it his usual playing style?

Does anybody know the Nachomamma8 enough to answer my question?

And i have a question for

Malee

- can you tell your thoughts/reads on anyone? Now that your case on Nacho is null, whom do you suspect and why?

[hiplop]

Why did you feel the need to make like 3 posts about it saying pretty much exactly the same thing before I came back to respond? Why did you unvote then revote me before I had said anything about it?

Its how I roll, i guess.

I revoted because you just becvame #2 w/ assassin, i changed my mind which put you back at #1

[4nxi3ty]

Does it make sense for scum-malee to push a case based on nacho voting vincent if she knew nacho didn't actually vote vincent?

...malee was voting nacho for skimming and it never really got to the point of pushing for lynch.

[Lastsurvivor]

K hi.

In general SA is starting to bug me less now that he's actually playing. That said, he hasn't convinced me he's town yet.

Anywho

This post feels fake to me (see #95 and #97 as well.)

Why?

FTR I like what you're saying about Hiplop.

This post feels fake to me (see #95 and #97 as well.)

That's very townish to say,

but it was genuine. I thought nacho voted you, but even without that vote, he still skimmed. I wasn't paying attention enough, my bad.

This looks like the second best example of pandering so far this game, and the best example of scum pandering so far this game. The casual "Oh, well, that's very towny of you," while going on to disagree lamely. The reason I put this as the "best" is because Vincent's comment wasn't even a towny comment. It was a vague observation. Ergo, I have no idea why the hell Malee would want to point out that it's very towny when it's barely anything.

But we talked about the "good point" comment already so I'm not sure what more I can say about it. "good point" probably wasn't even the right wording anyways, maybe "interesting point" woulda been better. But it was all just about gauging reactions from you and LastSurvivor, not that I ever intended suspecting you as scum for it.

Confused. Are you saying that your "good point" post was a reaction test?

[funkybike1]

The wonders of Comcast being useless over a weekend... Here's a few of my reads.

To me, it looks like this wagon on

Malee

is sort of forced; there is no relevant reason for her to be scum more than anyone else. LS's argument is based on pandering, which I find not to be a valid scumtell Day 1. However, I respect other people's opinions, and if this behavior continues from Malee, it will be very hard to dig out of the hole she created for herself.

Vincent

, seems to be acting overly townish. I think he's vanilla town (at least for right now).

LS

is leaning town, definitely. I simply don't believe scum would post like that.

4nxi3ty

,... active lurking. No information as of yet.

Hiplop

has contributed to the town's discussion, but I can't get a read of his posts.

Kortul

, I can say, is safely town until proven otherwise.

Rhinox

has changed his behavior from previous games quite a bit, he's played here like a decent townie.

Nachomamma

is scum. I can't see any other possibility.


Nacho, how about you answer your own question?
Post 110: "When you're defending yourself, what other objectives should you have?"

[Fishythefish]

Last, on fish it was a vibe I got from the tone of his posts that looked like scum to me. Let me pull up his ISO and see if I can figure it out:
-ISO 0. Telling everyone at game start to think about wills seems unneccesary and kind of like he's trying to appear helpful, but at that stage really doesn't help anything.
-ISO 1. When asked about the above, he tries to say people will forget if he doesn't remind anyone. A reminder on Page 1 though? Nah, he just wants to appear useful town. The reaction to being questioned about it as well as the will reveal thing are what I saw as "on edge". He seemed pretty defensive for someone not really being pressured or anything.
Everything after that can be summarized as "rhinox is scum, never mind. Bike isn't useful so here's a vote but no one cares so I'm gonna vote malee and just kind of agree with what everyone is saying there."

Malee didn't seem genuine with the over reaction to one thing (nacho) and lack of much else.

On DDD, I honestly don't feel I elaborated a ton. More of that section of the post was me trying to recall Nacho's style.

@ISO 0/1: I was hoping to put the will mechanic in everyone's minds a bit, so that they would think about it. It seemed a better thing to say than nothing. For a full explanation, though I'm not sure it makes things much clearer, I'd been planning to say something less trivial about the will mechanic (such as "don't reveal your townreads" or "don't cluster votes"), but on refreshing my memory on the other LW games I wasn't at all sure that it's worth doing anything except playing normally and sticking your top townread up there. Noone would ever think "oh, that's so useful, he must be town" about ISO 0, and I'd never expect them to, so I'm not really seeing the conniving scum explanation.
@Everything after that: yep, I changed my mind on Rhinox. Yep, I was just following on Malee. Are these scummy things or just things?

Lots of faint townreads on people who feel genuine, which is nice. LS, SA, hiplop and Rhinox are in this category. I don't have any scumreads atm, but I'll spend some time on the game and try to cobble one together tomorrow.

[Lastsurvivor]

yay funky posted things.

Funky, do you agree with the proposed meta about you (by Rhinox I think) that you enjoy playing more as scum?

Also, why is pandering not legitimate on D1? I think trying to flatter your aggressor would work no matter when it happens during the game. And flattery is definitely a popular scum tactic. People think twice about who they're fighting against if that person calls them townies, compliments their arguments etc.'

Also, Funky, you left out a few people in your reads list. Was that intentional? What are your thoughts on Sleepless Assassin?

[Alicewondering]

If Malee flips scum, LS becomes scummier.

Why do you think it would make LS scummier?

He's vouching for her in a way that doesn't exactly feel genuine to me.

it didnt feel like it accomplished anything other than rhinox wanting to appear townie, that really isnt town behavior imo

I dunno, when I'm town, I really want to appear town.... I really don't agree with your vague case/vote on Rhinox.

I don't agree. Scum have no reason to push a case like that if they know the evidence will shoot it down. Seems like she genuine thought nacho had voted vincent. She unvoted when she finally realized she was derping - I'd expect scum to come up with some ad hoc explanation rather than just say oops and unvote.

I conjecture that she skimmed and found something she could make a case on without reading too carefully. Her posts look a little fake in general (though I hate that sort of reasoning). Look at this one:

I wasn't paying attention enough, my bad.

Gives me a bad feeling.

But I see your point, hmm... I'll turn it over.

4nxi3ty,... active lurking. No information as of yet.

I disagree with this. I think 4nx is just concise.

Nachomamma is scum. I can't see any other possibility.

why?

Vince is probtown.

[LlamaFluff]

~bump~