Open 385 - No Lynching Town - GAME OVER

[andrew94]

ok so shotgun =/= shotty


1) i dont like sleepkrew's attitude. you quote the same post over and over again?

to me, it seems like shotgun is trying to get ppl to answer questions to get the game going, seems like he exaggerated when he said he could tell alignemtns (who can lol), then sleepy just jumps on that forever and doesnt let go.


err the buddying part is null

er i also dont agree about the part where acrv chooses sk( i think he said in a previous game of mine that he likes sk?)



@pack, i read the first paragraph of the essay, i dont get what your trying to convey here




2) meta is actually looks town to me, he tries to get the angry people to calm donw, something i dont see scum doing atm


@pack, can you explain your last sentence

[SleepyKrew]

What post am I repeatedly quoting?

[Vincent2128]

What post am I repeatedly quoting?

andrew, skimming already? Krew's only quoted one of his and one of AcRv's posts.
VOTE: andrew94

[andrew94]

post 29 32?

[andrew94]

nice reasoning vincent too

[Vincent2128]

post 29 32?

Read again.
For a couple posts nobody responded to what Krew said, so Krew quoted it once more.
Once is not

over and over again

[AcRv]

3. Where do you live?
Under your bed. Well, some of the time. But normally in Adelaide, Australia. And before someone asks, no we don't ride kangaroos around, and we don't have snakes get in our electrical wires. Drop bears, on the otherhand...

How about them Koalas in your backyard? And Alligators living in your pond?

[tangent]Alligators? In Australia? No, we have crocodiles, not alligators... You remember Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter? Crocodile Dundee? Not a single alligator in sight. And I'd say the same about ponds as well... that implies that we've got water...[/tangent]

Looking at the thread, SleepyKrew is coming off to me as just really stubborn... not getting a lot else out of him.
and Vincent, you played with andrew94 in C9++. You should know that he makes slight errors like that. It means he's oblivious, not scum. And if you're trying for a policy lynch then I shall point out that if he is town, then we'll just get a no lynch, and then scum will probably shoot someone else because an oblivious confirmed town wouldn't really be scum's main target if there were other people who they thought were more of a threat to their faction.

Actually, that's a general thing, in case anyone hadn't figured out, policy lynches won't really be very effective in this setup. If anyone gets the urge to try one at any point

[Packbat]

@pack, i read the first paragraph of the essay, i dont get what your trying to convey here

That there isn't some gigantic lever which slams down as votes switch from "we have no information and are voting based on rolling dice" to "we know who is town and who is scum and are gunning for lynches". The transition is a process whereby votes shift from being based on noise to being based on signal, if you'll forgive the metaphor.

2) meta is actually looks town to me, he tries to get the angry people to calm donw, something i dont see scum doing atm

That's a good way of putting it.

@pack, can you explain your last sentence

When [X] answers the question [Y] was asking [Z], it makes it harder for [Y] to evaluate [Z] because, if [Z] is scum and [X] is town, [Z] can use [X]'s response to help determine what townies find towny. Therefore we on Mafiascum.net discourage people from answering questions not directed at themselves.

[Metabot]

On my pad

I like bat.

[SleepyKrew]

Okay guys (Gunny, ACRV, Meta). I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But
play some fucking Newbie games
And that's why I'm being a jackass to you guys. Partially because I'm just an abrasive person sometimes, and partially because you have no clue what's going on.
And I'm one of the nicest jackasses.

Vincent:
Thanks, but leave the defending myself to the me please. Also, thoughts on anything else besides andrew?

[andrew94]

Im at school now, i would like to point out that vincent ignores the posts in between and just stayed at me

and yea i made a mistake, 'deal with it pic'


when i get home, ill read pack's response

unvote

[drmyshotgun]

I defend people who I feel I deserve to be defended. I agree with people who I feel deserve to be agreed with. Just because I spoke in your favor doesn't necessarily mean I'm trying to get your favor... unless you can show that I wouldn't normally agree/defend what I did.

Was your vote RVS (with a weak reason behind it) to generate discussion, or are you actually supporting me getting lynched today?

Justification of buddying here. This time done AFTER the action he took which is a change.
Who was talking about lynch here? No-one. Why are you nervous with only two votes? I'd say it's still far way to go (now its reduced to 1).

The fact that I acknowledge the outcome should indicate i'm more towny, actually. I'm not afraid of shining the spotlight on me, at least not in the beginning of the game when i'm not really wasting anyone's time (in fact, I'm doing the opposite)

As Sleepy pointed out, a WIFOM this early in the game doesn't look very good for me.
So you are not afraid of spotlights, but you reacted quite nervously to two votes on you. Interesting.

I don't think I've been defensive lately. If I have, then its probably because its something easy to do when we're out of food.

I think all you've been doing so far was defending yourself, justifying this and that, ammending your past, current, future faults.

He said why before, basically quoted your "did your brain turn off before post 4."

Packback: Yeah, I understand now. I'm still expecting you to tell me after rvs is over.

As others indicated, answering a question directed at someone else. Giving your buddy a chance?
Or are you just further establishing yourself as a buddy of all buddies?

Sleepykrew: From my pov, its not so much as what we could possibly gain, but the fact that you seem rather uncomfortable answering questions, which by this point, should be clear to you you might as well answer, just for the sake of having shotty have something more interesting to talk about.

Parroting, and buddying at the same time.

ok so shotgun =/= shotty


1) i dont like sleepkrew's attitude. you quote the same post over and over again?

to me, it seems like shotgun is trying to get ppl to answer questions to get the game going, seems like he exaggerated when he said he could tell alignemtns (who can lol), then sleepy just jumps on that forever and doesnt let go.


err the buddying part is null

er i also dont agree about the part where acrv chooses sk( i think he said in a previous game of mine that he likes sk?)



@pack, i read the first paragraph of the essay, i dont get what your trying to convey here




2) meta is actually looks town to me, he tries to get the angry people to calm donw, something i dont see scum doing atm


@pack, can you explain your last sentence

Give us something new not loads of empty spaces.
But I have to agree that my Random Questions and the claim that I can detect people's alignments from that was exaggerated.
At least it half fuelled the conversations going on right now?

On my pad

I like bat.

Is there anyone in this game who you are not trying to be friends with?
By making a lot of buddies with everyone, you are actually trying to hide your real scum-buddy, aren't you?
Plus some town friends will do nicely on your progress.

Okay guys (Gunny, ACRV, Meta). I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But
play some fucking Newbie games
And that's why I'm being a jackass to you guys. Partially because I'm just an abrasive person sometimes, and partially because you have no clue what's going on.
And I'm one of the nicest jackasses.

Vincent:
Thanks, but leave the defending myself to the me please. Also, thoughts on anything else besides andrew?

Enlighten me, Jackass. What is going on?

[SleepyKrew]

A bunch of people are spewing jibberish.

[Packbat]

A bunch of people are spewing jibberish.

Who, what, when, where, and why? I'm curious.

[Metabot]

First of all, sleepy,

We have played newbie games. I don't see how answering questions for the sake of saying

something

as opposed to saying nothing indicates we are newbie... What struck you at what I did as newbie?

Lol, being nice to people is scummy now? In my experience, being offensive is worse; its disruptive. Scum can reduce the fake-scumhunting they do by OMGUS tunneling someone else in a mudslinging contest.

At shotty: I don't see myself being defensive, much less than "nervous." I'll tell you why I was inquiring on the votes on me all in due time. (feel free to ask me about it like ~ two pages if I forget). My meta/playstyle/activity kinda makes me easy target for people to throw mud at, but this early in the game, I don't really care. We can analyze mud. Especially because you're talking more about "actions" not "motivations" which is where the real money is made.

Shotty: Do you know why wifom is scummy?

And on the bat comment, I was more referring to the first and last parts, in that he makes sense, and is logical, which I love!

and Vincent, you played with andrew94 in C9 . You should know that he makes slight errors like that. It means he's oblivious, not scum. And if you're trying for a policy lynch then I shall point out that if he is town, then we'll just get a no lynch, and then scum will probably shoot someone else because an oblivious confirmed town wouldn't really be scum's main target if there were other people who they thought were more of a threat to their faction.Actually, that's a general thing, in case anyone hadn't figured out, policy lynches won't really be very effective in this setup. If anyone gets the urge to try one at any point

Do you have the link to this thread? Were you in the game with them?

PEDIT: Sleepykrew: I don't think you're better than us. I would suggest you stop acting like it, unless you can quote some statistics or get us some results.

[SleepyKrew]

No, I'm not better. Just more experienced.

[Metabot]

More questions:
Sleepy, why did you say RVS was over? What was your original reason for voting Shotty?
Vincent, why did Shotty's claim make you nervous? Would you say it made you nervous?
Shotty, why/how did you decide to start off with RQS?
Shotty, how has it helped so far in getting your reads on people? BE SPECIFIC.
Shotty, why does it bother you on the fact that I "bothered to acknowledge the possible outcome of [my] choice"?

er i also dont agree about the part where acrv chooses sk( i think he said in a previous game of mine that he likes sk?)

Andrew: Sorry, having trouble parsing this. What does this mean?

Shotty and Vincent and Pack, could you give me a couple of lines about what you think about each other.

[Packbat]

I want to hear more from Vincent2128, for certain, and I am planning to reread the thread with a particular focus on drmyshotgun soon.

[Vincent2128]

Vincent, why did Shotty's claim make you nervous? Would you say it made you nervous?

Bad choice of wording.

Shotty and Vincent and Pack, could you give me a couple of lines about what you think about each other.

Gunny: I like his lead he's pushing on Meta, but otherwise I have yet to see anything come from his questions that he can 'determine alignments' from. I also get a feeling that the conflict with Sleep is town v town...
Pack: His reasoning's good, however there's not too much to talk about from him as of yet.

[SleepyKrew]

UNVOTE:

[SleepyKrew]

Spoiler: Gunny

It's a good gesture to try to get discussion started, but random questions don't actually help. Think about it. If people took your questions seriously, we'd be discussing Chocolate Batmen, not Mafia. It also isn't wise to promise you can do something (like discern everyone's alignments) when you actually can't. There's no simple way to get a game truly started. Usually the RVS goes on for a couple pages until something worthwhile happens. This is why I declared my vote on you serious, to immediately get game-related discussion going.    
I have a couple questions now:

In both posts 9 and 26, you quote post 7 (Vincent asking if you're bluffing), but you reply differently both times. Can you explain this dissonance?

Sorry, this is more advice. I'm just going in the order of things in the thread. Pointing out that Meta is getting preempitvely defensive is interesting. Normally, being preemtively defensive is regarded as scummy, but he was answering a non-game related question. However, be on the lookout of him and others doing this on relevant topics.

Why did you vote Meta in 27?

How come you persisted I answer your questions, even after we'd gotten discussion flowing?

Spoiler: Meta

Why did you feel the need to tell us that you're town?

Don't speak for others.

In Post 18, what's better than RVS and RQS? 

Why'd you FoS me instead of vote me?

You claim to understand my "brain shut off before 4" comment. Please explain it to the class. 

You seem to be the most anti-arguing guy here. What would you do if I threatened you. For example, what if I told you not to test my patience? Am I scummy for that? 

If someone thinks it's RVS but isn't voting, are they being anti-town?

I don't understand why we have to wait for you to tell us why you were questioning the votes on you.

What is WIFOM? Is it good or bad? Why?    

I'll answer your first question in 66 once you answer these. As for the initial vote, it was RVS because he's named after shotty.

Spoiler: andrew

So your first attack on me is a blatant lie. You also seem to be selectively reading, because I'm definitely not the only one still discussing the questions. What buddying part is null? Why? You admit that my "over and over again" was a whole two posts, and all you can say is "deal with it"? And kept your vote on Pack for a while, didn't you?

Spoiler: AcRv

In your first post, you say you want to focus on the game, yet most of the post is answering unrelated questions. Explain please?

Interesting, I thought you didn't like tangents...

Let people defend themselves.

Spoiler: Vincent

Why did you do nothing in your first post?

Why did you answer the questions later?

What is your read on Meta?

Spoiler: Packbat

Why did you unvote Meta?

Umm... That's all actually.

VOTE: andrew
I'm leaning Metascum as well, he's just trying too hard to appear town. 

[Metabot]

Spoiler: Response

Why did you feel the need to tell us that you're town?
Because what I do is town motivated, and I believe that it should be seen that way. I like being town, and seen as town. It means I can work more freely to scumhunt without having to defend against stuff as much. I've heard this in my last game too, that I "try too hard."

Don't speak for others.
Understood. I don't know why I did that, I think I was just bored with nothing to do xP

In Post 18, what's better than RVS and RQS?
Excellent question, didn't know if anybody would pick up on that.

Why'd you FoS me instead of vote me?
I honestly don't vote that much... its been in my meta. I didn't see much of a difference, only that I generally fos a lot more than I vote. When I vote, its usually because I believe that I've come to a conclusion on the best lynch for the day, and I probably won't be changing it. In general, pretty akward with votes, I've voted for the same person twice before, and I've forgotten to take my votes off people when I should have.

You claim to understand my "brain shut off before 4" comment. Please explain it to the class.
I'm not sure where I claimed to understand it, I was asking a bit about it earlier. Basically, random vote post 2, person voted in post 3, you gave your reason why and kept it the dude with an explanation in 4. You asked if my brain shut off before 4 because I seemingly didn't see/understand post 4.

You seem to be the most anti-arguing guy here. What would you do if I threatened you. For example, what if I told you not to test my patience? Am I scummy for that?
I believe that destructive argument is scummy because it is inherently anti-town. Most fighting is done by town, obviously because there is more town, and I don't think most scum can comfortably pull of scum-v-scum fights just to fuck with town. So, its not exactly you're scummy, just that you're not being as awesome townie as you could be... and scum can use an "emotional excuse" to pass as town. Then again, scum could be all honeybuddy to gain favor, and then let town infight and kill itself late game, which is even more why we should, as a whole, be nice to each other. Oh, and to answer your question, no I wouldn't be. I'm not going to fight with you, so unless your comments because distracting or disruptive, I won't care that much. I'd really really rather you be nice to me though, just because. xP

If someone thinks it's RVS but isn't voting, are they being anti-town?
I doubt it. RVS in the literal is completely useless. The votes are not whats important, ironically, but the words that come after. Thus, fossing works just as well, as does questions, discussion on gameplay to a lesser extent, and even general chitchat.

I don't understand why we have to wait for you to tell us why you were questioning the votes on you.
I don't either. Ask me later, I might remember. (tbh, its not that important, but I like having something up my sleeve, perhaps for egotistical effects xP)

What is WIFOM? Is it good or bad? Why?
Well, I've been thinking about this throughout several games now, and I've just kept my thoughts to myself. I havn't read any discussion boards or anything like that, so all these thoughts are mine. However, I've just asked shotty the same question, and I think I'll let him answer first. I'll load my draft and post it after he does, though.

I'll answer your first question in 66 once you answer these. As for the initial vote, it was RVS because he's named after shotty.
I'm doing this, but I'd just like to ask, why do you want me to answer these first? And you've answered my questions in 66 in your last post.

More townpoints for sleepy btw, he's being much more pro-town now. Quoting inside spoilers is a bitch, so please excuse me. In regard to your questions towards:
Gunny: Questions seem to suggest you think he's town. I've actually never seen/heard a player suggest who someone else should keep an eye on in that manner. Feels weird. So I'm guessing "RVS is now over" is you saying that that vote is serious.
Andrew: You find him scummy. What do you think of the guy who defended him?


Three of you I think are relatively towny, three of you relatively scummy. Where do you guys think you fall and why?

[Packbat]

Why did you unvote Meta?

Primarily because the reasons I thought I had for voting him didn't stand up. When I was writing up why I was voting him, I was reading posts like #8 in detail, planning to explain why they were vacuous ... and noticed that they weren't. That post, for example, contains some original setup analysis. Some other things - like his misunderstanding of your #4 - represent newbtells, not scumtells.

So I unvoted for two reasons. First, because I didn't see a reason to leave my vote there. Second, because I wanted to see if drmyshotgun would ditch the wagon when I did.

VOTE: Vincent2128

I don't see one sensible post in his ISO. And I think he's being opportunistic, voting for andrew94.

[andrew94]

@pack thanks i understand what you meant now. just dont know what 'unadulterated' was

@sleepy im sure acrv played some newbie games, ive seen him for a long time

i see shotgun is tunneling



@meta i was replying to shotgun's analysis of his random questioons. he said acrv was getting defensive etc.
also, turns out shotgun was exaggerating (he admitted it) and is using far fetched notions


lets see sleep'w list

shotgun: being nice guy to him
meta: spams him with question
andrew: err here we go
1) blatant lie?
2) wtf read my post properly
3) yes it was 2 posts, deal with it
4) vote on pac was random vote

acrv: spaming question
vincent: spamming question
packbat: being nice guy


another point i have to make is

shotgun posts questions
sleepy flat out doesnt answer them
ppl ask sleepy y
he says hes pro and ppl should do newbie games

that sounds like a plot discussed before hand

[AcRv]

Okay guys (Gunny, ACRV, Meta). I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But
play some fucking Newbie games
And that's why I'm being a jackass to you guys. Partially because I'm just an abrasive person sometimes, and partially because you have no clue what's going on.
And I'm one of the nicest jackasses.

I never said you were a jackass, I said you were boring. I just don't see why people can't phase into the serious part of the game, that's all. I do have a clue to what's going on. So far I've posted twice (I aim for at least one post a day after school, sometimes I get lucky and am able to make two. Mainly in holidays and on weekends). First post was an intro, answered some questions, and my second post gave that I thought you were being stubborn (generally a null read for me) and pointing out that Vincent should know better than to vote andrew94 for not counting given the last game we played with him. So if I didn't know what was going on, how would I have known Vincent's reason for placing a vote? I may screw around a bit early game, but when things start speeding up a but more I can, and probably will, cut down on the stupid comments I add to my posts. If your next post is going to be "why haven't you said anything, then

When [X] answers the question [Y] was asking [Z], it makes it harder for [Y] to evaluate [Z] because, if [Z] is scum and [X] is town, [Z] can use [X]'s response to help determine what townies find towny. Therefore we on Mafiascum.net discourage people from answering questions not directed at themselves.

and Vincent, you played with andrew94 in C9 . You should know that he makes slight errors like that. It means he's oblivious, not scum. And if you're trying for a policy lynch then I shall point out that if he is town, then we'll just get a no lynch, and then scum will probably shoot someone else because an oblivious confirmed town wouldn't really be scum's main target if there were other people who they thought were more of a threat to their faction.Actually, that's a general thing, in case anyone hadn't figured out, policy lynches won't really be very effective in this setup. If anyone gets the urge to try one at any point

Do you have the link to this thread? Were you in the game with them?

It got lost in the Rollback or whatever it is people have decided to call it. Basically it was a game of C9++ that I replaced into on Night 1. Vincent was scum, andrew94 was town, I was 1-shot cop. And andrew was targetted at various points for missing details like that. And Vincent should've remembered that.

In your first post, you say you want to focus on the game, yet most of the post is answering unrelated questions. Explain please?

Interesting, I thought you didn't like tangents...

Let people defend themselves.

Where did I say I didn't like tangents? If the game still existed I'd link that game where Elmo and I had a nice lengthy discussion about why I should watch Sgt. Frog while a game was in full progress. Providing there is more to the post than a tangent than I really don't mind. The good Doctor's question were rather random, but what was I meant to do? Join you in trying to vote someone for being useless? That sounds an awful lot like a policy lynch. In a game where lynching a town does nothing. Great work there.

No, I'm not better. Just more experienced.

Woah, so you're experienced? Then why did you put a serious vote on someone for being useless in a game where they wouldn't get lynched? And let's say that the lynch did go ahead. Now, if what you're saying is true, we'd have a useless confirmed town that would be wasting a spot because scum wouldn't waste their kill on him.

So basically you wanted us to waste our lynch straight away. Great thing to hear from the most experienced player...

I'm going to try and do something that won't benefit us in any way.

@sleepy im sure acrv played some newbie games, ive seen him for a long time

Yeah, I quoted where that came from up a bit, and I'll just answer it now because I didn't want to put something different in my above post, but I could, if you want, post a list of every player that I've played with, and give you a list of all the games I was in... unfortunately none of my games remain in their entirety on this site, so you'll just have to take my word, and the list that I'll put up if you want to push that point. But I doubt you will because you seem to be the sort who wouldn't push on minor issues like that.