Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Norman]

Also you forget Foxace voted for me that one time. So that contradicts your statement of everyone on my townlist hasn't voted for me.

[trekker]

VOTE: Whoever Norman is voting for

[trekker]

VOTE: Pine

[Norman]

VOTE: Pine

That's the spirit Trekker!

[Norman]

Although I'm starting to have second thoughts about Mhork now.

[Tammy]

ITT Norman is going to soft-claim and backtrack on every possible role in the hopes of outing Town Powerroles!!!

Good Times!

Can we have lynch time now please?

Shutup you pathetic scumbag. I know you want to lynch me because I'm such a great fucking target. Just shutup and die.

Norman, you're making it really hard for me not to just jump on your wagon for the sake of my own sanity.

Tammy, let me ask you something. What do you think of MoI?

I've never played in a game with a hydra before, so this is a rather new experience for me. It's hard to get a read. Every time I think I have a fairly decent town read on him (them), the head changes and it's a bit jaring. Anyway, I wouldn't vote for them if that's what you're asking.

[Norman]

ITT Norman is going to soft-claim and backtrack on every possible role in the hopes of outing Town Powerroles!!!

Good Times!

Can we have lynch time now please?

Shutup you pathetic scumbag. I know you want to lynch me because I'm such a great fucking target. Just shutup and die.

Norman, you're making it really hard for me not to just jump on your wagon for the sake of my own sanity.

Tammy, let me ask you something. What do you think of MoI?

I've never played in a game with a hydra before, so this is a rather new experience for me. It's hard to get a read. Every time I think I have a fairly decent town read on him (them), the head changes and it's a bit jaring. Anyway, I wouldn't vote for them if that's what you're asking.

Each head has to agree on something. So I'll wait till the other head of MoI responds and maybe he/she might be able to convince it's meaner head which I dislike... Alot... Although I doubt it even has an opinion.

[Tammy]

I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night. Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone. There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions. But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

[Norman]

I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night. Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone. There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions. But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

Actually to what Tammy just said to this^... I'm starting to have second thoughts about Zdenek as well...

What am I doing... What... Am I doing...

[Tammy]

@AurorusVox

You were emphatically behind LMP's suggestion that we massclaim. You said you'd give reasons why it works and that Feysal's argument fell apart. Do you now agree with LMP that Feysal's argument was actually good?

[Zdenek]

Tammy, The posts that I quoted show you questioning other people's attacks on people. The issue with this is that by doing that, you are softly defending the people who are under attack. At best this is antitown because you are reducing the pressure on the people under attack without actually committing to saying that you think they are town, and at worst it is scummy because should one of these people end up being lynched and flipping town, you can garner credibility for having defended them. So the issue isn't that you were asking questions, it's the sort of questions that you were asking consistently while not taking stances on very few things.

There's also no contradiction between me thinking that you were being aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's arguments against others and that you were being overly cautious by not voting. They are both things that were doing and both scummy (and for that matter, not voting at this stage of the game is really unhelpful).

[Pine]

Pine

Are you fucking serious?

I had made exactly one post prior to this. One. Which was an early suspicion of the current leading wagon.

And yet, you decided to more or less ignore anyone else and focus entirely on me, capitalizing on my absence.

You've referenced Epic Mafia, so I can't figure out whether this is general idiocy, or the completely ass-backwards and bad meta you've picked up from that site.

Reading right now to more fully catch up. I really can't stand these threads that put out several pages in the course of a day, then get pissy with people who are constantly behind. Stop reveling in your own waste, shut the fuck up, and let others catch up.

[Pine]

I didn't take tabs of people watching the thread. Pine was the only person I occasionally checked for as he was the person I was waiting to question.

Dammit. This was supposed to be the quote for above. My browser sometimes substitutes the search for the quote when I do CTRL+F

[Jackal711]

VOTE: Norman

Continually spouting nonsense, as well as having over 1/3 of the total posts in this thread which is making it hard to catch up.

Call it a policy lynch if you want, but his large number of posts seems scummy to me as it's hindering scumhunting.

[MaguaofIllusion]

My other head is wrong. Norman is town. Aggressiveness is town. Stupidity is town.

Norman-scum is either getting himself lynched or getting himself vigged. Bad scum plan, *especially* in what is already known to be a multiscum setup. Norman's "I'm not OMGUSing, I'm voting him for voting me," is an obvious troll, not some blatant tell.

Seriously, town does stupid shit all the goddamn time, waaaaaay more than scum ever do. Every self vote I've ever seen that wasn't a hammer: town. Benmage cc'ing a cop in ASOIAF and getting him lynched: town. Magister-fucking-Ludi-fucking-claiming-cop-with-a-guilty-on-a-VT in AFFC: town. Town are morons.

So I shouldn't really be surprised that people in general are acting moronic here. Norman is a distraction, sure. Except in getting people to want him dead, he's been useless. Don't care.

So between AV, trekker, Skevnoy and Haze we have at least 1 confirmed scum and possibly more. Good to know.

On this I agree with other head, except I don't think it's Skenvoy. And my money is AurorusVox. Has posted in another game over a period of a day, but nothing here.

Pine's still scum.
Shadow1psc is still passive, still don't like.
Wouldn't mind AV or Haze dying.

But Norman's town.

UNVOTE: Norman
VOTE: Pine

[MaguaofIllusion]

Jackal's post is full of shit, by the by.

[Norman]

Pine

Are you fucking serious?

I had made exactly one post prior to this. One. Which was an early suspicion of the current leading wagon.

And yet, you decided to more or less ignore anyone else and focus entirely on me, capitalizing on my absence.

You've referenced Epic Mafia, so I can't figure out whether this is general idiocy, or the completely ass-backwards and bad meta you've picked up from that site.

Reading right now to more fully catch up. I really can't stand these threads that put out several pages in the course of a day, then get pissy with people who are constantly behind. Stop reveling in your own waste, shut the fuck up, and let others catch up.

First of all, Pine, I don't know about you but I'm a good guy. And I'll be Lawful Good because I don't like chaos...

Secondly, I'm voting for you because someone had said earlier you were buddying with someone, whether or not this is true can be debated, and quite honestly I don't even see who you are supposedly buddied with.

Thirdly, Pine, since I just revealed pretty much my role to you, publicly, so do me a pleasant favour and get your absurd vote off me along with the other uninformed ficks who placed their stupid shit votes...

Lastly, since pretty much every active player has voted for me, I've decided to share with everyone my true intentions and reasonings behind every sort of coverup in this game. After every active player decided to vote me (beginning with briz) I did something incredibly retarded but worth doing because I'm a reckless gambling P.I. I wanted to lynch myself in the case that people were getting annoyed. By doing this I influenced a vig claim and made everyone speculate if there was a vig. This probably caused more and more intentions for the scumbags to vote for me. So afterwords when briz was doing all this shit in the background, it was the perfect time to make an act of deception. So I violently shouted in words that I, myself, was a scumbag. In doing so, pretty much everyone reacted to it and more of them voted for me. While acting like a scumbag I wanted everyone to try and accuse me with bullshit reasoning. Some of it worked, some of it didn't. The players I've found scumbaggish so far are kondi, Lemons, Cooldog, briz, and Jackal after analyzing each post for bullshit reasoning. The people who had seemed to have a reason but really didn't are also bullshitters. I'm safe to say atleast one dirtbag is on my train. Also a word about Shadow1psc, I wanted him to lynch me but he was hesitant to the point and didn't bother listening to me. Whether this is an act of scumbaggery or townish-like, I'll never know.

What I just did was reverse psychology. Maybe there was never a scumbag on my wagon, but with about 8 people on it I find it hard to believe.

I can name a few of these bullshit reasonings: The way how I play this game, and the OMGUS debate. If you still think I'm bullshitting you can go to Hell and play Russian Roulette with Hitler.

[Norman]

Oh wait, I wanted to vote, right. And MoI, I'm glad you saw through my distractions, or aggressiveness. Whatever the case I still think your other head sucks.

Vote: Pine

Shutup and die scumbag, I'll enjoy when you fucking cry for mercy.

[Foxace36]

Pine

Are you fucking serious?

I had made exactly one post prior to this. One. Which was an early suspicion of the current leading wagon.

And yet, you decided to more or less ignore anyone else and focus entirely on me, capitalizing on my absence.

You've referenced Epic Mafia, so I can't figure out whether this is general idiocy, or the completely ass-backwards and bad meta you've picked up from that site.

Reading right now to more fully catch up. I really can't stand these threads that put out several pages in the course of a day, then get pissy with people who are constantly behind. Stop reveling in your own waste, shut the fuck up, and let others catch up.

Dafuq is Epic Mafia?


I would comment more on this but I think it's pretty obvious at how mad you are getting. And not to mention the pointless reasoning for your anger.

My vote stands.

[Pine]

Fuck you, asshat.

[Norman]

Fuck you, asshat.

Art thou mad, scumbag?

[Foxace36]

Can we get this day moving now?

Extremely scummy acts coupled with pointless rage. Pine is our scum, let's get this shit on the road!

[Foxace36]

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Fucking phone and its pointless autocorrect......

[Tammy]

Tammy, The posts that I quoted show you questioning other people's attacks on people. The issue with this is that by doing that, you are softly defending the people who are under attack. At best this is antitown because you are reducing the pressure on the people under attack without actually committing to saying that you think they are town, and at worst it is scummy because should one of these people end up being lynched and flipping town, you can garner credibility for having defended them. So the issue isn't that you were asking questions, it's the sort of questions that you were asking consistently while not taking stances on very few things.

There's also no contradiction between me thinking that you were being aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's arguments against others and that you were being overly cautious by not voting. They are both things that were doing and both scummy (and for that matter, not voting at this stage of the game is really unhelpful).

Hmmm...Either you are purposefully twisting things or we're having a misunderstanding? I'm not defending anyone. When I do defend someone, it's not lightly veiled in the sort of way you're trying to suggest. I question or attack just as equally obvious as I defend. I don't put little underhanded hints in questions that I can take credit for later. My questions are completely straightforward; I'm asking exactly what I want to know, and I'm not going to stop asking questions.

I also don't drum up support for a wagon I might want to hop into by asking said person questions, that's how I evaluate them and make a determination of them. If I want to start a wagon on someone I do it, and I really don't care about what support I might or might not get.

Looking over what you quoted...

Question 1 - I take you think I'm defending RT by asking LMP what about his posts is screaming scum? My question isn't defending RT at all. I'm trying to get a better idea of LMP and what he regards as scum reads. My follow up question to LMP regarding the RT conversation, there was a quote that I had a thought about and wanted to see what his was.

Question 2 - I don't know who you think I'm defending. That question was to Greenknight on why he changed his vote. It was also after he told me he was surprised you were voting with him because you suspected him in the last thread. It prompted me to go back to the last thread to see what he was talking about, in which I found that he had been suspecting you, but dropped it. I wondered why.

Question 3 - Again, don't know who you think I'm defending. Am I defending shadow1 by the question? I asked GNR if he had any other suspicion besides the vote change. I'm trying to make up my mind on both of these people.

Question 4 - You think I'm defending Norman I suppose? Not so, I'm again trying to get a sense of LMP and what he regards as scum tells.

There is no reducing pressure to anyone to ask questions. Again, the questions I asked were completely valid, didn't come close to defending anyone softly or otherwise, and don't give me anything in regards to credibility for defending anyone. All they do succeed in doing is give me a way to evaluate them. So, um, yeah, don't know how much more clear I can be about that.

Eh, yeah, I'm asking questions to help me form what stances I will take. It's Wednesday. The game just rebooted Sunday? I came in on Monday. I haven't had a chance to reread the old thread carefully, other than to check for consistency or to ask the questions about the old thread that I did. You are able to come up with stances that quickly? Good for you. I'm actually a bit more deliberative, and I need to interact with people before I can even begin to form an opinion of them.

But LOL that it's scummy to ask questions and a bigger LOL that it's scummy that I haven't stuck a vote on someone yet. Voting practices are not good indicators of alignment at all, it has more to do with personality and how people play than anything. Besides, scum knowing that the good mafia fundies are going to call them out for not voting, tend to make sure to follow the herd and vote for someone they can easily get away with to avoid the "your vote is your voice...if you're not voting, you're not helping" speech. If I were scum, I have several people I could have easily already stuck my vote on to make sure to blend in.

I then wouldn't be having this conversation, because I'd be being helpful...or would I? Is it more helpful for me to vote before I know who I want to vote for and jump all over the place as I change my mind by the minute/hour/day? Or is it just as likely that the game will go on satisfactorily with me voting tomorrow or Friday when I feel better about my vote? (The truth is I am a bit of a cautious voter. I'm working on it and once spent an entire game holding onto my vote until I hammered or near hammered each day at deadline - yep as an innocent and I didn't get one vote speech that game at all. I'm not one of those vote hoppers, so either I vote early and park it or take my time, especially when there are several people who are suspicious.)

I don't know...the "you must have a vote on at all times" is rather silly as far as I'm concerned, and I can be just as helpful to the game, if not more, by generating conversation. The idea that people will only answer questions or interact if a vote is pressuring them to doesn't hold up to experience. And if I do find it's true, I have no problem placing a pressure vote. One thing I do like though are those who use the voting lecture as a means of appearing active.

Regardless, I'm pretty stubborn, so either you can accept that I'm helpful by asking questions and evaluating people and will vote on my own time, or you can harp on it - that will only make me dig my heels in though and probably delay the vote I said will come in a day or two.

[Norman]

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Fucking phone and its pointless autocorrect......

Freedom at Iwo Jima!

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!!

Just... Felt like saying that.