Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Tammy]

Although Zdenek - by your own logic, now that you've questioned my questions to those people, are you defending them by asserting that my questions are invalid?

[Lord Mhork]

Hah! I knew I had a reason to like Norman!

@MaguaofIllusion:
No offense, but would you please take the dissonance to a QuickTopic? Before it gets out of hand, yeah?

[Norman]

Hah! I knew I had a reason to like Norman!

@MaguaofIllusion:
No offense, but would you please take the dissonance to a QuickTopic? Before it gets out of hand, yeah?

Although Mhork, I don't think my reverse psychology tactic was doing any good in this game. Usually in smaller games because there's less players to make them react upon common annoyances and therefore I can get a larger view of what's happening, what their alignment probably is, etc.. But for larger games like this it's ineffective because some people that are inactive don't get to see the thread and they're Mafia and when some do they tell their scumbag friends to stop posting and improvise.

That's what I'm afraid of now, so I think they're just going to crawl back into their hiding place and discuss things over. Yeah... Should've just acted normal... Nevertheless I think I've atleast trapped one scumbag onto the spot, and that would be Pine, or some other people I had mentioned earlier. If we do get Pine and he's scum, the effect is probably working a bit. But like I said it's obsolete in larger games like these.

[MaguaofIllusion]

@MaguaofIllusion:
No offense, but would you please take the dissonance to a QuickTopic? Before it gets out of hand, yeah?

Hi!

No.

[Norman]

I wish I never told anyone this type of strategy because I like to keep things to myself, but whatever. It's not like I'm going to be playing with you all again anyways.

[brizingre1]

I wish I never told anyone this type of strategy because I like to keep things to myself, but whatever. It's not like I'm going to be playing with you all again anyways.

Norman, seeing as you're here, why is trekker town to you?

[Norman]

Idk. He's agreeing with everything I say, and he's voting for the Pine guy. He might be a rainbow wizard of neutral alignment for all I'm aware of.

[Norman]

Or maybe... A sorcerer, but then again sorcerers are natural born users of magic. Wizards are intellectuals who seek forms of magic to better improve their mastery of it. And then there's the paladin who is a more melee mastered form of the Cleric, both of whom deeply believe in a God and want to fight for it wheneve it calls them for holy crusades, peeing on another god's sacred temple, etc. And then there's the rogue who steals things and bullshits people... And then there's the bard! Who only makes music and annoys the hell out of people (but that's not me, I'll becoming up last.) Then there's the raw powered fighter, the barbarian, he simply goes beserk and kills people with 2 handed heavy weapons or a weapon in each hand. And then there's the regular fighter who isn't as crazy as the barbarian but maybe that's a good thing. And then there's the ranger who professionalizes in arrows but seldom has time to fight or practice for melee because they're either too weak or they suck at it. And then there's the druid who is like a magical hippy and sits on his ass all day smoking weed except in a much less harmful way by making love with nature. And then threre's the commoner who basically is like, "What?" because they're regular joes.

And then there's my own personal class, unique and awesome in it's own way. I'm the Norman, P.I. The Norman P.I. has certain advantages and certain disadvantages. In fact it's universal and glorious in it's own way. And why? Because I can do anything the above classes do except not do what they do. In other words, I can make people think I'm something that I'm not, in which case if they ever become "friends" with me they get killed with my revolver. Here's a picture of the class.



Sweet.

[Shadoweh]

No please, keep the disagreement, someone around here needs to have some common fucking sense.
I fell asleep in the middle of replying to MoI earlier. To keep it brief, the amount of posts you have is not as important as when you have them. Dropping off in activity when you're under suspicion is scummy, but I've come to the conclusion that Lemon isn't really posting less so much as other people are posting way too much. I still want him to expand his suspicions, the attacks on Norman are too easy and it seems like he forgot he thought Fox was scum.

Speaking of posting way too much, these last few pages. Jackal's post is the epitome of lazy bandwagon hopping. brizingre1 should explain what exactly Norman is guilty of that's scummy, not just anti-town. Haze should explain what exactly about 338 makes voting Pine such a bad idea.

Pine's overreactions to being voted are pretty scummy. Kudos for the rant in #461 trying to reason with the misguided idiots as if they aren't scum to you when your vote says otherwise.

Tammy: As long as I can save the innocent townies from multi-classing into bard it is worth every moment. ^_^/

[CooLDoG]

Idk. He's agreeing with everything I say, and he's voting for the Pine guy. He might be a rainbow wizard of neutral alignment for all I'm aware of.

LOL. Everybody that agrees with you is town. Everybody that doesn't is scum. What was that about bullshit reasons?

[Zdenek]

Tammy, you telling me what you do or would do is pointless. All I can do is look at what you are doing and comment on it, and what I see is you asking a lot of questions and not taking many stances. You say that these questions will help you form your opinions, but I am not going to wait to see if that happens before commenting.

You're right about questions two and three, I meant to comment on them seperately. In question two you are trying to direct greenknight's attention back onto me without saying that you think I'm scummy or that the attention is warranted, and in question three you're trying to get Riggs to give a stronger case on Pine, again without taking a since yourself.

Although Zdenek - by your own logic, now that you've questioned my questions to those people, are you defending them by asserting that my questions are invalid?

So, you were attacking people by asking them questions? If that's not the case, then your question makes no sense.

I like Shadoweh's points against Pine.

[Haze]

@Mod: Inconvenient, but I'll be delcaring V/LA from Now till sunday arvo

@MoI/Shadoweh I think it was?: Gut on tammy

@The person who asked me why I didn't vote Pine:
Like I said, I still think Pine is scummy, but i"ll reserve the vote for when he decides to post, and see if I change my mind. If I vote him before he says anything, then that's extremely hypocritical considering my own position, and at the same time give my own arguments/votes no credibility.

Not a good idea.

And yeah I will catch up. I've gotten a lot faster a reading recently.

[Mastermind of Sin]

@Tammy: Yep. Nope.

Let's kill this Pine fella already!

[Tammy]

Tammy, you telling me what you do or would do is pointless. All I can do is look at what you are doing and comment on it, and what I see is you asking a lot of questions and not taking many stances. You say that these questions will help you form your opinions, but I am not going to wait to see if that happens before commenting.

You're right about questions two and three, I meant to comment on them seperately. In question two you are trying to direct greenknight's attention back onto me without saying that you think I'm scummy or that the attention is warranted, and in question three you're trying to get Riggs to give a stronger case on Pine, again without taking a since yourself.

Although Zdenek - by your own logic, now that you've questioned my questions to those people, are you defending them by asserting that my questions are invalid?

So, you were attacking people by asking them questions? If that's not the case, then your question makes no sense.

I like Shadoweh's points against Pine.

Oh goodie...so you are purposefully and willfully twisting my questions. I guess I was giving you too much credit that this was a simple misunderstanding, and your intent is actually to try to undermine someone who is asking questions and evaluating people. At best you're town who doesn't recognize that asking questions is a good thing, at worst you're scum making up silly accusations about simple questions to try to make someone look bad. Guess which one I'm leaning towards. Call that OMGUS because you've registered suspicion against me all you want. Don't care.

I'm glad you're telling me what I'm doing by my questions AFTER I've already told you there's nothing hidden in those questions and I wanted to know exactly what I wanted to know.

So, in question two I supposedly was trying to direct greenknight's question back onto you REGARDLESS of the fact that I just told you it was in response to him bringing up your suspicion of him in the original thread and the surprise he felt at both of you being on the same wagon now? I'm so glad you cleared up for me what my intentions were. You see I apparently was under the mistaken impression I was asking Greenknight that question to determine why Greenknight changed his mind as I was trying to make sense of Greenknight. I was also under the mistaken impression that if I thought that you were especially scummy that I would ask you a question because that would help me with any thoughts I might have about you. But, no I suppose it makes more sense your way to direct attention back onto you by asking someone else a question about you when your suspicion of said person had already come up. Shew so glad he happened to mention it, so I could slip in your name somehow. I had just been biding my time, chewing my nails, for a way I could call you scummy without doing it directly. Seriously dude, if I wanted to give you attention, I'd gladly do it. But that should be pretty obvious to you as you've already pointed out I ask too many questions.

Do you always spew so much gibberish? Also, now that I think about it...your vote was also on Greenknight in the last incarnation of the thread. It was an OMGUS vote anyway, but when AV said that Greenknight was town, you asked him why Greenknight was town. You responded to a post by AV in the last thread and didn't change your vote to him. Now in this thread, you've voted for AV, but not for Greenknight. What changed your mind about Greenknight?

Since you apparently need an interpretation for questions. In that last question, I'm wondering why YOU aren't voting for Greenknight now since you were in the last thread. You responded to AV but didn't call him scummy in the original thread, so what changed to you thinking that AV was more deserving of a vote than Greenknight now? To make sure this is perfectly clear: I'm not trying to underhandedly direct suspicion onto Greenknight with that question because I'm afraid of making a stance. I'm interested in determining YOUR thought process. Read it a couple of times if you need to.

I don't know what your point is for question three. So what I wanted GNR to tell me if his suspicion on Shadow1 (not Pine by the way, if you're going to accuse me of something at least get the information correct, kthnx) was based on something stronger than the vote change. I'm not trying to make him do anything, but see if he has any other suspicions or if it is just that. If I wanted to try to get him to make a stronger case, I'd say "GNR, while that's a good reason to be suspicious of someone, it's not strong enough to vote someone for...you should offer more information."

Did I say that? Oh, I didn't? Must be that I wanted to know if he had found anything else suspicious then. You know the exact question I asked. Seriously, my questions are completely straightforward; they don't need an interpretor. And, it's completely scummy of you to suggest I'm doing anything with my questions other than what I'm actually asking. Guess what, I'm still not going to stop asking questions or provoking conversation because you're getting scared.

The only thing you've actually been correct about in either of your comments to me is that I haven't taken lots of stances. So what? Seriously, the game JUST STARTED. I'm asking questions to form the basis for stances I will take. I'm glad some of you can get town/scum reads quickly...again, as I said before I'm a bit more deliberative about it. I refuse to fake town or scum reads I don't have. But, you know what, go ahead and think I'm scummy because you don't like my play style. That makes a whole lot of sense, and benefits scum far more than it will benefit town.

Or keep harping on me so that you can appear active...you know like you're actively contributing to something. Oh, and making a strong stance, wouldn't want to discount that one.

If you think my last question to you makes no sense, well then we're in the same boat with each other because I'm still failing to see the sense you purport to be spewing.

[Tammy]

But Zdenek - If you actually do happen to be town and somehow attempting to look out for our best interests. Why don't you ask me something if you want to know it? Play a bit of an active role...you know act like town. Because your seedy little way of distorting people's words and inserting intentions is pretty much the scummiest thing I've seen so far.

You know what. I don't normally vote when I'm this annoyed, but fuck it.

vote zdenek

[LimMePls]

Why are you only concerned with questioning one person?

What's the problem if he is? Your question implies that Foxace36 focusing his questions at one player is somehow bad.

Whoa. People are talking and stuff. I had no idea this thread was back up.

I don't have time right now, but I'll
a) Reread the original thread
b) Read this new thread
c) Reread the original thread again
d) Make a post
tomorrow night, when I have a spare moment.

Did you feel compelled to detail this for some reason?

This is a fantastic question.

Sorry. This is my real question to LMP

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?

How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

What do you think of RT's response to Feysal saying that scum would be insane not to claim the opposite alignment:

"This 100%. A RC kind of defeats the purpose of itself in some aspects. But we also don't know if there's an even number of LE & CE and CG & LG. Or if the total LE + CG = LG + CE. So I suppose some information could certainly be ascertained."

I catch scum on word choice all the time. By far one of my top scum tells is finding scum that appear to be crafting their thoughts to conform/appease the town. Also fence-sitting/wishy-washy language is a big red flag for me. For a great example of these tells, see me catch CoachTravis scum on day 1 in Ghostbusters Mafia, in large part due to the way he used language in that game (see my ISO 1 where I show his backtracking from the use of the word "constant" was scummy and his fence-sitting/wishy-washy language toward Scott Brosius). I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this in my wiki.

As for the quote, I'm not sure I follow the argument of whether or not LE + CG = LG + CE, since the game seemed intentionally designed to have PRECISELY that balance. I'm not sure what "some" information he suggests could be ascertained, but I don't think it outweighs the serious dangers that Feysal correctly identified.

Vote: Myself
Reason: Everyone surprisingly hates me.

This should convince the doubters.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Just so I have you correctly, when he sees his own wagon building, as displayed in a vote count, he immediately hops his vote to the only other viable wagon, and you think suspecting him for that is DISTASTEFUL!? As I see it, that is one of the best arguments for Norman-scum.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Why? This only worked with the mass alignment claim and it's already been proven to be a bad idea.

VOTE: VOTE: Norman

Continually spouting nonsense, as well as having over 1/3 of the total posts in this thread which is making it hard to catch up.

Call it a policy lynch if you want, but his large number of posts seems scummy to me as it's hindering scumhunting.

But Zdenek finds my reasons "distasteful". My mind = blown.

Also not a fan of MOI's "scum wouldn't act this way" argument for Norman. No idea why "aggressive" is a town tell. Scum can easily be aggressive, especially in multiball. And stupidity as a town tell is also so full of fail it's not funny. Do you want a list of shotty-scum games that he got busted for being stupid? Cause I can definitely provide that. Start with the ghostbusters game linked above. So stupid != town and aggressive != town.

[MaguaofIllusion]

@MoS

– Stop trying to bait suspicion. With Trekker and Norman around it’s never going to pay dividends.

Norman is a grade-A VI moron. Regardless of how Town he is per my other head he’s going to be actively helping the scum with his ‘antics’ until he’s dead. Mark my words … he’ll never be scum-killed. So if you want this string of stupidity to continue please feel free to not vote him.

For the record – Norman indicates he thinks scum have daytalk.

Other head – go refresh yourself on Clash of Kings and the process by which competent Town are killed leaving VIs in endgame to screw up what should have been an easy Town Victory. That’s a roadmap to what leaving Norman alive gets you.

Greenknight is tingling my scum-dar. He’s keeping a generally low profile, talking around any significant thread activities, and is taking the position re: Norman I expect from scum – one that allows them to lynch him later on when mislynches are running low.

Any of trekker, Haze and Skenvoy are still great votes. Mod has acknowledged that everyone received new Role PMs so there is no reason why anyone can say “Oh hai, I didn’t know this thread was open”.

Lord Mhork

– so basically Post 428 you were fluffing to look good when you said “There is scum there” since you actually didn’t have any suspects. Also – why didn’t you find the flurry on Lemon to be “odd” since it can't be considered any more 'well grounded'?

What have I learned from Norman? That he’s a Chesskid / Shotty / Furc level VI. There is no grand plan coming together. His tactics are pointless. Go through his ISO and count up the following –

Number of players he accuses of being scum – Wager it is approximately 60% of the playerlist.

Number of actual commitments to positions on players being scum – You will find Zero. His reads list at Post 443 doesn’t commit to actual scum-reads on anyone. FOSes and “Might be scum’ aren’t actual positions.

Also Lord M – please link me to any completed game you have where scum self-voted.

Zdenek gets scum-points for his stance on Norman. Like Greenknight it looks like scum keeping his position open. The fact that they were voting each other (or people claim they were – I didn’t bother re-reading) in the old thread but have a 180 change in this one is worth noting.

@Tammy

– regardless of you stubbornness to not want to vote – who are you biggest three suspects at this stage

--

Shadoweh gets her own section –

First please confirm or deny you are a Mina Alt.

To keep it brief, the amount of posts you have is not as important as when you have them. Dropping off in activity when you're under suspicion is scummy, but I've come to the conclusion that Lemon isn't really posting less so much as other people are posting way too much. I still want him to expand his suspicions, the attacks on Norman are too easy and it seems like he forgot he thought Fox was scum.

Oh, so your argument is that despite being at the top of the list ML was lurking out pressue. Let’s take a spin through the facts, shall we?

Day 1 opens March 18 at 9:51pm (note all times are my personal site time of EDT). Game rules say that prods are given every 48 hours.

You make your “ML is lurking post” on March 20 at 10:40am.

Lemon’s prior post was at March 19 at 6:09pm.

So you were pushing ML as lurking out pressure 16 hours after his last post and 36 hours after the game actually started. So before he could be even due a Prod.

No. Just no. The spam generated in the thread by Norman does mean someone not posting for 16 hours is lurking out pressure. At the point you made your accusations Lemon would not have been due a prod if he had not posted since the game started.

Your “he was lurking out pressure based on when he posted” holds ZERO water. You are scum who got caught with her hand in the cookie jar making a scummy argument and is doing everything you can to extricate yourself.

VOTE: Shadoweh

Die, scum, die!!!

[Shadow1psc]

Shadow1psc is still passive, still don't like.
UNVOTE: Norman
VOTE: Pine

I addressed this, but obviously not well enough?

Also, seriously, is anyone reading my posts? CoolDog posted EXACTLY after my last post, and still addresses nothing. I would quote them, but Cooldog's post in itself is a quote answer wall. Posts # 400 and 401.

[Zdenek]

Tammy, first of all comments like this:

I'm glad you're telling me what I'm doing by my questions AFTER I've already told you there's nothing hidden in those questions and I wanted to know exactly what I wanted to know.

are useless. You telling me that there is nothing hidden in you questions doesn't change the fact that I can see alternative motivations behind your questions.

Second of all, in my experience people have all kinds of reasons for doing the things that they are doing, so there is limited (but not no) use in asking people questions. If one thinks that something is scummy or questionable, I think that's it's better to just say so, and see what comes of it. People's reactions are far more telling than there explanations, which are usually at least somewhat reasonable and tell me nothing about their alignment,

So, sure, you could have good reasons for your questions, but those are reasons that could come from town or from scum, and they don't change the fact that can see scum motivation for your questions.

I've already answered your question about GreenKnight.

LMP, players should not have to delay voting, so that their vote doesn't appear immediately following a vote count, to avoid being called scummy. You think Norman's scummy for getting on the next biggest wagon, okay, but the idea that it's worse because it came right after a vote count is one that I have a problem with.

I'd like you to explain the rationale behind your lynching strategy because in my opinion it was an anti-town strategy. What you were suggesting we do was possibly the worst thing that town could have done in this setup. Being wrong isn't a scum tell, but talking for the sake of talking and suggesting a strategy for town to play by without thinking about it's consequences are, so I'm curious how you came up with your strategy.

My vote where it is currently is useless.

Unvote
Vote ShadowEh

[LimMePls]

LMP, players should not have to delay voting, so that their vote doesn't appear immediately following a vote count, to avoid being called scummy. You think Norman's scummy for getting on the next biggest wagon, okay, but the idea that it's worse because it came right after a vote count is one that I have a problem with.

But the point is that the timing of it was evidence that his vote was just to join the next biggest wagon. So the timing is relevant evidence to the exact point you admit is valid. So what's the problem?

[LimMePls]

I'd like you to explain the rationale behind your lynching strategy because in my opinion it was an anti-town strategy. What you were suggesting we do was possibly the worst thing that town could have done in this setup. Being wrong isn't a scum tell, but talking for the sake of talking and suggesting a strategy for town to play by without thinking about it's consequences are, so I'm curious how you came up with your strategy.

Spoiler: Explanation of my views on a matter that is now irrelevant, but whatever...

I disagree strongly that it was the worst thing we could do. The argument AGAINST a mass claim, as I understood it at the time, was that it would cause the town to be divided, where each side would want to only pursue scum that threatens its faction. My proposal was that in order to help create a united town, we agree to not focus on eliminating one scum team too quickly. The reason this is important is because when we eliminate one scum team, ALL OF THE TOWN THAT OPPOSE THAT FACTION LEAVE THE GAME. So, the scenario that my suggestion was trying to avoid was:
LYNCH LE SCUM
NK LG TOWN
NK LG TOWN
LYNCH LE SCUM
NK LG TOWN
NK LG TOWN
LYNCH LE SCUM
9 CG TOWN WIN AND LEAVE THE GAME
3 REMAINING LG TOWN AUTO LOSE TO 3 CE SCUM.

In order to keep that from happening, we would want to agree as a team to trade off which faction had highest priority based on which had more living memebers.

I'm pretty sure I explained this before in the last thread too. If you still don't get it, I'm not sure what else to say. If you think it's scummy, I dunno what to say other than "I don't".

[Norman]

Idk. He's agreeing with everything I say, and he's voting for the Pine guy. He might be a rainbow wizard of neutral alignment for all I'm aware of.

LOL. Everybody that agrees with you is town. Everybody that doesn't is scum. What was that about bullshit reasons?

First of all I have yet to hear from the other players, because they might be scumbags as well. Secondly, I had positioned myself on an easy vote, the scumbags could've easily still voted for me while trying to be one with the town. Thirdly I have several other suspicions that I might want to add later to my FoS list. And lastly, I'd like you to shutup now because I don't like being criticized about my FoS lists.

[Norman]

Why are you only concerned with questioning one person?

What's the problem if he is? Your question implies that Foxace36 focusing his questions at one player is somehow bad.

Whoa. People are talking and stuff. I had no idea this thread was back up.

I don't have time right now, but I'll
a) Reread the original thread
b) Read this new thread
c) Reread the original thread again
d) Make a post
tomorrow night, when I have a spare moment.

Did you feel compelled to detail this for some reason?

This is a fantastic question.

Sorry. This is my real question to LMP

You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?

How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

What do you think of RT's response to Feysal saying that scum would be insane not to claim the opposite alignment:

"This 100%. A RC kind of defeats the purpose of itself in some aspects. But we also don't know if there's an even number of LE & CE and CG & LG. Or if the total LE + CG = LG + CE. So I suppose some information could certainly be ascertained."

I catch scum on word choice all the time. By far one of my top scum tells is finding scum that appear to be crafting their thoughts to conform/appease the town. Also fence-sitting/wishy-washy language is a big red flag for me. For a great example of these tells, see me catch CoachTravis scum on day 1 in Ghostbusters Mafia, in large part due to the way he used language in that game (see my ISO 1 where I show his backtracking from the use of the word "constant" was scummy and his fence-sitting/wishy-washy language toward Scott Brosius). I'm sure there are plenty of other examples of this in my wiki.

As for the quote, I'm not sure I follow the argument of whether or not LE + CG = LG + CE, since the game seemed intentionally designed to have PRECISELY that balance. I'm not sure what "some" information he suggests could be ascertained, but I don't think it outweighs the serious dangers that Feysal correctly identified.

Vote: Myself
Reason: Everyone surprisingly hates me.

This should convince the doubters.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Just so I have you correctly, when he sees his own wagon building, as displayed in a vote count, he immediately hops his vote to the only other viable wagon, and you think suspecting him for that is DISTASTEFUL!? As I see it, that is one of the best arguments for Norman-scum.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Why? This only worked with the mass alignment claim and it's already been proven to be a bad idea.

VOTE: VOTE: Norman

Continually spouting nonsense, as well as having over 1/3 of the total posts in this thread which is making it hard to catch up.

Call it a policy lynch if you want, but his large number of posts seems scummy to me as it's hindering scumhunting.

But Zdenek finds my reasons "distasteful". My mind = blown.

Also not a fan of MOI's "scum wouldn't act this way" argument for Norman. No idea why "aggressive" is a town tell. Scum can easily be aggressive, especially in multiball. And stupidity as a town tell is also so full of fail it's not funny. Do you want a list of shotty-scum games that he got busted for being stupid? Cause I can definitely provide that. Start with the ghostbusters game linked above. So stupid != town and aggressive != town.

LMP did you actually read my reverse psychology post... That was the thing that was supposed to help. But now I see it's ineffective because there's alot more people. And I'll use wishy-washy language whenever I like! And that self-vote was an add-on to the other votes and I hoped one of the people that hadn't talked would vote me with absolutely no reason. The scumbags in this game are smarter then they look...

Also have no idea why you're dragging on about this because like I last said to Pine, I wasn't even a scumbag. I mean, wtf?

[Norman]

@MoS

– Stop trying to bait suspicion. With Trekker and Norman around it’s never going to pay dividends.

Norman is not a village idiot, he's a townie.

grade-A VI moron.

Nope.

Regardless of how Town he is per my other head he’s going to be

actively helping the scum with his ‘antics’ until he’s dead.

Well I don't think so.

Mark my words …

he’ll never be scum-killed.

So if you want this string of

stupidity

I wouldn't call it stupidity, I'd call it being retarded and discreet.

to continue please feel free to not vote him.

For the record – Norman indicates he thinks scum have daytalk.

Yes I do, does anyone else?

Other head – go refresh yourself on Clash of Kings and the process by which competent Town are killed leaving VIs in endgame to screw up what should have been an easy Town Victory

Like I said I'm NOT a VI, I'm a regular townie... God I hate when people use that fucking description

. That’s a roadmap to what leaving Norman alive gets you.

How would you know? I had a game where I was left alive with a few other townies and we killed all the scumbags.

Greenknight is tingling my scum-dar. He’s keeping a generally low profile, talking around any significant thread activities, and is taking the position re: Norman I expect from scum – one that allows them to lynch him later on when mislynches are running low.

That's not going to happen. I think I can do things my own way.

Any of trekker, Haze and Skenvoy are still great votes. Mod has acknowledged that everyone received new Role PMs so there is no reason why anyone can say “Oh hai, I didn’t know this thread was open”.

Lord Mhork

– so basically Post 428 you were fluffing to look good when you said “There is scum there” since you actually didn’t have any suspects. Also – why didn’t you find the flurry on Lemon to be “odd” since it can't be considered any more 'well grounded'?

What have I learned from Norman?

That he’s a Chesskid / Shotty / Furc level VI.

I don't know those people and I'm not a VI. You really haven't learned anything from me have you? Sure I may have screwed up this time but there were other times where I succeeded.

There is no grand plan coming together. His tactics are pointless.

Do yourself a favour and look at my goddamn posts. I hate this head really much.

Go through his ISO and count up the following –

Number of players he accuses of being scum – Wager it is approximately 60% of the playerlist.

Number of actual commitments to positions on players being scum – You will find Zero.

Scumbags come in many different forms, shapes, and languages. And with that statement I base off having probably atleast one scumbag on the list. Your logic actually makes no sense at all.

His reads list at Post 443 doesn’t commit to actual scum-reads on anyone. FOSes and “Might be scum’ aren’t actual positions.

Maybe but it's the first day, how would I know? How would anyone know for sure?

Also Lord M – please link me to any completed game you have where scum self-voted

I self-voted myself because frst I thought my situation was hopeless. It might still be but I wouldn't honestly know. The second reason behind is that I was trying to influence other people without legitimate reason to vote me. Lemons had acted like this, so had briz. The whole plan was to get scum on the wagon and try to make them look town but when everyone had voted for me I would say what my plans were at the end of the votes. As I realized the reverse psychological effect probably isn't going to work that great because there's lots of people.

.

Zdenek gets scum-points for his stance on Norman. Like Greenknight it looks like scum keeping his position open. The fact that they were voting each other (or people claim they were – I didn’t bother re-reading) in the old thread but have a 180 change in this one is worth noting.

@Tammy

– regardless of you stubbornness to not want to vote – who are you biggest three suspects at this stage

--

Shadoweh gets her own section –

First please confirm or deny you are a Mina Alt.

To keep it brief, the amount of posts you have is not as important as when you have them. Dropping off in activity when you're under suspicion is scummy, but I've come to the conclusion that Lemon isn't really posting less so much as other people are posting way too much. I still want him to expand his suspicions, the attacks on Norman are too easy and it seems like he forgot he thought Fox was scum.

Oh, so your argument is that despite being at the top of the list ML was lurking out pressue. Let’s take a spin through the facts, shall we?

Day 1 opens March 18 at 9:51pm (note all times are my personal site time of EDT). Game rules say that prods are given every 48 hours.

You make your “ML is lurking post” on March 20 at 10:40am.

Lemon’s prior post was at March 19 at 6:09pm.

So you were pushing ML as lurking out pressure 16 hours after his last post and 36 hours after the game actually started. So before he could be even due a Prod.

No. Just no. The

spam

It's spam but it's spam that I had to use for the effect.

generated in the thread by Norman does mean someone not posting for 16 hours is lurking out pressure. At the point you made your accusations Lemon would not have been due a prod if he had not posted since the game started.

Your “he was lurking out pressure based on when he posted” holds ZERO water. You are scum who got caught with her hand in the cookie jar making a scummy argument and is doing everything you can to extricate yourself.

VOTE: Shadoweh

Die, scum, die!!!

Why do we have hydras in this game if they don't atleast agree on something? It's actually making me more confused about what they appear to be then ever.

[Norman]

Pardon if I may be slightly annoying, but why are we not voting for Pine now?