Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote: Tammy

[CooLDoG]

He still seems scummy. The possibility of a jester worries me, however.

The possibility of a jester in this game is so close to zero that it is in fact zero.

Barbarian - Must not be Lawful
Bard - Must not be Lawful
Cleric - May be of any alignment (Although technically must be within one alignment step of their deity, but ignore that here)
Commoner - May be of any alignment
Druid - Must contain one element of Neutral
Fighter - May be of any alignment
Paladin - Must be Lawful Good
Ranger - May be of any alignment
Rogue - May be of any alignment
Sorcerer - May be of any alignment
Wizard - May be of any alignment

One of these has to be the jester then. Which is very very unlikely. Hell, the mod might even confirm that there isn't a jester.

@norman, omgusing half the player list is a hindrance to the town, especially when you have very few reasons for any of your votes.

[CooLDoG]

last line should be, very few reasons if any. Sense I am including trekker and the like in your group.

[Lord Mhork]

Lord Mhork

– so basically Post 428 you were fluffing to look good when you said “There is scum there” since you actually didn’t have any suspects. Also – why didn’t you find the flurry on Lemon to be “odd” since it can't be considered any more 'well grounded'?

I wasn't fluffing to look good, though. I was simply stating a possibility that worried me, because the wagon was gathering awfully fast for my liking. And was there a flurry on Lemon? It's really hard to keep track when I keep coming back to 3+ pages every afternoon... >_>

Are you saying that you found this flurry odd?

---

Also Lord M – please link me to any completed game you have where scum self-voted.

Well, I self-voted as scum. Shadoweh can attest to that. There's no reason for town to self-vote, though. It doesn't help with anything.

---

Well I must say that MaguaofIllusion, at least the rude head, is bothering me. I can't tell, though, if its scummy or just mean...

I will, however, hop on the CooLDoG wagon, as I agree that his play is appearing scummy to me as well.

UNVOTE: kondi2424

VOTE: CooLDoG

[Tammy]

MoI, want a voting alliance in this game?

Buddying with MoI.

I do. More on this later.
{/quote]

This is Avox wanting us to mass claim after it was obvious had be read the thread that it is terrible idea. It shows that he wasn't reading the thread or seriously considering the repercussions of the plan - which shows that at best he was just interested in getting a post up.

[quoite="AVox"]
Holy shit MoS is in this game. Voting alliance?

Buddying with MoS

So all in all, I see only positives coming from it and those trying to suggest otherwise are fearmongering or don't understand the reasons properly.

Trying to paint people who don't want to mass claim as scummy by accusing them of fear-mongering.

Vote AVox

Hmmm...interesting. He also asked Skenvoy to have his babies. Is he buddying with Skenvoy as well?

AV is voting for RT at this point, is he really buddying? MoI was voting for Shadoweh in the post you quoted that he responded to...is that buddying? MoS wasn't voting for anyone at that point...is that buddying?

I agree that the fearmongering quote was bad. It's one of the things I don't like about Avox.

Hey, you know what I just realized. You have a propensity for OMGUS. You think you're oh so spheshial because you tell people when they're scummy. I think that bloated BS. You've accused him of buddying with two people for comments that actually don't quite fit in with the rest of his comments in the original thread now that I've re-read him. He seems quite dead serious about his RT vote.

But, you know what? His very last comment in that thread was a reason to you for why greenknight's vote on you was valid. In his very last comment, he called you a "legitimately scummy player."

I find it very very interesting that in not only your last comment in the original thread you OMGUS'd a vote to greenknight for voting you, your very first vote and post in the new incarnation was about AVox with a vote on him after this response, and well now your vote's on me. I think you've surpassed Norman in turning OMGUS into an artform. You see, he does it openly. You try to veil it like the scum you are.

Oh MoI - I said that AV was 3rd on my scum reads earlier. I retract that now. I've had chance to re-read him in the original thread. I still don't like his position nor do I like his attitude or the fact that he hasn't shown up, but obnoxious doesn't mean scum and I want to see what he has to offer. I like some of what he says, and am really hating the two that are on his wagon.

[Tammy]

Damn you MoI. I read 22 and practically squealed with glee at finding scum on page 1. But you pointed it out before I could

Scummy for buddying with MoI.

Heh, I like Norman. He makes me chuckle.

Also, I think that wagon on him very well could have a scum, for a lot of people seemed to repeat the same points against him.

@kondi:
I'm not a fan of your #88 or your #91. Have an upvote!

UNVOTE: Shadoweh

VOTE: kondi2424

Soft defense of Norman.
Suggesting that there is scum on the wagon without saying who, but giving a terrible reason for thinking that people are scummy - that they are repeating arguments.

Alright, then, LM. Who have you seen that is a potential partner?

For you or for Norman?

This is an unnecessarily cagey response, and considering that you'd recently quoted him, it should be clear what he was referring to,

I think LordMh is going after an easy target in Kondi, and that he's not really paying attention to the reasons that he's voting him.

The people, at this point, most worried about identifying who is lawful and who is chaotic are the respective scum factions.

We can look back and find who is scummy for wanting in later.

Why postpone it, if you think that it will be useful?

1. How is this buddying? You see to me this looks like seedy and pointless contribution. You're attempting to appear active by sniping from the sidelines. Too bad you don't really have anything of value to say. Maybe if you interacted with Pine, you could get a better read on them and determine whether or not they're attempting to buddy. But, that would mean you'd have to ask pointless questions.

2. As Mhork said later he was actually defending him. But I think it's real cute how you have such a propensity to mischaracterize what people do and say. Guess who do that the most? Scum. Also, as he said, how was he supposed to tell you who was scum. Not everyone has partners, Zdenek. Also, are you seriously suggesting that parroting is not a legitimate scum tell? Because scum often tend to parrot (repeat) what others say to substantiate their own claims.

3. Is Kondi and easy target? Or are you buddying?

4. Asking a pointless question in order to appear like you are contributing and interacting with a lot of people.

[Zdenek]

At this point, I'd be I happy lynching Tammy just so that I don't have to read her fucking posts anymore.

[Tammy]

And how am I not paying attention to the reasons I voted for him?! Gah! Elaborate if you're going to make accusations like that, yeah?

I think it's pretty obvious.

I haven't seen any potential partners for Norman as of this point. Therefore, my vote is staying on ML.

PEdit: People should stop posting

Heh, I like Norman. He makes me chuckle.

Also, I think that wagon on him very well could have a scum, for a lot of people seemed to repeat the same points against him.

@kondi:
I'm not a fan of your #88 or your #91. Have an upvote!

UNVOTE: Shadoweh

VOTE: kondi2424

Alright, then, LM. Who have you seen that is a potential partner?

Alright, then, LM. Who have you seen that is a potential partner?

For you or for Norman?

Nope, I'm actually the godfather.

So, anyone believe in the scum subconsciously want to tell you that they're scum, scum-tell?

I'm pretty sure that I've seen it work, but I don't have stats on it's success rate.

I can see where MaguaIll is coming from regarding Shadow1psc's play being similar to his play in AFFC, but I wouldn't wnt to lynh Shadow1psc because of this meta arguement.

My other scum read right now is Zdenek. His voting reasons don't feel right. Bringing up voting alliances is just something people do here, it's not indicative of alignment. His points on Mhork I disagree with, people babbling the same thing five times is a good reason to suspect a wagon of being scummy.

AVox's buddying isn't the only reason that I'm voting him, and while it's true that suggesting an alliance isn't scummy, buddying can be. Someone disagreeing with you is not a scumtell. I do not think that someone who over reacts as town is unlikely to do it as scum, I don't agree with your meta argument that he's town at all. Finally, I disagree with your take on wagons for a couple of reasons, scum are reasonably likely to try to stay off of wagons early on day one and to avoid being accused of sheeping scum will also often try to avoid it.

Just a quick check-in to correct a mistake. I messed up the quotes trying to trim down my post. I'm not actually voting AurorusVox.

unvote

You should.

1. Good one. It's obvious. Way to not actually say what you're thinking but expect someone else to know what you're thinking. That's such a more efficient and town-centered play style than asking questions in order to have a conversation. What have I been thinking all this time? Why hasn't someone pointed out my inadequacies before now? I think I'll just go re-evaluate my whole existence now.

2. Actually when I read this I laughed. Because I in the past, as scum, have openly joked about the fact that I was scum and that I wasn't bussing who I wasn't bussing at the time. It doesn't really mean anything though. I've done it as town too, and seen lots of people joke about being scum when they weren't. Don't really think you can read anything into it, but it's a nice shot, especially if you're stretching to make someone look bad.

I think it's very good of you to not want to lynch someone because of meta. I, myself, try to stay away from meta as much as possible. It's one of the reasons the site I come from regularly employs alts. But *sigh* the fact that meta was already used against you and you defended against the meta in the original thread...it kind of feels disingenuous.

3. I'm confused. You say that suggesting an alliance isn't scummy but buddying can be. What I read in re-reading Avox was him suggesting a voting alliance, which you've just stated isn't scummy. You've interpreted it as buddying, but can you point out anything more than AV suggesting a voting alliance, which you've stated isn't scummy, to show that he's buddying?

I'd also like to you to explain your logic on the wagons. You say that scum will avoid getting on wagons early? *shakes head in mass confusion* What? Are you serious? Is that really what happens here at this site? I'm lost at your attempts at logic because it's my experience that it's the complete opposite, especially if there's an easy target around. It's a very few scum who won't jump into a wagon or come up with a perfectly reasonable reason to vote somewhere just to have a vote out to avoid the great mafia fundies who ridicule people who hold onto their vote. Not jumping into a wagon makes them stand out, which is what most FM do not want. Your logic is flawed. Day one is the easiest day for them to get on a wagon early if they want to because they can easily make up some crap reason to be there.

4. Why should I vote AVox? Because you say so? Give me a better reason than OMGUS. Give me a better reason than the crap you provided. Eh...I like my vote right where it is.

[Norman]

Ok... So far it's just been discussional dissent. I don't even know if Cooldog is a scumbag anymore, I mean there's always two sides of the accusations. One side doesn't want to lynch Cooldog, the other side does.

If I can just figure out what side isn't bullshitting... But it's hard to tell without the day ending and actions are submitted to the mod. If only it were Day 2...

And if I'm town what does that make Cooldog and the rest of the people voting for him?

Unvote: Cooldog.

I don't know anymore... I should've used the reverse psychology tactic on Day 2 but it's too late for that. There has to be some way to sort everyone out without having to lynch them...

[Tammy]

So Shadow – you are wary of the wagon on Norman because he’s a non-scum hunting troll and those people are lynched for being themselves but you think the entire wagon is Town? Then why were you still voting Foxace since he was on the wagon when you posted this?

You might also note that I've called Foxace town on multiple occasions. I was waiting for some substance from people that haven't posted/posted much since the restart. I got what I wanted though, so let me read back into the original thread one more time, there was something that struck me wrong.

Did you find the thing that struck you as wrong?

Yes, my case against Cooldog was elaborated on. Mostly his questions page 1 and 2 which seemed like misdirection, about town sizes, and then the general lack of participation re: people voting him/lobbying suspicion at him.

You answered this last night and I got distracted. I've had a generally good impression of CoolDog as I've read through the thread, but I'll re-read him with your thoughts in mind.

[Tammy]

VOTE: Norman

Continually spouting nonsense, as well as having over 1/3 of the total posts in this thread which is making it hard to catch up.

Call it a policy lynch if you want, but his large number of posts seems scummy to me as it's hindering scumhunting.

And you've been scumhunting....when?

[Tammy]

Pine's still scum.
Shadow1psc is still passive, still don't like.
Wouldn't mind AV or Haze dying.

But Norman's town.

UNVOTE: Norman
VOTE: Pine

Is this based on meta?

[Tammy]

Pardon if I may be slightly annoying, but why are we not voting for Pine now?

What are your reasons for wanting to lynch Pine?

[Norman]

Pardon if I may be slightly annoying, but why are we not voting for Pine now?

What are your reasons for wanting to lynch Pine?

My reasons for lynching Pine was purely out of suspicion and reads. And also his recent word choices ring scumbag. If he isn't a scumbag, I wouldn't care less because he really isn't playing the game.

[kondi2424]

Hey Norman is trekker playing the game?

[Tammy]

Can we just lynch Trekker then? Please? I can only stand so much stupidity before I go on a rampage the sight of which will scar most players for the rest of their days.

Don't tempt me.

[Zdenek]

Hmmm...interesting. He also asked Skenvoy to have his babies. Is he buddying with Skenvoy as well?

Yes.

AV is voting for RT at this point, is he really buddying? MoI was voting for Shadoweh in the post you quoted that he responded to...is that buddying? MoS wasn't voting for anyone at that point...is that buddying?

I think so. Frankly because of his absence it's impossible to tell if he was serious or not.

Hey, you know what I just realized. You have a propensity for OMGUS. You think you're oh so spheshial because you tell people when they're scummy. I think that bloated BS. You've accused him of buddying with two people for comments that actually don't quite fit in with the rest of his comments in the original thread now that I've re-read him. He seems quite dead serious about his RT vote.

I have no clue what you are trying to get at talking about how serious AVox might have been about his RT vote.

As far as this OMGUS business goes, I am not voting people because they are voting me or have said that they think I am scummy.

You see, he does it openly. You try to veil it like the scum you are.

I find this accusation disingenuous since two of the people who I've voted are people who you have said that you find scummy - AVox and GreenKnight.

1. How is this buddying?

Complementing someone's scum hunting is buddying and buddying with MoI has proven to be an effective scum-tell.

Maybe if you interacted with Pine, you could get a better read on them and determine whether or not they're attempting to buddy. But, that would mean you'd have to ask pointless questions.

Pine has to red the thread and comment on what he thinks is important. That is how I will get a read on him, and I'll ask him questions if necessary.

2. As Mhork said later he was actually defending him

I'm not a mind reader. Mhork didn't say, "I think Norman is town" or anything of the sort. That would have been clearly defending him.

Also, are you seriously suggesting that parroting is not a legitimate scum tell?

I don't think that parroting is a scum tell.

3. Is Kondi and easy target? Or are you buddying?

At the time, with LMP pushing the wagon, he was an easy target.

4. Asking a pointless question in order to appear like you are contributing and interacting with a lot of people.

tt wasn't a pointless question. If someone says, hey I've got a way to hunt scum, but let's not do it yet, they should say why they want to postpone doing it.

1. Good one. It's obvious.

I thought that it was obvious, and I think that if someone comments on a post as short as Kondi's 88, and is then asked about it, he should be able to respond.

I think it's very good of you to not want to lynch someone because of meta. I, myself, try to stay away from meta as much as possible. It's one of the reasons the site I come from regularly employs alts. But *sigh* the fact that meta was already used against you and you defended against the meta in the original thread...it kind of feels disingenuous.

I don't have a problem with Meta arguments in general, but I do have problem with some of them them.

I'm confused. You say that suggesting an alliance isn't scummy but buddying can be. What I read in re-reading Avox was him suggesting a voting alliance, which you've just stated isn't scummy. You've interpreted it as buddying, but can you point out anything more than AV suggesting a voting alliance, which you've stated isn't scummy, to show that he's buddying?

This is the question of whether or not he was serious about that alliance. If he was serious about it, then it's not buddying and it's not scummy. If he wasn't then it could have been buddying.

You say that scum will avoid getting on wagons early? *shakes head in mass confusion* What? Are you serious? Is that really what happens here at this site?

Yes. I am serious and it happens.

Why should I vote AVox? Because you say so?

Fake contributions to discussion that show he didn't read the thread before speaking and the blanket accusation of people who didn't want to mass-claim of fear mongering.

[Tammy]

Pardon if I may be slightly annoying, but why are we not voting for Pine now?

What are your reasons for wanting to lynch Pine?

My reasons for lynching Pine was purely out of suspicion and reads. And also his recent word choices ring scumbag. If he isn't a scumbag, I wouldn't care less because he really isn't playing the game.

How are his word choices any different than trekker's which I'm to take you have a good opinion of?

[Norman]

Pardon if I may be slightly annoying, but why are we not voting for Pine now?

What are your reasons for wanting to lynch Pine?

My reasons for lynching Pine was purely out of suspicion and reads. And also his recent word choices ring scumbag. If he isn't a scumbag, I wouldn't care less because he really isn't playing the game.

How are his word choices any different than trekker's which I'm to take you have a good opinion of?

To be honest, I'm not sure of trekker. All he did was support my lynch targets... Whether he has a mind of his own or being consulted by scumbags to band with the paranoid guy (me), I really don't know what alignment he is. He's the exact form of me in this game except more silent... But Pine cursed out Foxace when pretty much a decent amount of people had voted for him. However I don't want to lynch anyone without knowing who is who, and until then I'll fence-sit.

[Norman]

Hey Norman is trekker playing the game?

Trekker is playing the game because he's voting for people. Why would you want to ask that, kondi?

[trekker]

CoolDoG, LynchMePls, Shadoweh. one scum team.
Pine, two others. second scum team.

looking for more connections.

[Mastermind of Sin]

CooLDoG flip flopped on and off of Norman.

Going forward norman will become a really easy lynch for both scum teams to push. Right now I see norman as one of the most pro-active players in the game who is trying to scum hunt. I might be a little biased towards favoring the VI because I was treated like that before (and to a certain extend still to this day), but norman does not have the characteristics of being scum. And nobody as brought a good case against him. Lemon seems to be the main pusher of this policy lynch happy mob.

ITT Norman is going to soft-claim and backtrack on every possible role in the hopes of outing Town Powerroles!!!

Good Times!

Can we have lynch time now please?

yes.
Norman, I'm going to vote you because it is day 1.

vote:norman

and because I want to.
@green, read better. Like seriously, make sure that what you are saying is true before you post it.
@lord mhork, read his sig please.

I've also had a gut feeling on him since the beginning. He seems to be repeating what has already been said, also.
MoS: He's done absolutely nothing of any help whatsoever. No matter how little time you have, you can at least get in one post with content in it today.
Shadoweh: Seems a little pushy on me still, but that's understandable, due to cognitive bias. Seems to be trying to scumhunt sincerely.
Tammy: Her scumhunting looks good.
VOTE: CooLDoG
Back to my first scum read I suppose.

I spent my allotment for the day skimming the game.

[Norman]

I have a question, MoS, are you just idling around just for fun, or is it for a greater purpose?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Neither?

[Norman]

Neither?

What does 8 x 7 = ?