Mini 1320--Redwall Mafia: Spirit Lore (The Sun Has Set)

[hiplop]

junpei that is entirely possible

i have lots of apathy directed towards this game, im trying to fight it.

I feel newman is town, honestly? Just unorthodox...or something. Something just feels real there

[Riceballtail]

The misconception is likely to be seen by both town and scum, but scum are more likely to use it as a means to lynch, like this Newman wagon.

[vijay2vasandani]

@Z - I was under the impression that most old games were lost due to the site crash. I can link you to off site games if you want.

@VJ - Simply because my reasoning is not sufficient to you, that does not mean that it is any less valid to me. Also, I am nt misrepping you. You say I haven't provided a sufficient reason? I say that I have.

Also, I haven't voted yet because I do not have a sufficient read on anyone to think they are scum.

Oh okay. In that case I think your reasoning is insufficient, so I'll keep my vote on you. And the same applies to the other votes on you. If you think saying "oh it's enough for me, sucks if it isn't enough for you" is good enough, don't bitch about being voted for.

Could someone give a succinct case on Newman?

His unfounded alarm on placing somebody at L-2 by page three is scummy because it stinks of either scum trying to defend his scumbuddy or defend a townie to gain towncred.

The fact that you are so adamant about someone being at L-2 is the problem. As I have already said, people are going to get wagoned D1, thats the way D1 works, it is a fundamental fact, and you condemning it so vigorously makes you look like scum.

P. edit: at this point you are my #2 scumread.

Pappums.. why is saying that people reaching L-2 in the first few pages of a game is bad more likely to come from scum than town? I expect reasoning from both the "scum motive" and the "not town motive" side of things.

I know this is to Pappum, but really Junpei? As if you didn't know what they were.

I am not trying to make myself look better. I am giving my opinion, nothing more. You seem to be the one making a supreme court case out of it.

Why is reaching L-2 on page 3 bad again?

Weren't you just defending him a few posts ago? Decided your buddy was too much of a liability and decided to bus him did you?

I like 120. A lot.

To RBT: read 120. Also, so what if you do get targeted for having a different playstyle? That's a different point altogether. Whether or not it is true, Newman failed to address the points raised against him, choosing instead to complain about the discrimination between playstyles (whether true or not).

Last note: Newman, what I've been asking is 122 all along. I KNOW you think L-2 by page 3 is bad. But I'm asking WHY is it bad? Saying "I think it is bad" is not a reason.

[Junpei]

Weren't you just defending him a few posts ago?

I defend no one. I investigate the truth of statements, regardless of who is saying them and who they are directed at (with caution toward reaction tests of course).

I didn't think pappums knew, the way he worded his post in 117 gave me the impression that he did not and was making up a reason to lynch someone.

My post 122 is not on the verge of condemning Newman by any means, and your commentary on it is nothing more than unprecedented speculation. If you read my posts without the assumption that Newman is scum, you'll see calculated investigation.

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Fifth

Zdenek (1): riceballtail
bv310 (2): Junpei, Ghostlin
pappums rat (1): PeregrineV
PeregrineV (1): Zdenek
HellloooNewman (3): vijay2vasandani, pappums rat, bv310
Junpei (1): hiplop
Not Voting (1): HellloooNewman

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 5:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Tuesday, April 3.

riceballtail is V/LA through Sunday.

Prodding Ghostlin.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

[Junpei]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Thanks for the useless post which confirms that you aren't closely reading the game at all.

[pappums rat]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

RTFT kthxbai

[pappums rat]

If you cbf to do so, I guess I can sum it up with post 120:

Because people who are familiar with MS.net know that large non-lynching wagons spring up on D1. They know that these not-so-serious wagons will die down once discussion has run it's course. Considering that Newman has a year of experience here at MS.net, he knows that this is likely the case here as well. Experienced scum has motivation to come to the "aid" of someone on one of these kinds of wagons because it could make them look better and more protown. Experienced town has no reason to try to make themselves look better.

[vijay2vasandani]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Really? I just answered Junpei's question about a succinct case on Newman in the middle of 127.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Thanks for the useless post which confirms that you aren't closely reading the game at all.

Oh, but I am.

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

RTFT kthxbai

If you cbf to do so, I guess I can sum it up with post 120:

Because people who are familiar with MS.net know that large non-lynching wagons spring up on D1. They know that these not-so-serious wagons will die down once discussion has run it's course. Considering that Newman has a year of experience here at MS.net, he knows that this is likely the case here as well. Experienced scum has motivation to come to the "aid" of someone on one of these kinds of wagons because it could make them look better and more protown. Experienced town has no reason to try to make themselves look better.

I won't go for the obvious, but Newman can only look protown for defusing the BV wagon if BV flips town. Since we don't really know that (except you seem to), how does Newman gain any protown points for "defusing" the wagon?

[PeregrineV]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Really? I just answered Junpei's question about a succinct case on Newman in the middle of 127.

Yes, you are saying that if BV is scum, then Newman is his scumbuddy trying to protect him, and if BV is town, then Newman is scum trying to look townie.
So what would town Newman do if he didn't want the day to end early?

And I don't really care if you answer the questions out loud, since my point is that the arguments are not enough to convince me to vote for Newman.

[Junpei]

PeregrineV, don't act like you noticed his succinct case all this time but just didn't accept it; you asked for something that I specifically asked for not long ago at all and are now trying to pretend like you knew I had asked.

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV, don't act like you noticed his succinct case all this time but just didn't accept it; you asked for something that I specifically asked for not long ago at all and are now trying to pretend like you knew I had asked.

Well, I was hoping there was something I missed. Otherwise, I am seeing that three people are voting Newman because he didn't want someone at L-2.

Does that sum up vijay2vasandani's case?
Does that sum up pappums rat's case?
Does that sum up bv310's case?

And I did see where people have expanded on it when they did. And I addressed those in my posts above.

And since you are not voting Newman, do you agree with the case(s) on him?

[Junpei]

You haven't read the thread PeregrineV.

Into the scumlist you go.

Your offense: Not scumhunting.

bv310 needs rope though so you get to fight another day.

[Zdenek]

THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!

No, it's not. Your's is that we're nly five pages in so no one should be at L-2. Mine is that were are only 5 pages in so he can read the thread himself.

Pappums.. why is saying that people reaching L-2 in the first few pages of a game is bad more likely to come from scum than town? I expect reasoning from both the "scum motive" and the "not town motive" side of things.

Defending Newman regarding Newman's belief that people should not be at L-2 early.

I am not trying to make myself look better. I am giving my opinion, nothing more. You seem to be the one making a supreme court case out of it.

Why is reaching L-2 on page 3 bad again?

Now, questioning Newman.

What we've got here is Junpei attacking Pappums' attack on Newman as though Newman's play is not indicative of scum, which means that should be able to understand Newman'spoint of view, but then turning around and questioning Newman on it. So either the question is disingenuous or his argument against Pappum's argument is.

vijay pointed this out too.

I can easily attest to the presence and prejudice of many players here for not being able to be read like a book because of a different communication/play style. This makes me feel that the wagon is craptastic and powered by Scumfuel.

Except that the argument against Newman is not a playstyle argument. There is possibly scum intent in his actions. If Newman can produce evidence that this something that he usually thinks when an early wagon pops up, then that is a partial defense for his behaviour.

I'm still waiting for that, by the way.

So why is this common misconception (odd playstyles/opinions are suspicious) more likely to be made by scum than town?

Junpei's questions make it seem like he is just trying to cause trouble.

I defend no one. I investigate the truth of statements, regardless of who is saying them and who they are directed at (with caution toward reaction tests of course).

BS. When you question someone's attacks on another person, you are implicitly defending that person, but even if you want to contend that you weren't, I still don't buy that you're honestly questioning both Pappum's and Newman.

The fact that Junpei is still voting BV310 for what appears to be changing an RVS vote to from something that is potentially serious to a joke vote, while thinking that PeregrineV is openly lying about having read the thread makes little sense to me.

Unvote
Vote Junpei

[Junpei]

First: My vote on bv310 is extremely serious and is one which I will lynch on.

Second: I am simply questioning both sides. There is no switch in ones mind that should go "newman is right or newman is wrong", rather there should be one that goes "newman is town, newman is scum" and "newman is right, newman is wrong", and etc for all people in all situations. The switches don't all have to be switched, and while I'm having trouble switching the one regarding alignment too hard, I am determined to get a good grip on the one regarding the veracity of his statements as well as those of PeregrineV. This is because I need to find scum and anything in their arguments which I deem viable to do so is interesting to me, but I don't view their arguments as initially viable all the time, so I question them directly.

[Junpei]

To clarify: There should be no switch in ones' mind which assumes correlation between veracity of some person Xs' arguments and Xs' alignment. Furthermore one should not assume that just because in some argument X vs Y if X is inconsistent, that Y is thus consistent. That false dichotomy will get you no where fast.

[vijay2vasandani]

Still think Newman wagon is bad. What's the case on him again, since he has three voters?

Still eyeballing Junpei and the Rat.

Really? I just answered Junpei's question about a succinct case on Newman in the middle of 127.

Yes, you are saying that if BV is scum, then Newman is his scumbuddy trying to protect him, and if BV is town, then Newman is scum trying to look townie.
So what would town Newman do if he didn't want the day to end early?

And I don't really care if you answer the questions out loud, since my point is that the arguments are not enough to convince me to vote for Newman.

Two things.
First: he would fucking say he doesnt like L-2 because he was afraid of a quicklynch.
Second: he wouldn't be afraid of L-2 causing the day early because like Pappum's Rat says, here in MS we build bandwagons as pressure. After spending a year on site he should know that by now. His fear of a quicklynch is unfounded.

On the off-chance a quicklynch does occur a townie would be ecstatic because there is no town intent for one thus it is a chance to catch scum.

Thus there is no town intent for being scared about L-2.

[Riceballtail]

I can easily attest to the presence and prejudice of many players here for not being able to be read like a book because of a different communication/play style. This makes me feel that the wagon is craptastic and powered by Scumfuel.

Except that the argument against Newman is not a playstyle argument. There is possibly scum intent in his actions. If Newman can produce evidence that this something that he usually thinks when an early wagon pops up, then that is a partial defense for his behaviour.

Someone didn't read everything I posted.

Also, Junpei has given a fairly clear idea of his desire for a BV lynch. If you were reading the thread, you could have seen that too.

So instead of trying to be productive and use everything you are just cutting to parts to make yourself look better and "question" things that were answered in previous posts. I will not partake of this product and/or service.

Lynch this scumbag.

[Zdenek]

Someone didn't read everything I posted.

Yes, I did. What's your point?

Also, Junpei has given a fairly clear idea of his desire for a BV lynch. If you were reading the thread, you could have seen that too.

I wasn't arguing that he didn't have a clear desire for a BV lynch. I was arguing that his desire for a BV lynch didn't seem justified considering his reasons.

[Riceballtail]

Not scumhunting isn't a legit reason to lynch? Something scum have no interest in doing is cool? Saying you've read things, when you're writing things that imply that you haven't?

You've really got to swing.

[DarthYoshi]

Prodding bv310.

Ghostlin has not picked up his prod. Initiating search for a replacement.

[DarthYoshi]

quadz08 replaces Ghostlin, effective immediately.