Open 379: JK9++ (Game Over)

[Phillammon]

I'll be honest, it looks like it's just a recruitment problem now, given even the lynchee seems to agree with the current policy.

[Lord Mhork]

Huh, reading back over the last few days reminds me why I had an original town read on kondi in the first place.

VOTE: Maruchan

Take that, scum!

[Maruchan]

Man I LOVE how little you explain your reads!

(end sarcasm)

Now can we get some explanations please? A nice lil case on why you think I am scummy, and since you see kondi as town, rebuttals to everything I have said about him (Pointedly, the past 2 things I pointed out today that were rather important?)

[kondi2424]

Man I LOVE how you still haven't pointed out why I scumslipped!

(end sarcasm)

Keep an argument going or back down.

[Maruchan]

Man I LOVE how you still haven't pointed out why I scumslipped!

(end sarcasm)

Keep an argument going or back down.

I don't know you're scum. If you're town, scum would learn your role.

This is a shit line for anything related to the person you are trying to lynch.

If you aren't sure someone is scum, you don't push for a lynch LESS THAN 24 HOURS INTO THE DAY. That is STUPID. You let the game progress, gather more information, and discuss shit while building up a more incriminating case to solidify you're read.


Now, if we were 24 hours from DEADLINE, this reasoning wouldn't be shit. But because we still have plentiful time left, you should not be trying to push an 80% read.


THAT is why you're reasoning is shit.

Now explain why it's shit.

You're being purposefully vague,

MAYBE ALMOST BUT NOT QUITE SURE

-scumbag.

FTFY.

Don't call someone a scumbag if you don't think 99% they are a scumbag, sir scumbag.

Yeah fuck that BS. You know how I play, and you know that pushing at any point in the game is okay. Pushing moves the game along.

Fuck today is a possible LyLo.

Phil, if I get lynched, you ARE going to kill Maru. Period. The mysterious third killing source that isn't scum or Phil should not shoot tonight, regardless of whether it's a Vig or an SK.

I explained how you scumslipped, and kept up the argument.

Your last comment was "THATS ME AND YOU KNOW THATS ME!" followd by "PHIL BETTER VIG YOU AFTER I'M LYNCHED OR ELSE". I didn't feel that deigned a response to me.

When you re-join this argument with less ATE bullshit, and more logic, I will happily continue to pwn you in it. You're whole "when I get lynched" attitude makes it appear as if YOU have given up the fight.

[kondi2424]

Yeah fuck that BS. You know how I play, and you know that pushing at any point in the game is okay. Pushing moves the game along.

No response yet.

[Lord Mhork]

Like I said yesterday, you were rushing that lynch. It seemed extremely opportunistic to me--scummy even. As well, you were determined that you could not possibly be scum this game, as you were scum last game and the roles were rerandomized. And this:

Phil is confirmed killing PR TML.
Do not mix the two up. He could just as well be a SK, so until we have an SK flip/Vig flip we have to assume that Phil has a 50/50 chance of being EITHER.

As for the quote from yesterday I mentioned:
Kondi, if I was a scum read of yours, and quite a strong one, why could ONLY Fennin die yesterday? Why weren't you OK with a Maru-Lynch?

I'll tell you why, as scum, you knew Fennin was town. You also knew Maruchan was uber-pushing for a Fennin Lynch, so you figured you could go along wit h the Fennin-known-town-to-you lynch then frame Maruchan the next day and go SEE HOW BAD HE WANTED FENNIN GONE?!?!?!? as a reason to get me lynched. Nice scum-play sir. Nice scum-play. But you tipped your hand by not wanting me lynched yesterday.


On that note, why would scum push uber-hard for a lynch on someone they KNOW would flip townie? Are you guys really this stupid? How is uber-pushing a SCUM tell? Scum HATE attention, and uber-pushing then receiving town-flip is ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION. You guys need to go learn what moves are scum-moves and what moves are idiot-moves.

is not an adequate explanation. At best, you're town using WIFOM to try to convince the town you're townie. At worst, you're scum attempting the same. I find it hard to believe that any townie would say "Hey! I was attracting attention!" as proof they're innocent. Your Appeal to Emotion, via "U all R so stupid!" is noted as well. Tell me, have you never seen scum sit in the spotlight all game? I have. Attention is not a town-tell like you're trying to pass it off as.

Now, your case on kondi is his 'scum-slip'? This one?

3. Getting a wagon on you would just mean another claim, and we don't really WANT scum to know everyone's roles.

Scumslip.

If I claimed, scum wouldn't know any townie's roles by your hypothesizing.

VOTE: kondi

I frequently find myself looking at each of my scum suspects as though they are both town and scum. That percentage is likely some number kondi pulled out of the air to try and illustrate that he thinks you're scum, but isn't entirely sure. Also, I've never been 100% certain on any lynch I've ever been on. One shows certainty so that their hunch will be followed. You're allowed uncertainty in this game--if anything, kondi's uncertainty is closer to a town tell.

I don't know you're scum. If you're town, scum would learn your role.

This is a shit line for anything related to the person you are trying to lynch.

If you aren't sure someone is scum, you don't push for a lynch LESS THAN 24 HOURS INTO THE DAY. That is STUPID. You let the game progress, gather more information, and discuss shit while building up a more incriminating case to solidify you're read.


Now, if we were 24 hours from DEADLINE, this reasoning wouldn't be shit. But because we still have plentiful time left, you should not be trying to push an 80% read.


THAT is why you're reasoning is shit.

Would you rather people just sit back and wait for reads to develop 'naturally'? That's scummy thinking. If an 80% read is the strongest you have, you pursue it. That's the way reads grow and are formed. The more I look at your posts, the more I feel like you're really just overdefensive scum determined to throw mud on your accuser through a manufactured scum-slip.

I still don't like your high-and-mighty attitude, either. You look far too absorbed in yourself to be playing on the town's team, in my humble opinion.

PEdit:
Perhaps, Maruchan, you could explain if you think kondi is scum for any reasons other that this 'scumslip,' yeah?

PPEdit:

Yeah fuck that BS. You know how I play, and you know that pushing at any point in the game is okay. Pushing moves the game along.

QFT

[Maruchan]

As well, you were determined that you could not possibly be scum this game, as you were scum last game and the roles were rerandomized.

I was? Where did I try to push a theory to prove my townieness by way of scummieness last game?

I never did this.

I merely stated once I wasn't the same role as last game. I never tried to force anyone to believe it, nor tried to force it as a proof of my townieness. You seem to be misinterpreting things in order to suite your own agenda.

Attention is not a town-tell like you're trying to pass it off as.

I wasn't trying to pass it off as a town tell. Please say where I was saying it was a town-tell? I was saying it should be a NULL tell, yet this site generally takes most attention-getters as scum tells, which is uberly stupid. But thats a debate for MD, not for now. Again, you are misinterpreting my actions to suite your own agenda. I never once tried to use that post you quoted to say "HEY LOOK ITS A TOWN TEL LI MTOWN" I said "HEY LOOK ITS NOT A SCUM TELL"

A=/=B

Also, I've never been 100% certain on any lynch I've ever been on. One shows certainty so that their hunch will be followed. You're allowed uncertainty in this game--if anything, kondi's uncertainty is closer to a town tell.

1. I have never been 100% sure on anything either. Notice how if you ISO me and type ctrl+F then 100%, it gets no results? THats because I said NINETY NINE. Of course there is always margin for error that I am wrong. Unless it is a normal game, and I am a cop, and there are no millers, and I get a guilty. Then I am 100%.
2. Uncertainty is not a town-TELL. A tell is something that is EXTREMELY hard to fake and makes you near certain of an alignment. Uncertainty can be faked. It IS however a townie-points action, and could be used to further an already established town-read. (at least in my book thats what I take tells as. Something that makes me believe without a doubt someone is something)

Would you rather people just sit back and wait for reads to develop 'naturally'? That's scummy thinking. If an 80% read is the strongest you have, you pursue it. That's the way reads grow and are formed. The more I look at your posts, the more I feel like you're really just overdefensive scum determined to throw mud on your accuser through a manufactured scum-slip.

PLEASE take off your MaruIsScum-colored glasses and READ MY POSTS?!?!? I didn't say to not PURSUE reads, I said don't try to actively string up an early-day lynch on an uncertain read. God you need to go back and actually start READING my posts and quit skimming. your sentence is exactly correct. Pursuing reads is how they grow and are formed. You ask questions, you make comments, you DON'T try to string up an early-day lynch, with half of the game AWOL, with plenty of time till deadline, on an UNCERTAIN read.
The more I look at your posts the more I think you just don't know how to comprehend and understand the difference between words in the English Language.

I still don't like your high-and-mighty attitude, either.

WTF "high0and-mighty attitude" would you be referring to? I wasn't aware I had one, what makes you think I do?

Perhaps, Maruchan, you could explain if you think kondi is scum for any reasons other that this 'scumslip,' yeah?

Sure yeah, when you go back and A: read the game, and B: address the other clear-as-day points I made DURING DAY TWO ALONE against kondi. I'll give you permission to not re-read Day one. But go back and read all of day two, and find the kondi-related comment I made that you seem to have missed (since you only skim my posts with your "MaruIsScum Colored Glasses" on)

[kondi2424]

hey maru answer me

[Maruchan]

My post above addresses your "point" well enough to not need to re-hash it.

Go read.

[kondi2424]

Your post doesn't address my point at all.

[Maruchan]

PLEASE take off your MaruIsScum-colored glasses and READ MY POSTS?!?!? I didn't say to not PURSUE reads, I said don't try to actively string up an early-day lynch on an uncertain read. God you need to go back and actually start READING my posts and quit skimming. your sentence is exactly correct. Pursuing reads is how they grow and are formed. You ask questions, you make comments, you DON'T try to string up an early-day lynch, with half of the game AWOL, with plenty of time till deadline, on an UNCERTAIN read.

Yes. It does.

Next time, actually read.

[kondi2424]

And I was "actively stringing up an early-day lynch" where?

[Maruchan]

Hey Maru you're stretching it. I wanted Fennin lynched ASAP because 1. He was fucking scummy, 2. He was useless, and 3. Getting a wagon on you would just mean another claim, and we don't really WANT scum to know everyone's roles.

VOTE: Maruchan

By the way, Phil is most definitely a legit Vig.

No questions for me. No discussion. Just a vote on me.

This implies intent to lynch, not Want to Get more Info, if you wanted more info about me, you'd have started up a discussion about something with me, or asked me something, or pointed out something you wanted me to address

[Maruchan]

ACTIVITY

If a player fails to post for 72 hours, I will prod them by Private Message. If they fail to post in the 48 hours following their prod, they will be replaced. If you know of any upcoming times you will be unable to post, please post an announcement in the thread. I’d prefer you didn’t PM me; otherwise, the other players won’t know of your absence. I’ll excuse any absence of a week or shorter, but if it’s longer than a week, I will most likely replace you.

Skeletor needs to be prodded.

Lowell and Chimera just need to start posting more.

[Chimera]

Bleah...it's such a pain to catch up on stuff.

Thoughts on D-2 so far.

415: Good start by skel....and then 417 happened and we haven't seen him since. Not going to make a judgement on him with so few posts but as Lowell said 417 was absolute crap.

420: The first bit rubs me the wrong way...I don't like the "Even if I'm a bad guy you shouldn't kill me" speech...especially being relatively unwarranted. If there were considerations of him being SK being actively discussed, sure, this isn't a bad thing to say. I don't deny a (relatively) town-directed kill is useful, but the timing of this was just wrong.

422: Third paragraph is pretty solid, imho. Along the same line of thought, wtf is this? Earlier kondi named TML and Maru as his top scumreads, and his post just before that hypoclaim was his vig vote which had both Maru and TML on it...ergo Maru was still a scumread. I may be missing something but I fail to see the logic behind hypoclaiming as hiding behind someone you believe to be scum.

428: Because any vig worth their salt would realize there could be two vigs. Interesting...

433: Yeah, like Maru said #3 is just wrong.

434: I already said this about this post but for the sake of completeness...what the zark?

453: Kondi brings in the 1v1...AtE there.

454: First sentence = pot calling the kettle black.

455: And here's the defense Maru wanted. Go back to 453; basically daring Maru to continue pushing the lynch. Maru then says he doesn't want to 1v1. Which makes no sense. In the same post as denying the 1v1 he calls kondi scum again...and yet, if kondi is scum and we lynch him with the intent to 1v1...Phil would have to be a complete fool to carry out the 1v1 if kondi flips scum.


And then mhork gets back and on come the big posts. And I haven't the time right now to finish.

[Maruchan]

Along the same line of thought, wtf is this?

That is honestly neitehr a town nor scum tell.

I hid behind a relatively low-level scumspect of mine. You do that so that if you die, they lynch scum. Its understandable imho as scum or town to use a scumread as a hider target in the hypoclaim.

[Chevre]

Vote Count 2-3

(3) kondi2424 (Maruchan, The Mini-Librarian, Phillammon)
(2) Maruchan (kondi2424, Lord Mhork)

(4) Not Voting (Chimera, Kurtis, Lowell, Skeletor)

With

9

players alive, it takes

5

votes to lynch.
The deadline for Day 2 is

13 April 2012 @ 11:10pm U.S. Central Standard Time

.

Prodding Skeletor.

[Lowell]

@mod-

still only getting the first 7 or 8 posts from each page, even though I'm back on my home computer. no idea what the problem is. I'd like to wait it out a few more days and hope somehow functionality returns, but up to you. Can't very well participate much as is.

[Maruchan]

PMed Lowell concerning his problem with a work-around I found and posted in thread, since he couldn't see the post I made.

Not game-related but I figured I'd let the mod know.

[Lord Mhork]

As well, you were determined that you could not possibly be scum this game, as you were scum last game and the roles were rerandomized.

I was? Where did I try to push a theory to prove my townieness by way of scummieness last game?

I never did this.

I merely stated once I wasn't the same role as last game. I never tried to force anyone to believe it, nor tried to force it as a proof of my townieness. You seem to be misinterpreting things in order to suite your own agenda.

I was merely referring to to this combination of posts.

Vote: Mini Librarian

For trying to fuckin bus me after the MARUCHGAN-IS-SCUM faction was actually starting to die DOWN.

(PS: Chevre said we could oust our old roles. and I am decidedly much less happy about my new, non-scum role. >:( )

Hello! I am new, and who *am* I replacing? Also, have roles been re-randomized? And you claim not to be scum now, I see? Sounds like scum talk to me!

Yes roles were re-randomized, or I would never have claimed I was scum in the last throw of the dice.

It looks as though you're exceptionally eager to point out that, while you were scum last game, you aren't this game. It's very possible you were doing this so that we would ignore the possibility of you being mafia.

Attention is not a town-tell like you're trying to pass it off as.

I wasn't trying to pass it off as a town tell. Please say where I was saying it was a town-tell? I was saying it should be a NULL tell, yet this site generally takes most attention-getters as scum tells, which is uberly stupid. But thats a debate for MD, not for now. Again, you are misinterpreting my actions to suite your own agenda. I never once tried to use that post you quoted to say "HEY LOOK ITS A TOWN TEL LI MTOWN" I said "HEY LOOK ITS NOT A SCUM TELL"

A=/=B

...the heck? Since when to people consider attention a scum tell? Anyway, I meant this

On that note, why would scum push uber-hard for a lynch on someone they KNOW would flip townie? Are you guys really this stupid? How is uber-pushing a SCUM tell? Scum HATE attention, and uber-pushing then receiving town-flip is ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION. You guys need to go learn what moves are scum-moves and what moves are idiot-moves.

You were pushing rather hard for a fennin lynch at the end of the day, yet he flipped town. You were clearly using this argument, i.e. no scum in their right mind would push uber hard for a town lynch, as an argument for why you weren't scum by your actions. This is untrue, for some scum will push hard, using this argument to try to prove their townliness.

Also, I've never been 100% certain on any lynch I've ever been on. One shows certainty so that their hunch will be followed. You're allowed uncertainty in this game--if anything, kondi's uncertainty is closer to a town tell.

1. I have never been 100% sure on anything either. Notice how if you ISO me and type ctrl+F then 100%, it gets no results? THats because I said NINETY NINE. Of course there is always margin for error that I am wrong. Unless it is a normal game, and I am a cop, and there are no millers, and I get a guilty. Then I am 100%.
2. Uncertainty is not a town-TELL. A tell is something that is EXTREMELY hard to fake and makes you near certain of an alignment. Uncertainty can be faked. It IS however a townie-points action, and could be used to further an already established town-read. (at least in my book thats what I take tells as. Something that makes me believe without a doubt someone is something)

Well I suppose it's true that kondi's confusion and uncertainty could be faked, yet I find that

Hey Maru you're stretching it. I wanted Fennin lynched ASAP because 1. He was fucking scummy, 2. He was useless, and 3. Getting a wagon on you would just mean another claim, and we don't really WANT scum to know everyone's roles.

VOTE: Maruchan

By the way, Phil is most definitely a legit Vig.

I don't know you're scum. If you're town, scum would learn your role.

About 80%.

look pretty genuine to me. I really don't like the way you answered the question either. Most of your response was on a tangent that had nothing to do with my point. It appears to me that you were trying to evade the brunt of my question to move the argument into a region you were better suited for, i.e. yourself and mafia theory.

Would you rather people just sit back and wait for reads to develop 'naturally'? That's scummy thinking. If an 80% read is the strongest you have, you pursue it. That's the way reads grow and are formed. The more I look at your posts, the more I feel like you're really just overdefensive scum determined to throw mud on your accuser through a manufactured scum-slip.

PLEASE take off your MaruIsScum-colored glasses and READ MY POSTS?!?!? I didn't say to not PURSUE reads, I said don't try to actively string up an early-day lynch on an uncertain read. God you need to go back and actually start READING my posts and quit skimming. your sentence is exactly correct. Pursuing reads is how they grow and are formed. You ask questions, you make comments, you DON'T try to string up an early-day lynch, with half of the game AWOL, with plenty of time till deadline, on an UNCERTAIN read.
The more I look at your posts the more I think you just don't know how to comprehend and understand the difference between words in the English Language.

Now that's just rude.

First off, I love that you immediately take the role of the victim here. 'Oh, you are so cruel to me! Try reading the game without

assuming

I'm scum, why don't you?' Hah!

Secondly, I cannot stand your argument. We shouldn't try to string up uncertain reads with half the town AWOL? Of course not! However

Hey Maru you're stretching it. I wanted Fennin lynched ASAP because 1. He was fucking scummy, 2. He was useless, and 3. Getting a wagon on you would just mean another claim, and we don't really WANT scum to know everyone's roles.

VOTE: Maruchan

By the way, Phil is most definitely a legit Vig.

How on earth is this someone trying to string up a suspect. He's voting you and explaining his push for a fennin lynch, which you've already argued was not scummy in itself. Obviously you panicked when you read this. In fact, I fail to even see the scum slip! This

is not

the push of someone trying to lynch.

Finally, fabulous insult at the end there. It was completely necessary to the argument and does not look in the least like a scummy Appeal to Emotion. Just sayin'...

I still don't like your high-and-mighty attitude, either.

WTF "high0and-mighty attitude" would you be referring to? I wasn't aware I had one, what makes you think I do?

Like I've been saying, you aren't sounding like a team player at all from your posts. Just to show a couple

[quote="In post 201I am

not

ok with ending today yet, though. We have more than two weeks on the clock, and I want to hear from

everyone

. I may even change my mind about a Phillammon lynch. Not likely, but possible. We need more discussion before we end today, yeah?

This is near the same thing Malee said once, and here is my response:

You want more discussion? Anything in particular? Do you have questions/comments that still need to be made? If so then make them! And everyone else do the same. I can't think of anything else right this second that needs to be said or addressed, and if nobody esle can, then waiting just because we have the time to stagnates the game and makes everybody get worn out.

I will gladly spend more time discussing and playing, if you give me something to discuss or answer or question. But based on the content we already have there is nothing.


However, yes I too want to wait for the lynch until every player has posted a decent post about the game.[/quote]

Such as?

The two thigns I saw:
Mod QUestion
VIg Vote COunt

1st, I already addressed, second if you fucking want it, go fucking count and post it. Lets not all fight to see who can sit on the couch waiting the longest for someone else to do it?

You're a bit late on content.

It's really hard to capture the tone that sets me off, but these are a few of the posts that did it for me. Well, this post as well, I guess.

Perhaps, Maruchan, you could explain if you think kondi is scum for any reasons other that this 'scumslip,' yeah?

Sure yeah, when you go back and A: read the game, and B: address the other clear-as-day points I made DURING DAY TWO ALONE against kondi. I'll give you permission to not re-read Day one. But go back and read all of day two, and find the kondi-related comment I made that you seem to have missed (since you only skim my posts with your "MaruIsScum Colored Glasses" on)

Oh, you do?

Thank you!

Explain to me again, you can pretend I'm a moron if it makes you feel better, the scumslips that prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that kondi is scum. And I have read the game, pal, your condescension is unneeded.

[Phillammon]

<unvote>Kondi</vote>
I'm being too hasty. I'll keep up with the arguements, but I currently have little to offer beyond "what he said" on some of these posts.

[Lord Mhork]

Wrong format, Phillammon.

[Phillammon]

I mean, <unvote>Kondi</unvote> Thanks.

[kondi2424]

lololol