D.N. Does Star Wars (Town Victory)

Slandaar · Post Post #250 (ISO) » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:46 pm

Magna just calls you scum whatever you say to fit as was said a preconceived idea that I am scum/wc/kdub

Thats the similar feelings

Slandaar · Post Post #251 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:02 am

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:The scum-tell of ‘showing up
only
when called out while being active elsewhere on site’ applies right here.

OK I can explain this better now

Magna is saying im scum for only posting when called upon when previous to this I had clearly shown proactiveness and not needed to be 'called on' there is no reason not to believe my version of events based on my previous actions unless you are tunneling mega hard and just dont want to... from someone who is supposed to be so logical this is illogical. Like literally he doesnt want to believe my version because he thinks he can force the lynch through it makes too much sense from scum. He pushed this for pages and pages...

Then we get his other suspects feeling the same way about him... Is it coincidence? no. Does Magna always tunnel so hard on people? <- genuine question, I dont know the answer.

Magna is also trying to influence who is blastered without actually directing it as such.

I think I still prefer SD lynch

But really Magnascum seems very possible...

brizingre1 · Post Post #252 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:29 am

Still catching up, about to finish the thread before the clash took place, scum reads so far:
Malee
WrathChild
Slandaar
Will post in more depth when I've fully caught up, should be able to finish reading by this evening.

Nero Cain · Post Post #253 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:50 am

Ima have a post up after I get home.

vote:Elmo

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #254 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:02 pm

Kdub wrote:Well he was still in the game at that point and it wasn't clear that he was going to be replaced, so there was still a chance to pressure him and get answers, but since he's been replaced now, you are correct.

This fails to explain why you haven’t done any questioning of Wrath, who you were calling scum, while parking your vote on Fennin. Wrath was here and he had plenty of content in the prior thread to question / attack.

--

Anxiety wrote:hi, replacing cdb, anything important in the archive I should keep in mind?

Just read it yourself. It’s not that long and that will keep your insights untainted.

--

Wrath wrote:I provided a lot of insights and comments and now that the game crashed again for two weeks you all should be thankful that I posted something like that and save you a shit load of time going back through the nightmare archives... again... to get caught up. Now you can scum hunt with out wasting so much archive time. Your welcome. It will be my legacy when I die.

What is this? We should be thankful that you put together your summaries? Firstly summaries like that do nothing for scum-hunting. You are giving very, very limited comments that don’t show the actual context and wording originally found in the archive. Secondly the archive itself is not that hard to catch up on. Asserting that you’ve saved everyone tons of time and that you are very Pro-Town doing so isn’t true.

--

Sword wrote: Fennin (for crumbing the way he did)

When you get back you need to explain in full why you suspect Fennin for this.

--

Peregrine wrote: Unvote.
Vote: BBmolla

FoS: Midnight, WrathChild

You said you re-read. Reasons are necessary. Show them.

--

Slaandar wrote: I think I still prefer SD lynch

But really Magnascum seems very possible...

Oh, so now I’m back to being scum again. Noted.

PEW PEW PEW

SleepyKrew · Post Post #255 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:17 pm

YES YES YES
IM ALMOST HOME
AND THEN I'LL PROVIDE
*content*

Kdub · Post Post #256 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:20 pm

↑ WrathChild wrote:Now you understand how I feel. Go back and actually read my post and then read what MoI translated that to, then read my response. No matter what I do MoI is convinced I'm scum and I'm going to spend the entire day arguing with him about and get no where because he is a more powerful poster than me. I spent a lot of time reading through the archive to just have something in thread for people (primarily myself) to read through instead of going back through the archives. I don't see how that is "empty posting". I provided a lot of insights and comments and now that the game crashed again for two weeks you all should be thankful that I posted something like that and save you a shit load of time going back through the nightmare archives... again... to get caught up. Now you can scum hunt with out wasting so much archive time. Your welcome. It will be my legacy when I die.

While I do feel that MoI is being stubborn with his opinions as he is apt to do at times, I think his reasoning on you is valid. You made several long catch-up posts that had a lot of words and summary, but when distilled down to the points you were actually making, there weren't actually that many of substance. Here's a hint: nobody (at least not anyone who is town) should be reading

other players'

catch-up posts to help themselves catch up on the game. The reason should be obvious.

Nero, I would still like you to answer my earlier question to you.

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:This fails to explain why you haven%u2019t done any questioning of Wrath, who you were calling scum, while parking your vote on Fennin. Wrath was here and he had plenty of content in the prior thread to question / attack.

I didn't think there was anything of his (WC) worth responding to, whereas I was focusing on trying to get support for my stronger suspect. Like I said, my initial read on him was pre-crash, and his post-crash play has basically been nothing.

BBmolla · Post Post #257 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:28 pm

brb rereadan

brizingre1 · Post Post #258 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:30 pm

Yes you lucky people, you are priveliged to attend a live recording of my thoughts as I go through the thread. Before we start, one thing that I feel was never really explained before the old thread died was Iecerint posting this

If Fennin is lynched and flips scum, Iecerint thinks MagnaOfIllusion should be blaster'd.

Actually, Iecerint kind of thinks MagnaOfIllusion should be blaster'd regardless.

and never explaining why.

@Iecerint

Why, from what I read of the game, MoI was at least making an effort, and posting coherent arguments, not quite sure how you came to this stance?

Anyway, lets roll on, feel free to avoid this and skip to the end as it is fairly lengthy

Spoiler: A ton of awesome reads and whatnot

Summary:

Leaving 4nxi3ty, Elmo, Nexus and Kurtis/Otto's slots out due to a lack of actual posts makes a read impossible

Town

ooba
Iecerint
MoI
PereV
Slandaar
Kdub
SD
Nero Cain
MS
SleepyKrew
BBMolla's slot
Andrius
WrathChild
sword_of_omens slot

Scum

Tbh this game is unusual as in I cant see anybody as definite town yet, I still think anybody could be scum at this stage
Slandaar vs MoI reads like a town vs town fight. I'd support a lynch on:
Andrius
WC
Foxace/sword_of_omens
Fennin/BBMolla

So... as the WC lynch seems to have the best chance of happening, I'll

VOTE:WrathChild

Midnight's Sorrow · Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:56 pm

Oh hey this game is back up.

Guess I need to re-read this game at some point today or tomorrow, cause I completely blotted it from my mind for awhile there.

Slandaar · Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:18 pm

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Oh, so now I’m back to being scum again. Noted.

Let us discuss something... But please no walls.

In 9-10 days, do you find it scummy that I changed one opinion... my opinion on you?

I basically rethought a WIFOM reason, do you remember how I thought you re town? nothing to do with your arguments it was all to do with how ridiculous your tunneling of me is. The thing is I realised something, 'killed night 1'. Which I assume is true, so when you are scum you need to batter down lynches because on day 2/3 when you are not dead people will ask why you are not. Use your influence early as scum. The feelings of WC/Kdub adds to this hugely.

Now, is my tiny 1 line of meta correct and how I have interpreted it into how you would play scum reasonable?

Do you seriously think I am scum still?

Andrius · Post Post #261 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:25 pm

Ok somehow I expected to be notified when this was open again.
Anywho reading tomorrow. Sleep now.

Slandaar · Post Post #262 (ISO) » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:27 pm

↑ Andrius wrote:Ok somehow I expected to be notified when this was open again.
Anywho reading tomorrow. Sleep now.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #263 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:54 am

Since we’ve had a really erratic Day 1 thanks to the crash and otherwise I thought I would put my case on both Slaandar and WrathChild from both thread together for everyone to see.

First up – Slaandar

--

The following post from

Archive Page 3

is what first really made Slaandar hit my scum-dar:

Archive Post 70 wrote: why are you voting kise fennin?

you dont get to vote without reasons like I do.

Slaandar had been flopping his vote around with pretty much no reasoning. This post first struck me as odd for the inconsistency on two fronts –

1. The “I can do this but you can’t” standard isn’t a Town point of view IMO.
2. Slaandar was questioning Fennin in regards to this but doesn’t seem to really care about the ‘tell’ – one the same page Kurtis voted for CDB with no reason and in fact Nexus called him out on it immediately.

Next comes

Archive Post 127

–

Malee please view the activity overview

Now

If you can explain why you felt the need to make some huge town looking analysis which says very little when the game has only been out of RVS for about 3 pages that would be great.

Firstly we see Slaandar floating the “I’m active so I must be Town” sentiment that he’s been trying to pass off all game when activity isn’t anything other than a play-style tell.

Second we see the start of his attack on Malee for actively posting content which is scummy as I’ve explained before.

Archive Post 134

solidifies this stance:

I tell you what I will explain why you are prob scum then you tell me what you think;

You have just made huge town-looking walls that say literally nothing. I read them and at the end I ws like 'well that was pointless' now;
The question is why did you think it is a good idea to post such walls and so early in the game when there is so little to analyse
Probably scum looking for town cred from walls/effort
If you were town you should be able to realise how little there is to analyse and therefore realise ISOing everyone accomplishes nothing.

Now we move on to you omgusing as soon as I dont give you the towncred for your effort

as town you would not care because you didnt post for towncred
as scum you care you just put in effort for no return and so are annoyed at me -> omgus

This is not even mentioning the way your NC/Fennin/Vince reads do not align correctly

1. As discussed Malee’s posts say quite an adequate amount for a general reads set of posts on page 5/6. So that portion of the attack is poor.
2. The premise that making walls is a Town cred grab coming from scum is very poor considering his personal stance that making tons of posts is a Town tell. What this reads as is a play-style difference that he is trying to pass off as a scum-tell.
3. Note when analysing Slandaar’s play later he is trying to pass off OMGUS reaction to pressure as a scum tell. Then compare that with his own play where he attacks Shadow and myself directly once we suspect him. Cognitive Dissoance.

Next we have:

Archive Post 192 wrote:
Too many questions being directed at me not enough time to answer

I am town.

so no more suspicions need to come my way.

OK? OK!

Now let me scumhunt without being asked tons of useless questions.

He later tries to say this was directed at me but nothing in the post itself says that. Furthermore it’s further inconsistency / hypocrisy that he doesn’t want to answer questions but expects others to do so.

His very next post shows this –

Archive Post 195 wrote: Show me why you think this.

I need to see quotes and you explaining how that implies its 'because she posted content' and not 'what the content says'.

Here he immediately requests answers and quotes to prove a point.

And at

196

we have another case of OMGUS out of Slandaar in regards to Fennin – he attacks him directly for suspecting him for his bad Malee case:

Why single me the actual lead antagonist of Malee and not the many sheep who followed me fennin? am I really some scum mastermind leading town onto Malee?

you are not genuinely scumhunting are you.

I’ve already pointed out his the inconsistency in

Archive Post 190 and 192

in my

Archive Post 251

.

I think

Archive 320

post by me pretty clearly outlines another scummy move that Slandaar does rather consistently – try to turn attacks against him on others without showing how they are invalid. In this case it was my pointing out he wasn’t doing anything in follow-up.

Then at

Archive Post 325

he begins trying to spin that my attacks on him are attempts by scum to “draw attention to myself and off Malee and Fennin”. Yet attempt to frame any action taken against him as only possibly being scum motivated. I can’t be someone who thinks he’s scum … nope I’m scum who is desperately trying to get attention off other players.

And now we transition into the active thread –

I think it has already been rehashed to death my stance on his avoidance of the thread until I called him out.

Again at Post 51 we get another round of “Anyone who suspects me is scum”.

Now let’s move on to the scummiest play he’s made in the new thread – Post 102 where he floats the concept of a 1v1 me versus him. He immediately (Post 105) begins attempting to say I’m backing off my scum read on him since I didn’t move my vote to him and say “Yup, 1 v 1 you must die”. He continues on this line of thinking saying I “failed a reaction test”. The kicker is of course he didn’t vote when he proposed this 1v1 or at any time during the discussion. So his conclusion is that I’m scum for having my vote on another suspect (Wrath) and not showing my ‘commitment’ to him as scum. Yet he’s Town as him taking the same course of action was a ‘test’ of me. Cognitive Dissonance in his reasoning.

His response to another bout of Cognitive Dissonace I highlighted in Post 116.

Post 137 is his move to ‘meta’ away his suspicion of me. I’m scum who tried to deflect from two partners (Malee and Fennin). I’m scum for failing his 1v1 ‘reaction test’. I’m scum for suspecting his pop-up appearance when I called him out. Yet suddenly I’m Town because I am tunneling. Reads to me as appeasement – if I stop calling MoI scum maybe he’s leave me alone and go away. Lulz, no.

Finally around Post 177 he lists WrathChild (the play under the most pressure in thread aside from himself) on his scum-team. When I ask him to show his reasoning he gives a pointless photo and says “Maybe later” to his suspicion at Post 190. That reasoning never comes despite me hammering on him to provide it. I wanted Slandaaar on record for relational tell reasoning with Wrath. Wrath just suddenly appeared on his scum list and Slan can’t provide reason for why. Yet at Post 204 he specifically refused to vote Wrath for the following reasons –

I dont want to fuel a WC lynch at this point. I want the SD lynch therefore I dont feel like posting the reasoning right now. It is nothing to do with motivation.

Um whut? He doesn’t want to wagon a scum suspect? That’s clearly not Town. He insists on non-starter singleton vote on Shadow as opposed to actually trying to hang a suspect with some momentum.

MagnaofIllusion · Post Post #264 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:10 am

Sleepy wrote:YES YES YES
IM ALMOST HOME
AND THEN I'LL PROVIDE
*content*

Failure to actually do this in your next post will result in me reaching through the Internet and giving you an Atomic Wedgie. You have been warned …

--

Kdub wrote:I didn't think there was anything of his (WC) worth responding to, whereas I was focusing on trying to get support for my stronger suspect. Like I said, my initial read on him was pre-crash, and his post-crash play has basically been nothing.

And that’s my point. Pretty much all of his posts pre-crash are there for you to scum-hunt from. And in looking at the Archive your read there wasn’t based on any direct interactions either, IMO. I'm not seeing any effort on your part to actually push a Wrath wagon at any point. Or even explain your read. Your vote has pretty much been affixed to Fennin for the long term.

Plus you still have “Blastergate” at the front of my mind.

--

briz wrote:I'd support a lynch on:
Andrius

Now that you have caught up you need to actually explain this read.

--

Slandaar wrote:Let us discuss something... But please no walls.

Nope. Learn to live with long and detailed responses. Forums Mafia is a game of written words. Dislike that I actually use them? Not my problem.

Slandaar wrote:In 9-10 days, do you find it scummy that I changed one opinion... my opinion on you?

I think my case just posted should answer this for you.

Slandaar wrote:I basically rethought a WIFOM reason, do you remember how I thought you re town? nothing to do with your arguments it was all to do with how ridiculous your tunneling of me is. The thing is I realised something, 'killed night 1'. Which I assume is true, so when you are scum you need to batter down lynches because on day 2/3 when you are not dead people will ask why you are not. Use your influence early as scum. The feelings of WC/Kdub adds to this hugely.

Yup, keep trying to handwave away my suspicion on you as ridiculous. That always works so well when dealing with me.

And this is a scummy line of thinking on your self-admitted WIFOM.

1. I have a title “Killed Night 1”
2. Your conclusion from this is that my relentless scum-hunting comes from scum because I want to push through lynches before I’m not dead and people question it.

Yup, that’s moronic. I certainly as Town wouldn’t be looking to find and hang scum before my usual early demise in an attempt to help my Wincon. Nope, that’s not reasonable at all.

Slandaar wrote:
Do you seriously think I am scum still?

Derp. Of course

4nxi3ty · Post Post #265 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:19 am

MoI wrote:Just read it yourself. It’s not that long and that will keep your insights untainted.

the question was geared more towards figuring out what others wanted me to focus on than me wanting advice( though the advice you gave is sound)

only up to pg.4 in the archive, scumvibes from Andrius.

Skimmed through the pages in this thread. Not seeing any scum motivation in either Wraithchlid or Slandaar's play.

Slandaar · Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:38 am

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Yup, keep trying to handwave away my suspicion on you as ridiculous. That always works so well when dealing with me.

And this is a scummy line of thinking on your self-admitted WIFOM.

1. I have a title “Killed Night 1”
2. Your conclusion from this is that my relentless scum-hunting comes from scum because I want to push through lynches before I’m not dead and people question it.

Yup, that’s moronic. I certainly as Town wouldn’t be looking to find and hang scum before my usual early demise in an attempt to help my Wincon. Nope, that’s not reasonable at all.

I thought you were town because you were pressing too hard which didnt seem to make sense from scum... your title actually explains why you would do this as scum. So I started thinking about my previous read.

You still have not dropped the lurking argument. This shows you are pushing too hard and do not care on the answers I give you.

WC and Kdub saying the exact same things really backs up this point of you pushing too hard. I know I am town, I know this is the feeling I am getting, they share this therefore it seems correct that the scum in this jigsaw is you.

Do you see how my read on you and how it has changed would be nearly impossible to fake? it changes with new information, do you see that? do you think im scum who can replicate this kind of flowingness to my reads?

Slandaar · Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:40 am

also I might respond to your case and we can get into wot wars again

But I hope to figure you out on this one thing.

Slandaar · Post Post #268 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:47 am

also where is SD magna?

Nexus · Post Post #269 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:06 am

I actually don't know why I haven't been replaced in this game.

I will read the thread and post some thoughts soon. I promise.

Sorry.

SleepyKrew · Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:14 am

UNVOTE:

DeathNote · Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:31 pm

~I am back and will prod players who haven't posted yet. More then likely people are just unaware that the game has been restarted again.~

brizingre1 · Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:06 pm

Now that you have caught up you need to actually explain this read.

He doesn't seem to be making much of an effort to actually scumhunt, seems to be kind of lurking on the sidelines poking at people, pointing out fairly obvious stuff or just taking the piss out of people.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3924115
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3924140

WrathChild · Post Post #273 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:32 am

brizingre1 wrote:
Now that you have caught up you need to actually explain this read.

He doesn't seem to be making much of an effort to actually scumhunt, seems to be kind of lurking on the sidelines poking at people, pointing out fairly obvious stuff or just taking the piss out of people.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3924115
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3924140

Don't worry, MoI says Andy is obv-town, so just trust him or he'll call you scum 500 times.

Slandaar · Post Post #274 (ISO) » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:33 am

↑ DeathNote wrote:
More then likely people are just unaware that the game has been restarted again.~

WHAT? HOW CAN THIS BE???? MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!!!!