Mini 1320--Redwall Mafia: Spirit Lore (The Sun Has Set)

[PeregrineV]

No time tonight. Maybe tomorrow after work.

[Korlash]

Korlash – Ridiculous amounts of postings. He’s just as useless and unreadable as hiplop, for exactly the opposite reason. It’s a whole bunch of data, and almost zero information. Not to mention, I don’t understand how he can post a million things, and still not know basic information (yes, in fact, Newman was asked to present his meta) that relates directly to his cases / opinions. As I mentioned before, I don’t believe than town-BV would have placed a vote on Newman when he did, due to how weak the reasoning behind that wagon is. Scumread, and anti-town at the very best. Excellent lynch candidate.

Yup, that's me in a nutshell.

So your reasons for voting me are my predecessor was part of a wagon your predecessor was part of, and I miss tiny details that I specifically ask people to tell me. Cool. Have at it sir. I'm looking forward to seeing this warrior you speak of because you'll need it to lynch me. I'm like a cat, can't put me down without a fight. rowl!

Rinse your mouth out now!

lolololol, only speaking the truth here sir.

Post 231 reeks of scum not wanting to really be on the wagon, but having been on it to look like he was pushing it. Either knowing it was a mislynch or that he wanted to look like he put pressure on his partner.

... Why? how? What is this... Do you mean Z is scum voting his partner Quad? I honestly have no idea what you mean with this...

Korlash, I regress, Peregrine and I have shared two games. However both games were

Cool, I'll look into those when I have some time. I do sadly feel people play small games and large games differently so I don't expect to get much out of them.

And right now, I feel pretty strongly that Korlash, hiplop, or Vijay need to be the lynch today.

You have a lot to say about who to lynch, but very little about who is scum. Can you take a shot at responding to the things I posted in regard to Ghost?

[DarthYoshi]

Day One, Vote Count the Ninth

Zdenek (1): riceballtail
iStark (1): vijay2vasandani
Junpei (2): PeregrineV, hiplop
PeregrineV (2): pappums rat, Junpei
pappums rat (1): Korlash
Korlash (1): quadz08
quadz08 (1): Zdenek
Not Voting (1): iStark

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 3:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Friday, April 6.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

[Junpei]

Cool, I'll look into those when I have some time. I do sadly feel people play small games and large games differently so I don't expect to get much out of them.

Peoples' scumhunting philosophies don't change.

Please vote Peregrine, time is of the essence.

[Korlash]

Naw mate, don't worry about me. You should know I'm active enough I'll be here four-hundred times still before deadline. =D

For now though, work time! Then food time, followed by pants time, nap time, and research time!

Then

... vote time...

[iStark]

/confirming.
I'll try but I doubt I'll be dome reading this thread in 72 hours *points at long posts*

Can anyone sum-up current situation?

[quadz08]

Korlash is too misled and committed to be scum I think. Why do you think that the RBT vote by V2V was serious again? Hiplop is a good policy lynch and vigbait yes, but I would rather not policy lynch.

Explain why you don't like my Peregrine case?

1 - Remind me how, exactly, misled is a towntell? Committed I can buy, I suppose, but not misled.
2 - Ok. His vote was placed in response to a serious vote, agreeing with the reasoning of said serious vote.
3 - Lemme look... your Peregrine case is solid. I'm not convinced, but he's on the watchlist.

So your reasons for voting me are my predecessor was part of a wagon your predecessor was part of, and I miss tiny details that I specifically ask people to tell me.

Eh... nice try at the misrep but no.

Corlash, your predecessor is BV310. BV is a good player, who knows better than to jump on a weak wagon like Newman's as a town player. The only motivation bv has for that in this game is to try to build it into a mislynch. My predecessor, on the other hand, was Ghostlin, who was

not on the wagon

. Good try, though!

Oh, and as to your second point? When you argue against people, making "Why would this person do Action X, when no one asked him for Action X," the crux of your argument, him

actually having been asked

to do Action X is not a "tiny detail." And with the amount of detail and time you clearly take making each post, I simply don't believe you just missed it. You looked at the age/likely quality of the players in the game and said "I can get away with this."

Please, don't pretend that your word vomit is actually legitimate content. Yeah, there might be a few bits in there, but simply spewing out every word you can think of? Not good for town. Period. Not scummy by its nature, but definitely anti-town, and combined with my previous point on leaving out important bits of information, I think that you're using it in a scummy way.



iStark:

There was a big wagon on Newman (your predecessor). He had complained about someone being L-2 on Page 3, so people jumped on him. The discussion has mostly stemmed from that, and people's responses to the Newman wagon.

[quadz08]

Oh, shoot. *Korlash. Sorry!

[Junpei]

I think misled is a towntell because scum would probably have listened to me and concurred. It sounds weaker when I put it like that.. hm. What I'm trying to express is that this seemed to me like genuine town who is wrapped in his initial beliefs; as opposed to scum who can't really be misled because they don't truly believe what they are saying.

Although now that I recount, I remember that Korlashs' initial beliefs were from a town perspective (pre-role PM) and a reason he could be entrenched in them is because it's the only thing he knows to be from a town perspective.

I also forgot that Korlash was BV's successor, who was scummy alone. But when I look at Korlashs' posts I see lots of fallacies and misconceptions that are close to being truth, but a little off, and I can understand where he got mixed up. I've only seen one scum play so ferociously like this, I'll think about it some more.

My Peregrine case concludes that he isn't scumhunting... if it is solid then I think a vote is in order quadz08?

[quadz08]

I said solid, not the number one option. My vote stays on Korlash until deadline gets closer.

[Junpei]

Okay as long as you accept my conclusion and live with the consequence of that?; you aren't Tortoise and this isn't a fictional story.

[quadz08]

I am not entirely sure of the point you are attempting to make, but I can assure you that I will do all within my power to ensure that there is a lynch today.

[quadz08]

Shoot. Correction to my previous post: Ghostlin was actually on BV's wagon. I ISOed the mod's votecounts, rather than Ghostlin. My apologies there. Nonetheless, my point about BV yet stands; Ghostlin was not nearly as strong or experienced a player as BV, and I don't believe that he would've been able to determine that the wagon was bad, whereas BV should have.

[Korlash]

Eh... nice try at the misrep but no.

*scratches chin* not sure how it's a misrep. Seems to be word for word what you said, just with my own perception's spin on things...

Corlash, your predecessor is BV310. BV is a good player, who knows better than to jump on a weak wagon like Newman's as a town player. The only motivation bv has for that in this game is to try to build it into a mislynch. My predecessor, on the other hand, was Ghostlin, who was not on the wagon. Good try, though!

Ignoring the Ghostlin part, Isn't the whole building a wagon in RVS to start the game a common theme amoung this game's players? I realize your views on Newman match my own, but you admit his own reasoning was flawed, right? So why is Newman wrong in his thinking that L-2 is bad, but BV is scum for being part of that L-2? That doesn't make sense.

Tl;Dr: Are you saying you also think an L-2 wagon that early is bad? Unless you say yes, there is certainly another reason for BV to be on that wagon which you are ignoring. (either intentionally or not)

Oh, and as to your second point? When you argue against people, making "Why would this person do Action X, when no one asked him for Action X," the crux of your argument, him actually having been asked to do Action X is not a "tiny detail." And with the amount of detail and time you clearly take making each post, I simply don't believe you just missed it. You looked at the age/likely quality of the players in the game and said "I can get away with this."

Half right, I looked at the players in the game and knew I could play the game my way. The 'crux' of my argument is that they attacked Newman without actually looking for the truth, simply pushing the lynch. All they needed to do to 'counter me' is show me where they did in fact either A) Have evidence or B) actually tried to find some. Since the join date was a minor issue that I knew some sort of evidence existed for, I attempted to force someone to point it out.

The discussion then has relatively few paths to travel. Either A) no one points it out, my point is justified entirely, my case is strengthened. Or B) One of the people I attacked points it out, thus giving me the option to ask for evidence on a more serious topic, which they can't produce. My lesser point about the joindate would be forfeight, but my overall poiint would be proven. Or C) Someone other than the people I attacked points it out (I was betting on Jun). This gives me an opening against the people I am attacking and allows me to see better into the person who stepped up to do their work for them.

Obviously I knew there existed a place where someone asked Newman the question. (I didn't actually look for it, but I assumed it had to exist since Newman wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.) I'm a relatively good player, if I may say so myself, and as such I don't feel the need to play honorably as town just because I'm one of the 'good guys'. I play to win, I play to strengthen my cases, and yes... I play dirty. =D

Tl;DR: The joindate thing wasn't a 'crux' of my argument, just a single part of it. And yes, I knew what I asked for existed. So tell me, why did YOU have to tell me? Why didn't Rat say it? Or V2V? You had to step up and fight their battles for them... Why would you have to do that if they are town? (ignore V2V since I didn't actually post his case, so just blame Rat on this one.)

Please, don't pretend that your word vomit is actually legitimate content. Yeah, there might be a few bits in there, but simply spewing out every word you can think of? Not good for town. Period. Not scummy by its nature, but definitely anti-town, and combined with my previous point on leaving out important bits of information, I think that you're using it in a scummy way.

It's a valid point on both accounts. I can't replace into games without posting a crap ton up front. I have to catch up and it take me a while to integrate into games. Sadly, I'm a very active player and will always post a lot, it's just a lot more up front since I have 8 pages of content to post all at once. And yes, I tend to use 'scum tactics' regardless of my role because I tend to win more games when I play to my strengths. sadly you're missing that I didn't 'leave out important bits' but asked someone else to present them, which they failed at, which further suggests they aren't town since town have no reason to ignore giving simple and easy answers when asked for them.

Shoot. Correction to my previous post: Ghostlin was actually on BV's wagon. I ISOed the mod's votecounts, rather than Ghostlin. My apologies there. Nonetheless, my point about BV yet stands; Ghostlin was not nearly as strong or experienced a player as BV, and I don't believe that he would've been able to determine that the wagon was bad, whereas BV should have.

And my point also stands. Unless you can tell me you disagree that an early wagon in RVS can be used to start off a game, you cannot say it was purely a scum intent to be on that wagon, given the exact 'message' it was created over. In addition, Ghost's position and actions ON the wagon are a hell of a lot scummier than anything BV did so it seems kinda weak you pushing this as the main point against me. (Please don't take that personally, if it isn't your 'main' point I apologize, but that isn't the way I see it.)

On a side note, what are you basing this 'bv is a stronger player' attitude? I always considered Ghostlin a very strong player... If not that, at least overly experienced. Do you feel that you will be able to defend this attitude? (if I may take a page out of Rat's book, just for example, their joindates would suggest the opposite of what you say.) I checked their wiki but got nothing out of it, I assume due to the crash.

[Korlash]

Okay as long as you accept my conclusion and live with the consequence of that?; you aren't Tortoise and this isn't a fictional story.

What the hell is this? "You can think what you want as long as you eventually accept my way of thinking, or suffer for it."

I realize you're an aggressive and somewhat arrogant player (which is actually a good thing in this type of game if you can play it right) but this is purely stepping over the lines mate. Unless I've drastically misunderstood you here.

[Junpei]

B) One of the people I attacked points it out, thus giving me the option to ask for evidence on a more serious topic, which they can't produce. My lesser point about the joindate would be forfeight, but my overall poiint would be proven.

1) What is the serious topic you would have followed up on?

2) What did you learn about me?

[Junpei]

I was referencing What the Tortoise Said To Achilles.

I was meaning that Quadz can act on his own convictions, as long as he accepts my conclusion that Peregrine is indeed not scumhunting (since he implied that my case [a collection of premises] was valid). If Quadz wants to pursue someone else despite this (and he does) then so be it, but I don't forget things like this.

[Korlash]

1) What is the serious topic you would have followed up on?

2) What did you learn about me?

1) lolololol I knew you were going to ask me this... You're getting predictable. An example would be Newman defending Bv as a more serious topic than the joindate/site meta one.

2) Nothing, you didn't say it, quad did. And since he is voting me, i feel his actions are skewed by it. For instance, he chastised me for asking it because I 'should know' it was here, yet failed to point out exactly where it was, who said it, or when it was said. he didn't even bother to quote it. I learned quite a bit about him over it even if i can't rely on a lot of it. Nothing substantial or anything to do with his alignment that is, just more about him as a player.

I was meaning that Quadz can act on his own convictions, as long as he accepts my conclusion that Peregrine is indeed not scumhunting (since he implied that my case [a collection of premises] was valid). If Quadz wants to pursue someone else despite this (and he does) then so be it, but I don't forget things like this.

Oh..kay... I guess. Very poetic sir... I'm more of a concrete and iron guy instead of the stained glass and paper tapestries sort. Forgive me if some of your more elusive imagery flies over my head in the future as well.

You're not implying that just because someone agrees with you they should vote with you as well, are you? I'm kinda getting that feel from it.

[Junpei]

If someone feels that someone I think is scum is also scum, I think that they should vote that person who is suspected of being scum. However if they choose not to... well I can accept that given certain circumstances.

Also I knew you'd reference Newman defending BV I counter that whole ideology of yours with a simple request: Show me evidence that you are scumhunting.

And the fact that I didn't say it should tell you something no? Think hard, Korlash, it isn't that difficult, draw a timeline and tell me what you find.

[Korlash]

Also I knew you'd reference Newman defending BV I counter that whole ideology of yours with a simple request: Show me evidence that you are scumhunting.

Sure, I'll need you to define your version of scum hunting first please sir.

And the fact that I didn't say it should tell you something no? Think hard, Korlash, it isn't that difficult, draw a timeline and tell me what you find.

That you're too smart to fall for my trap? that you don't feel the need to step up to defend others? That you disagree with me to the point that of ignoring certain things I post? I can do this all day, but none of this is as important as the actual stuff I was looking for with Rat and the person who actually answered me, Quad.

[Junpei]

Prove that you are actively searching inthread for clues as to who scum is so that you can lynch said scum.

scum are people who have mafia role PMs

There's a critical induction you could make, but forget it, it's worthless in the end.

[pappums rat]

Lets take a look at the most recent vote count shall we?

Day One, Vote Count the Ninth

Zdenek (1): riceballtail
iStark (1): vijay2vasandani
Junpei (2): PeregrineV, hiplop
PeregrineV (2): pappums rat, Junpei
pappums rat (1): Korlash
Korlash (1): quadz08
quadz08 (1): Zdenek
Not Voting (1): iStark

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

The deadline is currently set for 3:00 pm PDT (GMT-7) on Friday, April 6.

As ever, any questions or concerns, please let me know.

The two biggest wagons only have two people each on them, and we are less than two days away from deadline. We are running a serious risk of not lynching here. We need to consolidate our votes into actual wagons. Not lynching today would be unacceptable.

[Junpei]

hiplop, your vote on me is practically random. Trust my scumhunting ability if you refuse to do your own, and vote PeregrineV. We need a lynch to happen.

[Zdenek]

Riceballtail %u2013 Not the most active player, but her points are good thus far.

Which points? Considering that most of what RBT is doing is calling me scum this seems strange considering:

Zdenek %u2013 He started off scummy, but got townier as I read. Good contribution / responses by the end. Townish.

These two statements make little sense together and I think quadz is scum who's taking stances that he sees as convenient.

I'm willing to vote for peregrine, but I'd like people to comment on quadz first.

Also, I haven't read these recent posts of Junpei and Korlash carefully. I'll try to get to that tomorrow.

[quadz08]

So why is Newman wrong in his thinking that L-2 is bad, but BV is scum for being part of that L-2? That doesn't make sense.

You're oversimplifying. L-2 is not bad that early. L-2 on a wagon that is built for reasons that are

that awful

, from a player that is better than being on said awful wagon? Not town.

And... your playstyle is to deceive and not be fully truthful on a regular basis? Haaaa ok you need death. A lot.

Tl;DR: The joindate thing wasn't a 'crux' of my argument, just a single part of it. And yes, I knew what I asked for existed. So tell me, why did YOU have to tell me? Why didn't Rat say it? Or V2V? You had to step up and fight their battles for them... Why would you have to do that if they are town? (ignore V2V since I didn't actually post his case, so just blame Rat on this one.

They should have answered you, absolutely. I don't know why they didn't, so I did because I knew the answer and no one had yet answered you. More importantly, though, you shouldn't have asked if you knew already. And yes, they should have answered, but nonetheless, it's not "their" battle. It's

our

battle. Well, not yours, but you know what I mean.

BV is a stronger player, from what I've seen. To answer your question, no I don't think I've ever actually played with either of them, but I have seen them both in games. BV is better.

Pappum, that's nice and all, but uh... good job on not commenting on anything that's happened lately.

P-Edit: Just because I disagree with someone, doesn't mean they aren't making good points.