Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Rhinox]

I'm actually perfectly content to lynch Macro now, forget what I said before about being unsure.

[Fishythefish]

Yeah. I think I'm with you on that one. I don't much like Voided's recent play, but it's not enough to change my mind. Macro's play has been fine, but there's nothing there that makes me think he must be town.

VOTE: Macro

L-1 again. Macro should get his will in order, and then claim, and then get lynched.

[4nxi3ty]

... except for the fact that he has provided independent thought on several players, pushed voided's lynch(which really didn't have much support) instead of someone like funky, and he never jumped on a LS wagon to save his skin...

macro's entrance into this game has all the telltale signs of being town.

[Rhinox]

4nxi3ty, I disagree. Macro's push on voided wasn't actually that great IMO. I did not feel like macro's vote was a joke. Voided's reaction wasn't that great, but that may be a separate issue. Independant thoughts - eh scum and town replacements both do that, come in and iso the game and make a big post and everybody goes ooooh aaahhhh see that couldn't possibly come from scum. Except when it does. I'm more interested in the content of the thoughts - page by page iso, lots of "this is what happened's". Lots of unexplained YYY looks town, ZZZ looks scum. Anybody can throw that together. I'm also not a fan that Macro made an accusation towards me in #413, which I responded to, and Macro completely ignored and restated as part of a long winded wishy-washy case towards me (often those come from scum) in #430, as well as ignoring the question I asked him/her about her (I'm just going to use her until you set a gender) about her voided/vincent Pre-"joke" vote read. And its not like she's not reading my posts at all - she seemed to catch where I said I was a having doubts about lynching her, so she's clearly cherry picking what she wants to address/answer/acknowledge. As for not voting funky or LS - meh, here were the votes just after Macro's "joke vote":

Macrophage (6) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro, rhinox, 4nxi3ty, hiplop, fishythefish
funkybike1 (3) - Sleepless Assassin, Lastsurvivor, kortul
Voidedmafia (1) - Macrophage
Lastsurvivor (1) - nachomamma8
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - Alicewondering
Alicewondering (1) - funkybike1

Wouldn't even occur to me to vote LS to save myself had I replaced in in macro's position. As for not voting funky, you imply its the obvious scum move to vote funky to save herself, but if that were true scum would never do it, and then it wouldn't be a tell either way. Its a big circle of WIFOM. Its more likely that town or scum, Macro would realize it was going to take more than voting the only counterwagon to save herself. I don't consider where she dedided to push indicative of her alignment either way.

[Sleepless Assassin]

On Macro's replacing in...

There's a few ways to look at some things. The first is the amount of content. I agree with Rhinox that either scum or town can come in and post wall after wall after wall as soon as they replace in and everyone goes "OMGTOWN!" or my personal favorite "well the first guy was scummy but the replacement looks town so here's my unvote". However, if you look at quality over quantity, Macro's reads and opinions seem pretty genuine.

The other thing is the vote on Last. For pure survivalism, Rhinox is right (again) that it does no good. A vote on Bike would make the competing wagons closer. However, for purposes of looking town, you don't want to wagon hop, so having your own new opinion helps. The vote on DDD afterwards actually seems like such a blatant "lynch this guy, not me" that it's weird not to just vote Bike. To me, it's actually a sign of wanting to lynch a scum read rather than just someone with a lot of votes. The only way this doesn't make sense is if Macro and Bike are scum together, which I haven't ruled out.

Honestly, my read on Macro's slot has wavered quite a bit. Some of the play just looks incredibly scummy, but then there seems to be a town explanation that fits all of it. I currently have a slight town read on the slot. However, it's not a strong read at all.

Either way, it looks like Macro is the only player with the support for a lynch right now and it's time for him to claim.

[Lastsurvivor]

Lastsurvivor's 422 is a way bad post; he sells out for a lesser lynch than his prefered target and he gets that kind of snotty tone that I get when I'm scum and have people suspecting me for what I think are wrong reasons.

And that shouldn't be a consideration at all? It's not as if he tossed aside everything he said perviously to take an easy lynch; he simply moved within his own suspicions to a wagon that might actually flourish.

I'm sorry, were you contradicting yourself, DDD? Keep in mind that I've had every single occupant of the Malee slot on my scum list. So it's not as if I tossed aside everything I said previously to take an easy lynch; I simply moved within my own suspicions to a wagon that might actually flourish.

Also, because you have a snotty tone when you're scum, everyone who has a snotty tone must be scum? Right.

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@SA: What do you think the "town explanation" is? Personally, I'm not seeing it. I actually followed along with his catch up, and I wasn't really agreeing with a lot of the stuff he was saying. Then again, most of it is "I like player x" or "player y is weird," so I don't really have much to go on with his thought process.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Macrophage (6) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro, rhinox, hiplop, Lastsurvivor, fishythefish
funkybike1 (2) - Sleepless Assassin, kortul
Lastsurvivor (2) - nachomamma8, 4nxi3ty
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - Alicewondering, Macrophage
Alicewondering (1) - funkybike1

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 9th, 7PM PST
funkybike1 is being replaced
hiplop has been prodded

[hiplop]

Got the prod

Honestly, this day needs to end. Macro is pretty clearly scum imo

[kortul]

It seems that only 4nxi3ty and Macrophage himself are not ready to lynch Macrophage. Well, we don't know the current opinion of Nacho, and future opinion of funky replacement, and SA is doubting but doesn't really object. That's actually a lot of hate as for a day 1, which is something new for my limited experience with forum mafia games, and i am suspicious of unusual things. Still, after the new ISO on Malee and theo i came to the same conclusions as before, and Macrophage posts didn't change my opinion, so i am ready to hammer closer to deadline.

I believe it would be better to wait for the funkybike1 replacement to arrive, to hear his reads and thoughts. And Nacho promised to be back to normal self.

[Macrophage]

L-1 again. Macro should get his will in order, and then claim, and then get lynched.

No, not-VT, and no.

4nxi3ty, I disagree. Macro's push on voided wasn't actually that great IMO. I did not feel like macro's vote was a joke. Voided's reaction wasn't that great, but that may be a separate issue. Independant thoughts - eh scum and town replacements both do that, come in and iso the game and make a big post and everybody goes ooooh aaahhhh see that couldn't possibly come from scum. Except when it does. I'm more interested in the content of the thoughts - page by page iso, lots of "this is what happened's". Lots of unexplained YYY looks town, ZZZ looks scum. Anybody can throw that together. I'm also not a fan that Macro made an accusation towards me in #413, which I responded to, and Macro completely ignored and restated as part of a long winded wishy-washy case towards me (often those come from scum) in #430, as well as ignoring the question I asked him/her about her (I'm just going to use her until you set a gender) about her voided/vincent Pre-"joke" vote read. And its not like she's not reading my posts at all - she seemed to catch where I said I was a having doubts about lynching her, so she's clearly cherry picking what she wants to address/answer/acknowledge. As for not voting funky or LS - meh, here were the votes just after Macro's "joke vote":

Macrophage (6) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro, rhinox, 4nxi3ty, hiplop, fishythefish
funkybike1 (3) - Sleepless Assassin, Lastsurvivor, kortul
Voidedmafia (1) - Macrophage
Lastsurvivor (1) - nachomamma8
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1) - Alicewondering
Alicewondering (1) - funkybike1

Wouldn't even occur to me to vote LS to save myself had I replaced in in macro's position. As for not voting funky, you imply its the obvious scum move to vote funky to save herself, but if that were true scum would never do it, and then it wouldn't be a tell either way. Its a big circle of WIFOM. Its more likely that town or scum, Macro would realize it was going to take more than voting the only counterwagon to save herself. I don't consider where she dedided to push indicative of her alignment either way.

What did you think my vote was?

Why are you using unexplained reads against me when you could easily ask for explanations?

Which question did you ask?

Got the prod

Honestly, this day needs to end. Macro is pretty clearly scum imo

And you've pretty clearly lost your marbles.

[Macrophage]

Why Malee was town:

Response to Nacho in 24: The combination of lack of good reasoning for a vote while repeating what he said back at him.

Most importantly:

83 After complaining about someone else skimming, scum don't make a mistake like Malee did. It would likely make them subject to contradiction accusations from their PoV.

And I can see where Malee is coming from in 138. I agree that calling someone's post fake is a slight towntell.

Why theo was town:

Firstly, the amished tell isn't even the amished tell at all.

The big thing though, is his going from a townread on Alice to an Alice-wagon in the next post. How can any of you honestly see that coming from scum?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Fuck it.

unvote, voted DDD

Let's get this train rolling since Bike isn't getting any kind of a wagon.

[Alicewondering]

No, not-VT, and no.

Dude, you have people willing to hammer you, including me. Claim now.

[Macrophage]

It's better if I don't claim.

Alice, why do you think I'm scum?

[Voidedmafia]

Give one good reason why you shouldn't claim.

Also, explain why theo's 180 from Alice-town to Alice-scum isn't from scum. There was very little to substantiate going from a fairly solid townread right down to a solid scumread with the reasoning he went for. Like I said, it's enough to go to a null-read, but NOT enough to go to a scumread by itself, and he didn't show up again to give more.

Thirdly, DDD did use the amished tell correctly, regardless of how I feel about using it.

[Macrophage]

Give one good reason why you shouldn't claim.

It's better if I don't claim.

It's not from scum because I'm town. But also, only scum are thinking about how much their reads make sense based on what they've posted. What possible reason was there for theo as scum to do something so likely to attract attention?

I didn't think the Amished tell applied to saying your predecessor left you in a big pile of poop, because mine certainly have.

[Alicewondering]

Dude, Macro, Malee was scum for putting together a really bad case on someone, then backing off like panicked scum. Theo was scum for leaping onto easy wagons without much thought shown, and for Amished tell. You're scum for bad votes.

Even though you've already softclaimed, it's in your best interests to claim because you're on the plate for a lynch.

[Voidedmafia]

That's not a good reason why you shouldn't claim.

Also, just because it may not make sense coming from scum doesn't mean the action itself isn't scummy, Macro.

[Macrophage]

Dude, Macro, Malee was scum for putting together a really bad case on someone, then backing off like panicked scum. Theo was scum for leaping onto easy wagons without much thought shown, and for Amished tell. You're scum for bad votes.

Even though you've already softclaimed, it's in your best interests to claim because you're on the plate for a lynch.

Um, bad votes? Would I be more town if I voted myself?

And do you actually believe that the Amished tell applies and is accurate here?

I want other opinions before claiming further.

Also, just because it may not make sense coming from scum doesn't mean the action itself isn't scummy, Macro.

I think that's the definition o not scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Just because rapid read turnarounds or joke votes don't necessarily have to come from scum, doesn't mean that doing so is often anti-town at best and fairly scummy regardless. Maybe scummy was the wrong word to use there, but I still don't like theo's relatively unexplained turnaround on his Alice read.

[Fishythefish]

I'm tired, and I don't want to think about things until tomorrow.

UNVOTE:

@Macro: your will should be in order even if you don't intend to die. You can change it at any time.

[Fishythefish]

So, the way I see Macro is that everything he has done looks fine, but that's sort of unsurprising. I wouldn't expect halfway competent scum to be trying to drive an alternative lynch here - clearly Macro's only way to survive is to defuse his wagon by looking as town as possible, which makes it a hard situation to read someone. And his content is ok, but "independent thought" just isn't that hard to fake as scum, and there's nothing there that really makes me sit up and pay attention.

Not-VT claim is unacceptable. The main points of a claim is that if it is likely to get confirmed or (less so) shot at, we can leave you alive. If you have the option of making up a claim to fit the facts later, that's no good to us at all.

VOTE: Macro

This is still the right lynch. I want a full claim.

@Macro: that turnaround from theo looks bad to me because it didn't make sense. He'd called Alice the "voice of reason" in the game, and then because of one thing he found "a little strange" he turned round and voted her. I feel he's scum who'd forgotten how much he'd said Alice was town - possibly rereading only his catchup post, and not the explanation he gave me. That kind of townread just doesn't evaporate that fast.

[hiplop]

i think I see what Macro is getting at.

He's either scum or very fucking smart town, I'm not sure which though :\

[kortul]

I want other opinions before claiming further.

Softclaim isn't enough for me, and i doubt anyone will say it satisfies him/her. Fishy already explained all the main points why you should make a full claim, and i would like to add that you should do it pretty soon. If we will decide to postpone the lynch at least until day 2, the sooner you will claim, the more time we will have to come to an agreement as to the alternative lynch.

We have a little more than 3 days to the deadline, so don't waste the precious time.

[Lastsurvivor]

No, not-VT, and no.

Yeah, sorry, you need to claim. Claiming non-VT is useless because you could literally be any role. Yes, even VT (we have no idea if you're just trying to soak the NK). But honestly, claiming non-VT just affirms to me and plenty of others that you're scum.

Why are you using unexplained reads against me when you could easily ask for explanations?

How about you explain your reads yourself?

Response to Nacho in 24: The combination of lack of good reasoning for a vote while repeating what he said back at him.

Wait, how does this make her town? If I made a post called "Why Malee is scum," I would put in what you just said verbatim honestly.

83 After complaining about someone else skimming, scum don't make a mistake like Malee did. It would likely make them subject to contradiction accusations from their PoV.

That's a...broad generalization. Scum can make mistakes too.

And I can see where Malee is coming from in 138. I agree that calling someone's post fake is a slight towntell.

:/ you can't really tell me shouting "these posts look fake!!!" without any reasoning tacked on is a town tell. Anyone can do it, both town and scum alike.

The big thing though, is his going from a townread on Alice to an Alice-wagon in the next post. How can any of you honestly see that coming from scum?

The better question: How can you see that coming from town?

I certainly cannot.

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TL;DR: Macro needs to formulate a fakeclaim so someone can drop the hammer.