Mini 1320--Redwall Mafia: Spirit Lore (The Sun Has Set)

[pappums rat]

Yeah, sounds like a GF to me.

No to quadz claiming today.

Vote: Korlash

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

What made you change your mind, and what was your initial objection to quadz fullclaiming?

[Korlash]

Korlash, I dont think you have claimed your name yet, please do so.

I claimed it yesterday. I'm Abbess Germaine.

Scumpal.

To who? Me? Why would I point it out? His actions yesterday certainly read anti-town, but they didn't match up to scum's either. The only conclusion I could come up with was he was a third party of some type or he was the character I expected was looking for me as a spirit, thus didn't want me to die. Why would scum have avoided such an easy mislynch yesterday?

Mass flavor claim makes just a little sense. I thought someone said there were so many characters in this series that it'd be simple to fake a flavor claim? Besides, it could hint at peoples' roles. We are NOT doing any mode of claiming. The only one claiming is Quadz.

All right, all right. Easy... Jeeze. Just trying to help. By the way, the fact there are so many characters is what makes it so easy for me to distinguish. give a scum too many options, and it's easy to tell them apart from the others. But i get it, we've already lost a power role and caught a scum so no worries. But if I catch the scum before you lot do once they claim, I'm haunting your ass. =P

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, sounds like a GF to me.

No to quadz claiming today.

Vote: Korlash

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

What made you change your mind, and what was your initial objection to quadz fullclaiming?

It's day2, and if he full claims 1-shot, for example, then scum wont be worried.

Let them worry if he is telling the truth.

I unvoted so I can hear all and both sides. Unless you think they are both true?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

Why did you unvote? You've been acting real strange during my wagons... >.> what is up with that?

Scumpal.

Mass flavor claim makes just a little sense. I thought someone said there were so many characters in this series that it'd be simple to fake a flavor claim? Besides, it could hint at peoples' roles. We are NOT doing any mode of claiming. The only one claiming is Quadz.

So you believe quadz and disbelieve Korlash.
And if you believe quadz, why should he claim?

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

Why did you unvote? You've been acting real strange during my wagons... >.> what is up with that?

It's because he's scum, of course.

Korlash, I dont think you have claimed your name yet, please do so.

quadz has already claimed his role, he needs to fullclaim, there is no reason why he shouldnt.

Also quadz, do you stand behind your statement that we could have multiple people with similar roles?

So, you believe Quadz results

AND

you want Korlash to claim his name (why?)

AND

you want Quadz to fullclaim everything?

There is a reason he shouldn't. If you believe him, why should he, again?

[pappums rat]

I never said I believed Quadz's results.

I wanted Korlash to claim his name because it is a theme game, and people may be able to decipher his probability of being scum if they know his name (or fakeclaim if that were the case). All things considered, I find his nameclaim believable and wish I had paid more attention to it yesterday Right now I think Quadz has a better chance at being scum than Korlash.

[pappums rat]

Yeah, sounds like a GF to me.

No to quadz claiming today.

Vote: Korlash

Unvote.

Full claim would probably only be flavor, so it doesn't matter to me. It'll matter more once we have a Korlash flip.

What made you change your mind, and what was your initial objection to quadz fullclaiming?

It's day2, and if he full claims 1-shot, for example, then scum wont be worried.

Let them worry if he is telling the truth.

I unvoted so I can hear all and both sides. Unless you think they are both true?

Fuck WIFOMing the scum, we need to lynch right today. Night actions are important and all, but they shouldnt take precedence over lynching scum.

[Junpei]

Peregrine, it's not that simple. I'm covering all my bases because I agree to the first rule of debate: Accepting Your Own Fallibility.

[PeregrineV]

I never said I believed Quadz's results.

I wanted Korlash to claim his name because it is a theme game, and people may be able to decipher his probability of being scum if they know his name (or fakeclaim if that were the case). All things considered, I find his nameclaim believable and wish I had paid more attention to it yesterday Right now I think Quadz has a better chance at being scum than Korlash.

So, I-scum unvoted Korlash the town lynch as scum, why?

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

Your really are all over there with your "reads".

@Quadz- Why did you pick Korlash to investigate?

@Junpei- thats not what you said. You were voting Korlash, and said scumpal. What else did you mean?

[Junpei]

I meant that you were a scumpal with Korlash, it's mostly spontaneous talk, but I'm willing to back it up. Also stop with the "why would I..." because Korlash is dead meat, and that means that any interaction between him and his scum friends is pure wifom, they won't do any serious partnership at this stage unless they read this and decide to, and then realize I realize this... etc. It's pointless talk.

[pappums rat]

I never said I believed Quadz's results.

I wanted Korlash to claim his name because it is a theme game, and people may be able to decipher his probability of being scum if they know his name (or fakeclaim if that were the case). All things considered, I find his nameclaim believable and wish I had paid more attention to it yesterday Right now I think Quadz has a better chance at being scum than Korlash.

1.

So, I-scum unvoted Korlash the town lynch as scum, why?

2.

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

3.

Your really are all over there with your "reads".

@Quadz- Why did you pick Korlash to investigate?

@Junpei- thats not what you said. You were voting Korlash, and said scumpal. What else did you mean?

1. Way to introduce moar WIFOM, but I think you did it in an attempt to look pro-town, to try to "avoid" a quicklynch of Korlash since Junpei got his vote off him when Zde cast his vote. Besides, it's not like you couldnt just re-vote him once the wagon was on again.
2. It hasn't been counterclaimed. While Korlash would obviously deny Quadz's claims in any case, I honestly think Korlash looks better coming out of his non-lynch yesterday and the scum have plenty of reason to want him dead.
3. No I'm not. I still think you are scum and iStark is probably scum. Out of Korlash and Quadz, I would say Quadz is more likely scum at this point.

[Korlash]

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

... Well getting me mislynched while simultaneously outing the real cop sounds like a rather good days worth of work... In my humble opinion that is. Plus, he claimed 'ability cop' which is very unlikely to be countered by anything other than a 'real cop' which can easily be argued why both could exist in the same game.

Why would town-quadz have claimed at all? Seriously, what 'cop' outs himself to lynch a player

that was lynched the previous day

??!?!? It was fairly certain a wagon would form on me immediately and almost assured that I would be lynched... So why would any town reveal themselves unless it became apparent it was needed? none. No town power role would do that.

[Junpei]

True Korlash.. for some reason it sounds more pressing when you say it than when I think it.

Quadz08: Why did you bother to claim when we were likely to lynch Korlash anyway? Why did you investigate Korlash?

[PeregrineV]

And why would scum-quadz attempt soemthing that would surely be counterclaimed?

... Well getting me mislynched while simultaneously outing the real cop sounds like a rather good days worth of work... In my humble opinion that is. Plus, he claimed 'ability cop' which is very unlikely to be countered by anything other than a 'real cop' which can easily be argued why both could exist in the same game.

Why would town-quadz have claimed at all? Seriously, what 'cop' outs himself to lynch a player

that was lynched the previous day

??!?!? It was fairly certain a wagon would form on me immediately and almost assured that I would be lynched... So why would any town reveal themselves unless it became apparent it was needed? none. No town power role would do that.

I probably would. An ability cop would be great and useful only if nailing a "scum" ability. Otherwise, I'm assuming a VT and goon would have the same ability, and give no alignment info away.

"Choosing to appear Redwall-aligned" is a scum ability.
But so is night killing, and he never mentioned that.

[Korlash]

He also never mentions the ability to talk to a scum partner. Obviously I can see why this would be left out, too great a risk of accidentally revealing partner, but it still would be an 'ability' of the scum.

I think both this and the killing thing are irrelevant though. Wouldn't you agree "ability" refers to role specific actions, not alignment specific? Thus, a vanilla town wouldn't reveal "ability to vote" which would distinguish it from the mafia Goon, which normally isn't given that as a mentioned 'ability'.

Back to game relevant things, a power role is a power role regardless of what they do. Him outing himself like he did is still illogical and I don't like that you just attempted to give him a possible out to the question.

[PeregrineV]

He also never mentions the ability to talk to a scum partner. Obviously I can see why this would be left out, too great a risk of accidentally revealing partner, but it still would be an 'ability' of the scum.

Traitor scum wouldn't have QT ability. And it's a given. And it can't be RB. The NK can be.

I think both this and the killing thing are irrelevant though. Wouldn't you agree "ability" refers to role specific actions, not alignment specific? Thus, a vanilla town wouldn't reveal "ability to vote" which would distinguish it from the mafia Goon, which normally isn't given that as a mentioned 'ability'.

No, an ability is conventionally something that a player has if they are not Vanilla. Goon is the scum equivalent of Vanilla. Everyone has a vote, except those that don't. That lack of a vote may even be considered an ability.

Back to game relevant things, a power role is a power role regardless of what they do. Him outing himself like he did is still illogical and I don't like that you just attempted to give him a possible out to the question.

I just pointed out a flaw in his claim. How is that an out?

Vote: Quadz

[Korlash]

I just pointed out a flaw in his claim. How is that an out?

The part where you talked about why an 'ability' cop would want to claim. The idea that he would be useless aside from what he is doing is clearly a possible out for him to use...

Traitor scum wouldn't have QT ability. And it's a given. And it can't be RB. The NK can be.

The RB thing is a good point. But isn't the kill also a given?

[quadz08]

I claimed immediately because I dislike playing games as town. I have what is, by all weights and measures, a guilty on Korlash; I'm going to put it out there as soon as I can. No WIFOM, no mindgames, just straight-up truth. Additionally, I didn't attempt to try to build a wagon on him for 2 reasons: a)There wasn't actually that much suspicion on him from the town; it mostly "shit it's deadline." b) I've seen Korlash play as scum before (he was singersigner's IC in one of her SE games). He talks in circles around everything, and can thus talk himself out of anything. He doesn't lose debates, mostly because he never shuts up.

I believe that there's no reason there can't be a rolecop and a regular cop in the same game, especially one that I believe is likely to be vanilla-less.

I chose Korlash because he was my biggest scumread, for reasons mentioned previously. Certain abilities are more likely to be town- or scum-aligned, so I figured I might try to see if I got something out of it, as well as giving me an idea of whether or not his ability was worth dealing with his obnoxious-as-hell dayplay if he was, in fact, town.

However, I will say this: if anyone redirected me, you need to say so. IMMEDIATELY.

Also, since it seems to be necessary: I am Martin the Warrior. My ability is called "discerning the soul;" basically, due to Martin's ability to weigh a creature's innate sense of right and wrong, it allows him to determine what their unique abilities are. I am a Spirit.

Also:

Hiplop –

M

ostly useless; almost entirely unreadable. Solid D1 lynch material if no one particularly scummy comes along. Vigbait otherwise.

Junpei –

A

bit abrasive, but is also very active. He’s a townread.

Korlash –

R

idiculous amounts of postings. He’s just as useless and unreadable as hiplop, for exactly the opposite reason. It’s a whole bunch of data, and almost zero information. Not to mention, I don’t understand how he can post a million things, and still not know basic information (yes, in fact, Newman was asked to present his meta) that relates directly to his cases / opinions. As I mentioned before, I don’t believe than town-BV would have placed a vote on Newman when he did, due to how weak the reasoning behind that wagon is. Scumread, and anti-town at the very best. Excellent lynch candidate.

Pappum –

T

hough his read on Newman is wrong, he reads as townish to me. Active, intelligent, and posting useful, concise content.

Peregrine –

I

’m reading him as null. He makes good points occasionally, but he seems not terribly useful.

Riceballtail –

N

ot the most active player, but her points are good thus far. I’d like to see a bit more content, but she’s a townread for now.

Vijay –

T

his guy is also a good lynch choice; he doesn’t seem terribly helpful, and his first three votes jump out at me like a cat jumps at a laser pointer. Random vote on BV, serious vote on RBT, back to random vote on BV. WTF. Scummy.

Zdenek –

H

e started off scummy, but got townier as I read. Good contribution / responses by the end. Townish.

iStark –

E

h. Newman has a different opinion on things. Not scummy. Just different (and, IMO, wrong but understandable). I read him as null, as the entirety of his posts were him defending himself from attacks on his L2 opinons.

All of that said, I’m going to leave my vote where it is. Just so you all know, I’m not the most verbose of players. However, when I feel strongly about something, I will be a motherfucking

WARRIOR

about it. And right now, I feel pretty strongly that Korlash, hiplop, or Vijay need to be the lynch today.

Korlash is too misled and committed to be scum I think. Why do you think that the RBT vote by V2V was serious again? Hiplop is a good policy lynch and vigbait yes, but I would rather not policy lynch.

Explain why you don't like my Peregrine case?

1 -

R

emind me how, exactly, misled is a towntell? Committed I can buy, I suppose, but not misled.
2 -

O

k. His vote was placed in response to a serious vote, agreeing with the reasoning of said serious vote.
3 -

L

emme look... your Peregrine case is solid. I'm not convinced, but he's on the watchlist.

So your reasons for voting me are my predecessor was part of a wagon your predecessor was part of, and I miss tiny details that I specifically ask people to tell me.

E

h... nice try at the misrep but no.

C

orlash, your predecessor is BV310. BV is a good player, who knows better than to jump on a weak wagon like Newman's as a town player. The only motivation bv has for that in this game is to try to build it into a mislynch. My predecessor, on the other hand, was Ghostlin, who was

not on the wagon

. Good try, though!

O

h, and as to your second point? When you argue against people, making "Why would this person do Action X, when no one asked him for Action X," the crux of your argument, him

actually having been asked

to do Action X is not a "tiny detail." And with the amount of detail and time you clearly take making each post, I simply don't believe you just missed it. You looked at the age/likely quality of the players in the game and said "I can get away with this."

P

lease, don't pretend that your word vomit is actually legitimate content. Yeah, there might be a few bits in there, but simply spewing out every word you can think of? Not good for town. Period. Not scummy by its nature, but definitely anti-town, and combined with my previous point on leaving out important bits of information, I think that you're using it in a scummy way.



iStark:

There was a big wagon on Newman (your predecessor). He had complained about someone being L-2 on Page 3, so people jumped on him. The discussion has mostly stemmed from that, and people's responses to the Newman wagon.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

There you have it. Who is lying?

[Korlash]

*yawn*

So that proves the scum are given safeclaims. I do like the irony of Martin attacking Germaine though, saved his ass and he stabs me in the back. *shakes head*

Also, since it seems to be necessary: I am Martin the Warrior. My ability is called "discerning the soul;" basically, due to Martin's ability to weigh a creature's innate sense of right and wrong, it allows him to determine what their unique abilities are. I am a Spirit.

The ability to weigh a creatures 'sense of right and wrong' equates to discovering their abilities? what? That clearly suggests you learn their alignment... I don't argue Martin as a cop though, personally I feel Vig would be more obvious but I think cop makes more theme sense. I applaud your choice there.

Your reasons just sound like 'I dislike playing town so why even bother playing correctly' so it simply boils down to my opinion being different than yours. I won't bore the thread with a worthless conversation over them.

I chose Korlash because he was my biggest scumread, for reasons mentioned previously. Certain abilities are more likely to be town- or scum-aligned, so I figured I might try to see if I got something out of it, as well as giving me an idea of whether or not his ability was worth dealing with his obnoxious-as-hell dayplay if he was, in fact, town.

Two questions, does this mean if I had a less worthwhile town ability, you wouldn't have 'dealt' with me? And what do you mean "dayplay"? Isn't it just 'game play'? I'm not trying to imply anything with this, just find it strange wording.

There you have it. Who is lying?

There you go again, acting not town regarding this. Why pose this question to everyone else instead of stating your own opinions on the subject?

[Junpei]

vote quadz08

Dammit, I have this feeling that Korlash is orchestrating a beautiful show for us all as scum... Yet unless I have reason beyond respect to think this, I won't act on it.

A good gentleman plays a fair game. Have at it!

[quadz08]

Yeah, I thought the justification for the rolecop was odd too, honestly.

I disagree with you on how to play correctly as town. This much we know.

By "deal" with you, I mean thus: had you had an ability that was almost certainly a town ability (alignment cop, for example) I would've stopped pushing your lynch, because you would've been essentialy conf-town. If it was something that wasn't as clear (roleblocker, etc), I would've kept pushing you for being scummy.

[Junpei]

See here's where I have an issue. There's a perfectly legitimate reason to rolecop Korlash, but you didn't take it. Korlash claimed multi-shot investigator yesterday. Confirming or conflicting that is perhaps a worthwhile use of the ability, but that isn't anywhere in your thought process.

[quadz08]

To be honest, I had forgotten about his ability claim. I was busy planning/participating in Singer's birthday weekend, and so I didn't review Day 1 very thoroughly over the night phase.

[Riceballtail]

Honestly, after reading most of this a few times now, I'm torn.

Some things that I've thought about that I don't think have been said already now: (WARNING: potential wild speculations may be ahead!)
Scum may have a redirect (although unlikely, the possibility is real).
Scum have a framer (extremely unlikely, but also mentioning it).
If Korlash is actually scum, why didn't Quadz see the typical scum abilities as well?
Anyone can breadcrumb a role. Thus, even scum can fake it.
Quadz instantly threw out that V2V was a vig kill, but do we even know that we have a vig at all? Nobody's claimed it. Stark is the only one who at this point also hasn't posted (not claiming it myself either).
Quadz + Korlash are a scumteam and will coast on town cred from this.

This leads me to believe that Quadz is most likely lying and simply trying to hold out for a 1:1. The only reason I am not voting right now is to prevent a potential quick/selfhammer to shorten the day.