Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[ShadowGirl]

So why would he claim it?

He has to claim something - and he might not understand balance, and this IS the worst roles mafia. He can definitely appeal to benefit of the doubt, but I'm not buying it.

If I didn't find him scummy on his own, I might watch and see, but I think he's scummy, and I think his role is more likely scum, so I think we should lynch him.

That might make sense that he wouldn't know to claim otherwise, if he's more or less a newbie as he says.

[Captain Haddock]

*If they were only masons, they wouldn't be "worst roles" - and so if they claimed that, I'd be very suspicious. It's a given that everyone has some sort of restriction or limiting powers, so do you really think asking whether he was JUST a mason was really going to give anything away? If I asked someone whether they only has a post restriction do you think they'd automatically claim what the rest of their role was?

Putting normal masons in this game is bastardly so no I don't think so. What makes you say that? A lot of players don't have a post restriction and haven't claimed, and some of them will have a power and won't claim it because they have a chance of being killed or roleblocked by the scum(unlike BBmolla). It's not that likely but it's a possibility because people claim far too easily. If he answered the question he would likely reveal if he has a power role, which is pro-scum and anti-town, like everything BB has done this game.

Because town would want to be altruistic, not selfish.

Unfortunately, this is not often true. What is your mafia experience, TSH?

I've played with you before on a number of occasions.

Anyone targeting me loses their role and becomes a ditto too.

Does this make them a carbon-copy, i.e. the same alignment as you? As in, should we be looking at this as a reverse-cultist, even if you're town it would still work the same way? Because if so this game is nine kinds of broken.

So did everyone miss BBmolla's rolefishing and lying?

Candy corn, What actually stops you from posting regulary?

So did everyone miss Captain Haddock's Rolefishing and hypocrisy?

QFT.

QQFT

How does asking someone to explain a post restriction qualify as rolefishing? Unlike finding out if someone has an/another power role that would not be useful to scum. I love how you're called that out but ignored actual rolefishing. I'm sure atleast one of these idiots is BB's buddy.

Candycorn, why are you so reluctant to explain your post restriction if you have one?

Nice opportunistic omgus vote BB.

[Robotnick2]

So why would he claim it?

He has to claim something - and he might not understand balance, and this IS the worst roles mafia. He can definitely appeal to benefit of the doubt, but I'm not buying it.

If I didn't find him scummy on his own, I might watch and see, but I think he's scummy, and I think his role is more likely scum, so I think we should lynch him.

That might make sense that he wouldn't know to claim otherwise, if he's more or less a newbie as he says.

I think everyone's missing that this game, likely as not, isn't balanced. Furthermore, it's a whole heap of WIFOM - the scummiest seeming role may turn out to be pro-town, because hey, that's a bad role.
As far as setup structure goes, we, IMHO, should completely abandon any past expectation of what roles should or could be. We usually play with good roles, with balanced, fair, and just plain sensible roles. These aren't. So far, we have a role that can modkill on whim, various post restrictions, a Ditto, non-standard masons... it's a complete inversion of what we're used to.

So, stop playing by the book. The book's written backwards for this game.

[Amrun]

Putting normal masons in this game is bastardly so no I don't think so.

LOLWHAT

[Gimmicky Alt]

I think everyone's missing that this game, likely as not, isn't balanced. Furthermore, it's a whole heap of WIFOM - the scummiest seeming role may turn out to be pro-town, because hey, that's a bad role.
As far as setup structure goes, we, IMHO, should completely abandon any past expectation of what roles should or could be. We usually play with good roles, with balanced, fair, and just plain sensible roles. These aren't. So far, we have a role that can modkill on whim, various post restrictions, a Ditto, non-standard masons... it's a complete inversion of what we're used to.

So, stop playing by the book. The book's written backwards for this game.

I mean it's not going to be so unbalanced it's boring. and this game was reviewed and designed by 4 people so I imagine they had to do some tweaking to make it competitive.

Putting normal masons in this game is bastardly so no I don't think so.

LOLWHAT

[Moneybags]

CAPTIAN HADDOCK.
LUL WUT.
BB = TOWN.

VOTE: HADDOCK

[izakthegoomba]

Votecount 1.05

Chimera (3) - IceGuy, ManiacalLemon, Candy Corn Vampire
Captain Haddock (2) - BBmolla, Moneybags
Robotnick2 (1) - RedPanda
BBmolla (1) - Captain Haddock
Oversoul (1) - saulres
ManiacalLemon (1) - Chimera
saulres (1) - Teleporting Speed Hippos
Phillammon (1) - Amrun
Teleporting Speed Hippos (0) -

none

Guy_Named_Riggs (0) -

none

danakillsu (0) -

none

PokerFace (0) -

none

Candy Corn Vampire (0) -

none

IceGuy (0) -

none

Amrun (0) -

none

Moneybags (0) -

none

mcqueen (0) -

none

ShadowGirl (0) -

none

Gimmicky Alt (0) -

none

numberQ (0) -

none

RedPanda (0) -

none

knox (0) -

none

No Lynch (0) -

none

Not voting (11) - Guy_Named_Riggs, numberQ, knox, Phillammon, Oversoul, PokerFace, Robotnick2, Gimmicky Alt, mcqueen, ShadowGirl, danakillsu

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch. The deadline is 20:00 UTC on 28th April 2012, in (expired on 2012-04-28 21:00:00).

[Oversoul]

Actually
I'm done waiting.
I see no reason for him to do this.
And looking at birds town flip I'm pretty sure of this.

I'm masons with chimera But I believe he's scum Because he hasn't talked to me in our quicktopic.

...what?

Do you have daytalk?

I lol'ed at this discussion.

Amrun is right, RP is town for his suspicions. I really hope this isn't as bastard as making one mason a scum member and one mason a townie.

I remember someone saying they had a similar role with someone else? who were those two people? Moneybags and BB? I had those two people as town.

knox has a really annoying PR. Izak you should hate yourself for doing that to someone

How is it a post restriction then? Explain it now.

How does it not? If I had a post restriction it would most certainly affect my play. If I cannot express my thoughts normally or if I have to abide to some structure in presenting my opinions I am going to have trouble playing.

Because, at the time I submitted the kill, he was most suscipcious in my eyes. Part of it because of meta, another part being that out of everyone who had posted, he was one of the only posters who seemed like they were trying to appear town, like scum trying to appear town.

I don't like this at all and I am beginning to think my suspicions were correct. More on this later.

I don't think I've ever been this lost. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Agent_Ireland is town. What scum would do that on Day 1? It reads more like town excited to use his role ASAP to me.

When someone is presented as a puppeeter with the power to modkill someone scum would do that...

It is a one shot thing and using it on day 1 seems pointless as town.

Agent_Ireland's use of his ability was a null-tell to me; if I had that sort of power, I would probably use it D1 just for the lulz, scum or town.

Putting Robotnick into the suspicious category for this.

Saul:

Spoiler: Oversoul

If people have more negative aspects to claim like Maniacal we should temper our rush onto Birds's lynch at least until Sunday has passed.

That feels like scum trying to look town.

Please explain. I didn't want a quicklynch if more people had negative aspects to claim until after Easter, which is when a lot of people would be away.

I agree with the Hippo vote.

His vote was on me, why didn't you vote me also?

Not the post I was referring to, buddy.

His first post was voting Hippos, who at the time I thought was acting scummy. Nice of you to be so self centered.

And for any person believing 2birds, please reevaluate your gullibility index.

Right back at you.

And what does this mean? Are there actual facts being presented in this "case"? Or are you just trying to slander my name?

Mod, did the scum get pregame time to talk in their QT?

Why do you care about this? That's a weird question. Trying to not look scum?

No, it is actually a very important question. The reason I asked is if the scum had pregame talk they would know each other's roles and could then pull some sort of manipulation off. At the time, Elmo hadn't been flipped although I suspected him of being scum. I wanted to see if GNR was trying to shoot scum "randomly" in order to gain credit through a constructed plan.

I think Mass Claim Day 2 might be a good idea

So your scumbuddies know who to kill?

Nice try again but no. Basically half of the playerlist has been confirmed, or outted, or claimed something about their role, I suspect after Night 1 even more people will claim so I don't really see the harm in a mass claim on Day 2. No one has been expressly against it, but I apparently have two people who think it is suspicious.

My comments are in orange, Saul.

I'm sick and tired of people thinking I'm scum because I don't know how to start the game. If I unvote, I'm called scum, if I vote someone else, I'm called scum, if I leave my vote, I'm called scum. I can't win for losing

Oh shut up. Bemoaning your own skill isn't giving you any townie points. No one is going to feel sorry for you.

I don't see the point in lynching Chimera until there's an actual reason to think one of the masons are scum.

How about the fact that this is worst roles mafia and there's no point for masons unless there's something terrible about them. I'm guessing that the terrible part is that they're confirmed town to each other when one or both is actually scum.
As a side note, I've been a mafia mason in a bastard mod before.

I think people are missing the obvious facts about the Mason pair.

One mason has to claim it is a mason with its partner in the first post.

RP tried to hide this by calling it fluff.

RP thought his Mason buddy was scum because he wasn't posting.

If the Masons are town-scum paring, RP is most definitely the town.

Chimera has to vote the most recent person who voted for him.

He is essentially outted as well.

The bastard moniker on this game itself weakens the masons.

The "worst role" aspect of these masons is that they are claimed Day 1 and that one of them doesn't have a vote AND there is suspicion between them because this game is inherently a bastard.

I think they are both town, though despite everything.

Dana trying to put suspicion on one of the masons is suspicious. Not sure how I feel about Dana to be quite honest.

Could they be some other kind of mason that doesn't work? I...guess, but what IS a mason? It's an ALIGNMENT CONFIRMED private talking partner. Therefore, the only ways to make it terrible are the alignment and the talking. They haven't mentioned anything being weird about their talking in the QT, so there's something different about the alignment.

Ya, I don't like Dana. He is being too narrowminded with regards to the masons.

I don't take Chimera's word for it that he really has that voting thing, but it's a fair point that the mason part could be to throw us off. I just think that would be really random, for the mason pairing to have nothing to do with the worst roles part of the game.

unvote

Translation: Oh fuck he might be right. gotta hop off now that it is sufficiently scummy!

I probably shouldn't use my role, which is a shameI wanted to bring some others into this game

Why exactly can't you bring others into this game?

Like will they have an actual player slot and be able to vote, or will they just have the option of communicating with you via neighborhood?

If they just communicate with you via neighborhood I don't really see the problem, but make sure you neighborize one of the people in this game so town can verify what goes on in the QT.

If you bring people in the actual game eh... I think you should save them the burden and not be a dick.

I want to give you a hug but I don't you to think I'm buddying. In all seriousness, beats me. Sometimes it's like beating a brick wall over and over again.

You serious, Shadow?

k anyways the problem I have with oversoul is that he acknowledged that 2birds role could be changed but followed with trying to stifle any sort of doubt about the mod-confirmation. If anyone was trying to push a quick lynch it was him, he didn't even take a second to evaluate alternatives.

So? I already stated that mine is completely unchanged. One of us was bound to be right if you are going to use the argument that his role was either changed, or unchanged. Plus, what is worse? Being a townie and falsely accused of being mod confirmed scum? Essentially a miller? Or actually being mod confirmed scum as scum?

What is this doublespeak shit? I don't even know.

It is exactly what it is.

Worst Role doesn't mean oh that role sucks because what sucks is subjective.

Worst Role means it is hard for that role to win.

Look at the roles in that thread, most of them include severely debilitating sideffects such as guilty child, cults that have to announce themselves, suicide jesters, etc. A bad role is a role that is hard to win with... universally. There's no subjectivity there.

Really? Your the one believing the mod in a bastard game, A type of game that exists soley so the mod can screw with people.

I concede that this was guillible, but I didn't think the bastard term applied to Izak. I thought it was labeled bastard simply because a game with these roles and loose balancing can only be classified as bastard.

Wow so if he was town he'd want himself to get lynched? No, townies are looking to lynch scum not townies so wanting to get lynched as town is fucking stupid.and again, this is a fucking bastard game. In a town with a vote magnet and someone who's gonna explode, you think there are alot of people who aren't a detriment to this town?

Who are you? Like what is your original account? I really want to know.

I'm not going to argue using "ifs" since he has already died, but if I was in his shoes I would have conceded that really, I need to be killed simply because of the WIFOM surrounding that role. If it wasn't toDay, or toNight, the next Day/Night, he was going to die. It was inevitable.

A vote magnet and a person who explodes? Two roles that are detriments out of 25? Vote magnet is easily avoidable (oh look no one was trapped by the magnet except Chimera because of his own role). Realistically, you are only proving my point that I thought this was bastard because of the roles not the mod lying.

Really? so elmo is fucking scum for doing the exact goddamn thing you did?

Elmo did not do the same "goddamn thing". Elmo voted 2birds, and fos'ed three other people without commenting on ANYTHING.

he then said more votes on 2bird trying to end the day as quickly as possible.

That is exactly the opposite of what I did. I didn't want the day to end before everyone had posted. I didn't want the day to end before people with negative utility roles (Chimera, Manical, etc) claimed.

Elmo did nothing in the short time he was alive and the fact that you are trying to compare me to him is simply ridiculous and reaching.

Yes because I often as scum with a dayvig shoot my fucking scumbuddy in the face. Why waste your vig on your scumpal when you can shoot someone not of your alignment?

I'd like to remind you that this was before Elmo flipped and this was also before I received my non answer about pregame discussion for the mafia.

I take it you are someone new as you would have known about Hascow shooting his scumbuddy with his own Dayvig power in one of the Eddard Stark games. I'm sorry if I am reasonably suspicious of a scumbuddy shooting a doomed teammate which at the time is what I thought 2birds was.

Goddamn this is the worst. What kind of stupid ass reasoning is this? cause you know, the only people that are claiming because they HAVE to.

Your point? People are already claiming and scum will be able to wade through the legitimate threats and the non legitimate threats. With half the town already claimed they are already better informed and I am sure they will be even more informed after toNight.

If you guys don't want to massclaim that is fine, it was just a suggestion, but I still don't think it is particularly a bad idea.

First of all I will attempt to prove the the two voting restrictions. VOTE: Chimera. If he has to vote me his next vote will change, But if maniacal is telling the truth the vote won't change. I'm not sure how the mod will compromise these two if they're both telling the truth. seems like an easy way to test both of these at the same time. Also I am willing to follow this pseudo confirmed mason reasoning, thoug why aren't you voting him RedPanda

This is town thinking and suspicion.

Teleporting Space Hippos looks better for his 313. TSP, are you an alt?

As to why I mention it, would you rather I don't mention where I think people should look for connections? I've been helped in scumhunting by dead townies who posted their associations (and other thoughts), and then when I'm rereading after more information comes out, I suddenly see an association they mentioned (or something else) and catch scum. So why wouldn't I want to do the same for others?

uh..

I don't know about this. Noting this for later.

There may be a "Death Note" style effect like in mind screw mafia (I forget which one). In any case, without a nameclaim, anybody who targets me will turn into me, and the action will fail.

super paranoid.

I can't tell whether or not this is survival instincts or not.

For the time being I see him as town though

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Saul

[Phillammon]

I've revealed everything except my role name and my power inhibitor. I think that's fair. In any case, gnight. I've read up, will react tomorrow.

[ShadowGirl]

You serious, Shadow?

There was an emoticon for a reason. And the line about buddying is in reference to saul's post 31 where he accused me of buddying.

[ShadowGirl]

You serious, Shadow?

There was an emoticon for a reason. And the line about buddying is in reference to saul's post 31 where he accused me of buddying.

To clarify: it was a joke.

[Gimmicky Alt]

kk i find your reasons fair and not contrived oversoul. VOTE: Robonick2 your iso is lame and you have made no comment on the alignment of said masons you outed. or anyone else for that matter.

I'm not telling you my original account though sorry.

[danakillsu]

Oversoul clearly wants me to be scum in this game for some reason, considering the really weak and carefully phrased case there. As if admitting I could be wrong about something is scummy.

Vote: Captain Haddock

That was one of the least pro-town posts I have ever seen.

[Gimmicky Alt]

Can you vote knox or have you just not done so yet?

[Robotnick2]

kk i find your reasons fair and not contrived oversoul. VOTE: Robonick2 your iso is lame and you have made no comment on the alignment of said masons you outed. or anyone else for that matter.

I'm not telling you my original account though sorry.

Very true. I've made no comment because I have no opinion. I'm not very good at Mafia - my meta will confirm this. Indeed, every time I /in to a game I end up wondering why I did, and vowing never to again. However, this game is fun.

Diatribe aside, I didn't "out" the masons. RP outed them. However, again, your point about the lack of opinion is correct - see above.
I acknowledge that I'm not defending myself very well, but this is all the defence I can give. I'm not posting because I have nothing to say. I have nothing to say because nothing springs to mind to ask when I look at a post.

However, you asked me about my reads, so I shall give them to you.
If ever you want reasoning for any of these, just let me know - I'm leaving it out for the sake of brevity.

Agent_Ireland

- Null

Amrun

- Hard to read, leaning town

BBMolla

- null, slight town lean, nothing too strong

Candy Corn Vampire

- not really anything to go on, so null

Captain Haddock

- nice tunnel you got there. I'm sensing a lyncher here.

Chimera

- null

danakillsu

- leaning slightly town

Gimmicky Alt

- null, leaning very slightly scum. inb4 OMGUS.

Guy_Named_Riggs

- Meh. I honestly don't know, so null.

IceGuy

- slight town

izakthegoomba

- Bastard

knox

- How am I supposed to read a guy that posts only in gifs?

ManiacalLemon

- slight lean scum

mcqueen

- Null. Get in here and post, boy!

Moneybags

- null

numberQ

- Erm... is he still alive?

Oversoul

- Again, hard to read. Null.

Phillammon

- Null leaning slight town.

PokerFace

- Null

RedPanda

- Null, leaning slightly town.

saulres

- leaning town.

ShadowGirl

- Hmm. Town.

Teleporting Speed Hippos

- Slight lean scum.

[Phillammon]

I note I haven't voted yet. As of yet, I agree that someone is being VERY tunnelvisioned. VOTE: Haddock, as my largest scumread.

[IceGuy]

Why should a lyncher tunnel? Just fake an investigation result.

[saulres]

I'll respond to Oversoul tomorrow when I have more time -- there seems to be a lot to say.

[Captain Haddock]

Putting normal masons in this game is bastardly so no I don't think so.

LOLWHAT

I was speaking hyothetically, I was saying that it would be bastard because any masons is bastard in a game where you can't trust "confirmations".


Oversaul, I didn't understand how she could have a post restriction but have normal looking posts and I didn't feel like taking her word for it.

Vote: Captain Haddock

That was one of the least pro-town posts I have ever seen.

You must not have seen this then https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 1#p3958251

Captain Haddock

- nice tunnel you got there. I'm sensing a lyncher here.

Tell me what anyone has done that is as scummy as trying to end the day early(4 pages is enough to read) and rolefishing.

[Amrun]

I was speaking hyothetically, I was saying that it would be bastard because any masons is bastard in a game where you can't trust "confirmations".

THIS IS A BASTARD GAME! You can't say so and so wouldn't happen because it would be bastardly.

[PokerFace]

Caught up to page 12. If something I said here is answered between 12 and 16 then I'll catch it later or ask you again if I miss it

@Shadowgirl,

Your skill turned birds from townie into a survivor and then killed him. Does that mean 2Birds just lost the game and can't even win with the town? From a moral standpoint I can't say I like that skill. I am a proponent of the vidge village idiots on night 0 philosophy but at least they can still win the game if their side plays well. If anything their side likly has a better chance to win without them. 2birds wasn't a village idiot and doesn't even get a chance to win now. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad a role like his is out of the game given the mod's cruel trickery, but do you have a kill skill that doesn't make people survivors first? I kinda wish I had read the opening rules with more of a keen eye now. I'm not as 'intentionally' cruel as izak when I run a bastard game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=11035
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=11067
I give players more warning and a chance even if its a blind one

@Shadowgirl,

also if your wondering if my earlier suspicions of you have changed, I will say they have changed but not because you are a goddess. Earlier you asked about my suspicions instead of really coming back at me. That and your reaction to why I suspected, has given me the impression you were trying to read me. And Mafia would have no need to read me. The remainder of this post should tell you who I suspect as scum in general

@oversoul,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3956407
either I am a little confused, or you think GNR is town for not making the obvious shot and for gnr poorly jumping on a wagon you just jump on. How is that logic sane? Can't say I'm a fan of your day 1 lynch logic either though thats more of a mafia theory opinion that a consideration of you being scum

@Phillammon,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3958635
you are being confusing to me as well. GNR confirmed? And can you answer the things I asked you before?

@iceguy,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3956707
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3956742
Uhm I didn't exactly say that either. I was pushing for 2birds to be scum and some people that poorly suggested a contrary, were his buddies. I'm not sure who was pushing the "

all

people thinking 2b1s

might not

be 100% confirmed scum are themselves scum". Was there someone doing that? Otherwise your vote seemed somewhat OMGUS. Do you still suspect me? My suspicions of SG has dropped but I can't help but ponder if you are actually scum who knew 2birds was town when he first voted him.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3954580

@saulres,

In reference to your earlier question, I was too lazy to want to hunt through that for all 24 other players at that time.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3959479
And if you are asking about Masons, I'm partly responsible for the mason/neighbor naming scheme. I came up with the idea of mod's using the term neighbors to refer to unconfirmed masons, but not all mods have adapted to the idea. Some mods still use the term masons to refer to both confirmed and unconfirmed talk buddies. Given how things are in this game I would assume iZak hasn't taken to neighbor naming idea
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3959426
The way your post here is formatted to address many players kinda bothers my eyes. Do you think that format is better than the one I'm using here?

@Robotnick,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3958320
I think Knox's comment here may be true.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3958849
Not totally buying your opinion here since your previous post now comes off as wanting to get rid of the masons at a time when they were not fully unserstood and that's amost as bad as bbmolla's view (more on this later). Tell me Robotnick what mafia experience do you have outside of this game?

@BBmolla,

I don't get his early attempt to look confirmed
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3959020
last time I played trying to look or appear confirmed, I was scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3955739
Molla was the first to discredit the masons before they came out as neighbors and he discredited them before everyone knew who they were
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3956818
This strikes me as a mafioso trying to put down a usually confirmed and pwerful role before it can help the town. And I tend to agree with Haddock when it comes to your fishing and quick lynching
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3958688
Also your PR is highly amusing, simple, and not very determental. Given our mod's so far cruelness and how the other PR's appear, I would say your PR is the one most likly to be fake. Tell me, must you end every line with a rhyme every time or is their some lenancy on your postings or penalties?

@whoever cares

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3957429
Dr wily? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZiSaOHlUdk
Someone better get that joke. I'm not so sure agent's actions make him likly scum at this time. I think he's town for a non-excited player reason. I plan on asking him a question later to confirm this theory

I will vote when I am fully caught up and after I see how players react to my post here

[Oversoul]

Poker you reminded me of something I did not comment on in my other catch up post

I'm trying to catch up in another game right so I'll make it short and quick

I WAS calling GNR town for making the unorthodox shot, but now that he has done a double take on his reasoning I don't think he is town anymore

My evidence

Wow...That was lucky
I am Fritzler's Favorite Role
I had a 1-shot Daykill ability that I had to use on Day 1 within the first five pages or I would lose my vote.
Elmo has always been on of those people that I have had a hard time reading, so rather than keep him around to mind screw with my head the entire game, I took a chance and shot him, hoping he was scum. I was close.

Because, at the time I submitted the kill, he was most suscipcious in my eyes. Part of it because of meta, another part being that out of everyone who had posted, he was one of the only posters who seemed like they were trying to appear town, like scum trying to appear town.

He applies that second set of "he was trying to appear town" only came into existence after I had posted my suspicions of Elmo and after I had defended GNR's shot

[saulres]

I may respond in more detail to the rest tomorrow, but tonight I only have time for little things.

The way your post here is formatted to address many players kinda bothers my eyes. Do you think that format is better than the one I'm using here?

I don't, but I'd never seen your method used. It's quite nice and I'll be sure to use it in the future if I have a need for such a long player-by-player one again.

[saulres]

How come I didn't get pedit?

Oversoul, that is an awesome find. I've caught scum before when they make something up and then forget what they made up and make up something contradictory. Every time I found those, actually, I caught scum.

So...

Vote: GNR