Open 387: Jungle Republic (Day 6 - ends in a Town Victory)

[asher1611]

Asher is town

hes just being stupid unfortunately.

Stop infighting

We need to lynch the scum not town.

Yes, please try to buddy with someone who it pushing against your role claim, voted for you, and is continuing to discredit you.

I think I see what you're doing there.

[Slandaar]

scum dont push legit claims like ever without a lot of town backing, which you dont have.

[Thomith]

im not calling you out for voting, im calling you out for voting when called out on and for voting even though in this situation it is stupid (imo of course)

[asher1611]

if slandaar is seer wolves will probably kill him tonight,

meaning lynching him could be a wasted lynch,

also it isn't really anti-town play if he is going to get lynched anyway.
This slandaar wagon just got a whole lot worse and i feel there is at least one scum on it, the reasoning for it plus the current arguements to lynch it despite the claim are just bad bad bad.

atm im not voting chrimi, i would be willing to lynch one of asher/kass/om today, as i already said,

lynching the seer is a wasted lynch

, because if they are a seer or not a wolf then they will most likely die tonight.
also i might buy the slandaar being not a seer easier if they randomly claimed, but they were L-1 and was about to get lynched, which really most power roles would claim then, if you were seer you probably would have too.

I appreciate the fact that you continue to make sense and are using logical reasoning. And pardon my voting etiquette -- I guess I'm used to playing Mafia at other places where people don't throw out their votes as hastily or as often as they do on this site. Live and learn I guess.

And I get your argument but I don't like the characterization of it being a "wasted lynch." It could be the "wrong" lynch, but if we nail scum it is hardly wasted. Think about it from the scum's perspective for a second:

1) Would the mafia squander their man advantage by having one of them claim seer on day one, making the player an obvious target for the wolves, who they are competing against? Most likely, no. The scum team would either lose that mafia member and/or draw out the seer, who cannot see mafia but can draw out werewolves. The mafia would risk losing their man advantage plus a way to out their opposing scum team. It would be in the mafia's best interest to not claim seer.

2) Would one of the two werewolves try and claim seer to save their own skin? Absolutely. It could avoid a lynch, and wolves are not going to NK one of their own. It could draw out the seer, the only town power role and the only one who can detect them. Plus if they draw out the seer but had already claimed seer first, who is the town going to believe? There's the potential of surviving an extra day by the town mislynching the actual seer.

I agree that it is typical for town power roles to claim at L-1 what their role is. But this game is not like other setups where the mystery town doc/jailer/etc can swoop in and save the claimed power role for at least one night (thus creating the prisoner's dilemma of who to protect and who to kill target). No, once the seer outs himself or herself, the seer is still going to die either by a lynch or by a night kill without being able to give any additional info. One Day 1 at 1-L, that's without giving any info at all.

Even if we continue to disagree, you see my point, right?

[vijay2vasandani]

Sorry I can't buy that claim. My head hurts but really that seems more likely a werewolf trying to get the real Seer to CC. Claiming seer now would be useless. There is no town motivation to this because no protection means that he's dead anyway. Better leave us a nightkill we can analyse, instead of one that we know is going to happen imo.

Will look through the other new stuff in the morning, my head hurts.

P.edit: I think I may have just regurgitated Asher's points. Oh well.

[Thomith]

I semi see your point but i disagree,
your right, he could be werewolf saving his skin, but what if he's not? Werewolves would be stupid to leave a seer alive to get even one report off, meaning if slandaar is seer lynching him give the wolf a free kill, by lynching someone else if slandaar is seer werewolves pretty much have to kill slandaar.

[asher1611]

I semi see your point but i disagree,
your right, he could be werewolf saving his skin, but what if he's not? Werewolves would be stupid to leave a seer alive to get even one report off, meaning if slandaar is seer lynching him give the wolf a free kill, by lynching someone else if slandaar is seer werewolves pretty much have to kill slandaar.

Which of course creates the classic WIFOM of what happens if the wolves decide to not NK Sland, since everyone assumes they will, we lynch him the next day and he flips seer anyway.

You're balancing the risk-reward of potentially killing the seer day 1.

I'm voting based off of what reads like a desperation claim by scum.

[Thomith]

True, but even then the seer would have at least one report we could go on if they are the seer, and if they arent then we still get the scum lynch so risk=reward in this situation imo.

[Ravel]

Day 1 Vote Count

Slandaar (6)

L-1

: Kassadin, Chrimi, drmyshotgun, vijay2vasandani, Elmo TeH AzN, asher1611
Om of the Nom (1): LBJ
asher1611 (2): kondi2424, Thomith
Chrimi (1): Slandaar

Not Voting (2): BagSquad, Om of the Nom

There are 12 players alive, which means it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in

(expired on 2012-04-16 09:00:00)

(April 16, 9:00 AM EDT or 1:00 PM GMT)

As of Post #457

[Thomith]

mod you have vijay voting twice

modedit: Oops, sorry about. FIXED

[Om of the Nom]

This semantics discussion is getting too distracting.

Benefits to not lynching Slandaar: He could possibly be seer, which means he might also possibly get a result. We don't waste a lynch on a claimed power role, and instead we could lynch scum.

Benefits to lynching Slandaar: He could be scum or Werewolf fake-claiming scum to get town cred.

Keeping the above in mind, who is wanting to lynch Slandaar today. Keep your answer short and simple.
I'm not wanting to lynch him today.

[Thomith]

He could be scum or Werewolf

fake-claiming scum to get town cred.

ummmm.... wut?

i think it is obvious i don't want to lynch slandaar today.

[Om of the Nom]

Oh whoops, that was a mistake on my part :V

"He could be scum or Werewolf fake-claiming seer to get town cred."

[asher1611]

Keeping the above in mind, who is wanting to lynch Slandaar today. Keep your answer short and simple.

Doesn't the vote record already reflect this? Obviously we're still waiting to hear from other people since Sland's claim.

I stand by my vote to lynch Slandaar for the reasons I outlined above.

[Thomith]

with the claim some people might realize what i am saying does make sense, but meh.

[Slandaar]

benefits to lynching me: 0

benefits to lynching someone else: we might actually lynch scum today.

[Chrimi]

if you were town why would you have cared though, towns main objective is to find scum, not to look town.
Also "does it make me scum" is the towny looking way of saying "OMG IM NOT SCUM"

Ahhah, town's objective is to not get killed whilst finding the scum. Everybody's objective is to not die so they can continue trying to find scum, or for the scum trying to lynch townies.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

UNVOTE: Slandaar
I'm finally somewhat awake.
I see the claim.
VOTE: Chimi
Didn't like the buddying. I'll read the rest in a bit. Just woke up

[Chrimi]

Chrimi is definitely scum here hes misrepping deliberately.

OK

I am the seer

Om is very bad, but hes town probably. Thomith is town. Kondi is town. Asher is probably town. thats 5/7 town. Lynching scum shouldnt be too hard. Lynching dr or Chrimi is definitely the best bet.

Never seen Elmo post so much, not sure what that means. Maybe town.

Dont vote any of my townreads meaning the only wagon available is Chrimi or start your own.

Did he really just claim before somebody declared intent to hammer?

And maybe just saying Chrimi is best bet without any REASONS<<< that word btw is kind of NEEDED*
Could i have some pl0x?

look its very very likely all 4 of us are town purely based on how much we have posted and the speed at which we respond to each other.

we need to vote together.

Get on Chrimi or Kass

Nobody is going to listen until you actually give... oh what are those convincing things that people need to listen to you? Oh that's right, REASONS. GIVE THEM.


Anyways. Seer, don't counter-claim slandaar- we don't want them pulling out our power role. Let's get him lynched now before our seer counter-claims and get's nk'd.

[Thomith]

Nope chrimi.
Towns main objective is to find scum, not stay alive, also i'm a bit unsure on a chrimi lynch, i certainly suspect them a bit for still trying even with the seer claim, if there is a seer dont cc of course but i already explained all this...
would still prefer an asher/om/kass lynch, leaning asher/kass atm though.

[Chrimi]

UNVOTE: Slandaar
I'm finally somewhat awake.
I see the claim.
VOTE: Chimi
Didn't like the buddying. I'll read the rest in a bit. Just woke up

Elmo, do me a favor and try to remember my town meta, I know the restart wiped most of it away but if you remember buddying with rach the whole game, because I knew she was very town or perhaps a power role based on her behavior.

P-edit: Thomith, Main objective is to find scum you're right, but secondary objective is to stay alive long enough to actually complete the main objective. If you don't spend any time making sure you don't look scummy, everyone will be on your ass and you'll get lynched before you can even try the main objective.

[Chrimi]

Also:

Don't kill om, don't kill asher, and don't kill v2v.

Please, don't.

[Thomith]

but they should be focusing on the main objective, if you die then if you have reads your main objective can still be fulfilled, only time where town should try to not look scummy would be lylo imo but thats just me.

[Chrimi]

Well, everybody has their own way to play the game.

[Chrimi]

Also- Don't say 4 people are town just because you're all online at the same time, that's absolutely nuts.