League of Legends (Old)

[mykonian]

You'd think that people would be a little more reserved on first picking morgana in a veigar free week.

[Patrick]

Having Morgana on your team is good against Veigar. You just shield whatever he tries to burst down.

[Shanba]

Having Morgana on your team is good against Veigar. You just shield whatever he tries to burst down.

The only downside I can see for veigar vs morgana is it seems like a fairly easy lane for him to farm in, but in general I expect morg is going to get more farmed in the lane, be able to freely roam, be able to black shield and walk through stun circle (also black shield bruisers), be able to balck shield and protect against burst and generally be a big threat in teamfights that's kinda hard to burst due to her penchant for building tanky. IDK, I guess there are better picks to lane against veigar but she's not a bad one.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The only issues I see Morg having are the aforementioned ease for Veigar to farm up with his Q, and the fact that she'll usually be building a lot of AP and health (in the form of her RoA) which makes both his ult and Deathfire Grasp, which most Veigars buy, more powerful.

[Shanba]

[xRECKONERx]

Anivia needs a damn buff.

[JDodge]

The only issues I see Morg having are the aforementioned ease for Veigar to farm up with his Q, and the fact that she'll usually be building a lot of AP and health (in the form of her RoA) which makes both his ult and Deathfire Grasp, which most Veigars buy, more powerful.

Except that a Morg who builds no resistances deserves to fucking die anyways, and the fact that black shield is a massive effective health steroid against magic burst damage (which veigar is made out of).

Veigar is an easy lane for Morg since it allows her to both farm

and

be aggro once she gets blue/catalyst. You

can

zone the Veigar off of farm with enough pressure, and a Morg can provide that pressure since the only things that give Veigar lane safety are the threat of burst (mitigated severely by black shield) and his stun (ignored by black shield). She doesn't need nor necessarily want to be continually shoving the lane and giving Veigar freefarm at tower - this allows her to start using occasional pools for harassment as well. Pool would be an excellent harassment tool in lane were it not for the fact that it's pretty much the best creep-clearing tool in the game at earlier levels.

[esuriospiritus]

Except that a Morg who builds no resistances deserves to fucking die anyways

so true

but I actually really, really prefer laning Annie against Veigar to Morgana. Early game, with the safety of a warded river I feel like Annie is a lot better at consistently forcing Veigar to farm under his tower and more punishing when he tries to do anything

but

farm under his tower (hard to snare someone hiding behind creeps + a tower, easy to Qpassive+RWQIgniteFlash away from turret). Build into catalyst and merc treads (or at least the 400g MR cape) and insta-kill him at 6. Kill him like 3 more times before finally taking his tower and he's pretty much useless unless the game gets to late-late game (at which point Annie is pretty much completely fuxxored if the Veigar isn't horribad, but eh, ad carry should be the one carrying the game at that point anyway).

Might not work at all elos obviously but it works for me.

[JDodge]

Except that competent Veigars should be perfectly happy that you're letting them freefarm under their tower.

[esuriospiritus]

Even the competent veigars get blown up under their turret by an annie.

Or maybe I'm just 1100ish elo and never faced a competent veigar.

Come to think of it, I can only think of two times I've been up against a veigar that could

consistently

land his stun against a moving target, so :s

[Staeg]

Unless the Veigar starts with 86 MR, the annie shouldn't let him reach lvl5 before the annie herself hits lvl7. And you should pretty much never shove the lane up to tower as annie if your opponent is a weak laner - you simply multiply his number of assholes and win the game from there.

[esuriospiritus]

If I can combo him to death under his tower, isn't it better that the turret eats some of his farm though (assuming I'm not at a level of play where people can farm perfectly under tower)?

srs question -- I am always interested in more efficiently eating veigars for breakfast.

[quadz08]

Pushing up your lane as Annie just seems like a truly awful idea. It makes you wayyyy too vulnerable to ganks, IMO.

[Staeg]

Well, assuming that you can 100-0 him under tower (you shouldn't be able to), you can 100-0 him not under tower just as well. Simply freeze the lane in the middle or even slightly to his side and watch him get 5% of his creeps instead of the normal 40% he'd get under tower.

P-edit: quadz, that's one of but not the most important reason of not shoving.

[quadz08]

Yes, true. The farming under tower thing + making it impossible for anyone to come in for a gank on the opponent are also pretty solid factors.

[esuriospiritus]

Good point, would be interested in 1v1ing a seasoned veigar player and testing the difference in their Q farm, if we have any on site. Gank point is somewhat mitigated if I'm not being a derp and warding, but I'm the first to admit that I am sometimes most definitely derpalicious.

[dramonic]

patrick?

[Staeg]

Good point, would be interested in 1v1ing a seasoned veigar player and testing the difference in their Q farm, if we have any on site. Gank point is somewhat mitigated if I'm not being a derp and warding, but I'm the first to admit that I am sometimes most definitely derpalicious.

Patrick is. The problem with that is that he's actually decent, unlike most veigars you'll face (eg, he'll go full MR instead of going "herp derp, well veigar beats annie so lemme make a full AP page").

[TheButtonmen]

Farming Q while running all MR runes you say?

[esuriospiritus]

Ok, noted.

Btw if anyone who's been on PBE/knows what's up has any opinions on the upcoming rune changes,I'd love to hear about it.

[Patrick]

I would take you up on that, and possibly expect to lose esurio. Your mid lane play is very solid and mechanically strong, and I'm not such an amazing Veigar, just pretty much the only person who plays him with any regularity. I now try to pick him more sparingly, usually only if I've seen their mid or have some ridiculous urge to first pick him.

I did recently put together a page of MR quints and blues, together with the 6 magic resist mastery (though still running 21 in offence). If you open null magic, you can go into lane with 87 MR, which is kind of funny and has let me farm fairly well against opponents I've tried it against so far. I've also been considering just trying to play him as a more standard AP carry since he got buffed, not going hyper-defensive, but just building boots, a dorans ring or two and then a DFG, and trying to trade some hits then zone the opponent with the threat of a big combo rather than burning most of my mana on Q-farming. I don't know how well it might work, but as soon as I practice having the muscle memory to incorporate both ignite and DFG into a combo (currently been taking teleport and using same key for DFG as I do for ignite), I might give it a try. Veigar may be a weak laner, but he's ridiculous if gets ahead, and a really good mid to gank for (also quite hard for the enemy jungle to gank).

[Nexus]

I play Veigar whenever I play LoL...

I'm shit at the game though, so esurio would own me.

[JDodge]

Ok, noted.

Btw if anyone who's been on PBE/knows what's up has any opinions on the upcoming rune changes,I'd love to hear about it.

based on raw numbers, MR blues are still good (13.41 for a full set to 12.06 is a roughly .006 difference in the damage multiplier if i'm calculating correctly and thus not really any more than a negligible change)

if they want to nerf MR runes, they need to hit flat harder

[esuriospiritus]

Okay, cool. Not sure off the top of my head if I have you added or not but I can rectify that when I get home. Time zones might be an issue but I'm mostly free tomorrow and/or thursday.

And noted, JD, thanks.

[Shanba]

does anyone want a dota2 beta key? I just got an account and it came with two invites.