↑ Oversoul wrote:Oh would you look at that, BB hopping on to my wagon.
If I am lynched don't let these two scumbags live to endgame.
↑ Tierce wrote:Do explain how I have to think even for a moment that the recruited person is scum, if the recruited person is ME and I know that my alignment is town. really. How on earth do you expect me to make a case for a BBscum possibility that DOES NOT EXIST, because I know my own alignment? You're wanting me to paint myself as hyposcum so I'll justify this ridiculous hypothesis of BBscum? No thank you. I'm town, and BBscum would NOT recruit Tiercetown. The moment I flip scum, feel free to lynch him--but that's not going to happen because I'm town.
I'm sorry I don't have your role PM and don't know for certain what your alignment is. I am sorry that I am not going to trust you on your word simply because you said so.
THAT is why I said think for a moment. You aren't even considering the possibility that town are skeptical of you and BB. WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE. You are making it very difficult to get this information to discern your alignments with your hardcore defensive position of BBmolla.
BBscum actually has the possibility for two hypotheses.
Hypothesis 1 states that BBscum would recruit a player because said player would become scum. Choosing you makes perfect sense in that situation as I have already stated.
And yet I will NEVER dwell on this possibility because I am not scum, and you were NOT trying to get me to "think for a moment". You were accusing BB of being scum with me:
↑ Oversoul wrote:BB choosing you IS preservation and here is why.
BB as SCUM would choose the person who can read him best, Tierce, to come into the game BECAUSE he knows that all of his "neighbors" will be his alignment.
Once you join the game because you are now TIED to BB you would use your "scumhunting" and discern that BB "isn't scum". BB's power to create his own little possee assures that he will have at least one other person vouching for him. So yes, that was a very defensive move on BB's part.
And for the record, now that you are coming at me yet again with insane accusations I think you both are scum.
↑ Tierce wrote:BBscum would have no motivation for adding a tough lynch target / another needed NK to the game, especially since I'm someone who can read him well.
Yes. Yes he would if he knows what alignment you are going to be before hand.
You were calling us both scum, and calling him scum pending my alignment. I am not scum, therefore I will never consider this possibility as viable. Your case is nonsense, because it is based off two people being scum when you haven't flipped either, and you are speculating on setup (as you said you wouldn't). You are insisting we are scum together are trying to convince ME of it by showing me how you think I would play as scum, and that is utterly absurd. You are not going after BB or myself based off behavior, you are going from the roles alone in an arrangement that makes no sense whatsoever, for reasons I have explained:
↑ Tierce wrote:By the way, adding to the crap reasoning by Oversoul: how do you even think it would be balanced to add two scum players to a game while not altering the town pool? Why would BB announce this instead of lying low and recruit scum players 1) without anyone knowing it was his doing and 2) the night before LyLo, thus rendering the game an immediate scum win when town numbers = scum numbers?
There is no reason for hypoBBscum-with-recruitable-scumbuddies to recruit last night. None. Ever. No, it does not add 'towncred' he might need now, he could 1) do it in silence and 2) later in the game and
no one would know
.
The more I try to look at this from that "omg they are both scum!!1!11!one!" perspective you
might
have if you were town, the less sense it makes. You're not stupid, Oversoul. You're scum who knows we're both town and thus isn't even seeing the glaring holes in this theory.
BBscum would not recruit last night, he would not claim the role, he would wait until late in the game for an autowin. This alone should clear him.
↑ Oversoul wrote:Hypothesis 2 (I think Saul mentioned this) states that BBscum would recruit a player because said player would become town. Choosing you again, makes logical sense although on a much ballsier level because it would mean BBscum would choose the one person who likely would get him killed. Ergo my comment about him playing you.
Also, I have seen scum do these types of ballsy ass moves. Hascow killing his own scumteam with his Day Vig shot. Shadow Dancer giving a very protown looking player a Cop ability from an inventor. I'm not going to ignore the possibility that this is a massive gambit. You shouldn't forget that.
Again, I am not an idiot. I know he
might
be scum. I'm only certain of my own alignment. But you are undermining townreads without even looking at
my
reasoning as to why BB is a townread. You're just throwing your hands in the air and going "omgomgomg they are both scum or he's playing her omgomg!" and that is scummy noise.
↑ Oversoul wrote:The reason why I asked you about the question regarding Haylen's thread is that you commented on the thread. Although you don't appear to have any comments specifically concerning the topic I am going to assume that you have read it and agree. Haylen said that many people are moving into calling someone scum and then immediately dismissing what they have to say. That is *exactly* what you did when I commented to your quoted marks.
Oh, the irony. I am not dismissing what you have to say. YOU are the one dismissing people as scum left and right. Want an example?
↑ Oversoul wrote:You remaining alive for the very sake of your role will be detrimental to the town even if you truly were town. You would realize this if you were town and accept that your lynch is the best thing to do.
Good night scum.
This is bull-fucking-shit. No townie would willingly accept their own lynch, and you didn't even consider the points that 2birds1stone was bringing up about his role and his defense. You sat on the easy 'modconfscum' wagon on a bastard mod game, and while I understand the reasoning that someone else had about "we need to confirm if the mod is telling the true", you IMMEDIATELY dismissed 2birds1stone as scum and NEVER tried to study his alignment before flip. This is what scum does.
↑ Oversoul wrote:Your hardcore attack on me combined with that little stunt of ignoring my comments are why I think you and BBmolla are some form of twisted Mythological Hydra spawned from the depths of Hades.
What comments have I ignored?
↑ Oversoul wrote:I can see you being town but the way you are playing makes me doubt this thought immensely.
Right. And this is the exactly same reasoning you have been using to hop on wagons throughout this game. "I can see X being town, but SELF DOUBT OH NO!" You don't stick to your stances, you don't look for MERIT in anyone's points, you just want to lynch anyone.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:Yes, I am quite sure for a "short amount of time" of what BB's alignment is. I defend my townreads when they are being wagoned. You don't have any idea of how much knowledge we've shared, so you're grabbing at straws and, AGAIN, not explaining why certain behavior is or isn't scummy. Why is getting a speedread on the person I was recruited by scummy? It isn't.
Newsflash.
It is.
Your read is premature at best and your "certainty" that BBmolla is town is startling. I know you are a good player, but even seasoned veterans do not come to such conclusions as fast as you did with regards to BB's alignment. Even now it looks like he is watching you fight his battles for him.
You are right. I don't understand how much knowledge you've shared but that doesn't mean I'm completely wrong like you are suggesting. Mastin and I have played in many, many games together. Magister Ludi and I have played in many, many games together. We cannot read each other correctly 100% of the time (as you saw with Pony Mafia). You are telling me with this comment that since you have such a long history you are now an expert on BBmolla? I cannot trust that.
The hell? I read the game, interacted with my neighbor and formed an opinion. A strong one. Are you saying that because I have strong opinions and try to push them, that I am scum? This is absurd. You have seen me play as town and form strong opinions just as fast
about players I didn't have nearly as much knowledge about
. Your reasoning is inane. I am not going to sit about and go "oh, I unno" while my townread is wagoned.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:I have PERFECTLY legit reasoning on you. Your whole ISO reeks of scummy behavior. Raising this against you is POINTLESS, because I have no intention of arguing with you, and regardles sof your alignment you are never going to be convinced by a case on you ("oh, I guess you're right, Tierce, I must be scum!"). I'm showing others how scummy your behavior is, and collecting votes on you, because you are acting like Overscum (and scum in general) does and deserve rope for it.
No. You're commenting on it. You ignoring because you think I am scum is worse than anything and ties in with my comment about the Haylen thread.
I will concede points against me that are scummy. I'm not some egotistical person that thinks I am a beacon of towniness. I will give you my logic and reasoning behind comments and let you decide for yourself, but you aren't even giving me the chance to do that. You're simply dismissing me to kill any chance of proving myself to be town.
A lie, simply proven by the fact that I am replying to you. This has NOTHING to do with what I was explaining. I don't have to make a case
for
you. Any half-experienced scum player can wiggle out of cases by acting reasonable and justifying themselves. I have been showing how your behavior is scummy for
others
to see. The case was not made
for
you, it was made for others.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:And you're voting the largest town wagon, who you just fenced on like crazy. Good attempt at self-preservation there, scumbag.
Please explain what largest town wagon means?
Fenced like crazy? I made a single comment and then voted him after you defended him like your life depended on it.
Like you commented on GNR then brought up an absurd 'slip'? Sure. Like you are 'commenting' on my play, and saul's? Sure.
Largest town wagon = largest wagon on town, i.e., the wagon on BB. Btw, hypocrisy noted--you are 'rolling your eyes' at BB voting you, when you were the first jumping on him to save your own scummy skin.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:There is no scum motivation to add to the obvtown pile by adding more players to the game, especially when we can talk between us all the time and I can demand a rapidfire answer from him. It becomes hard to fake behaviors and motivations, and to do it deliberately? To bring someone he knows is usually obvtown and can understand where his views come from? That is a town move, one that Oversoul is trying to obscure with scummy WIFOM by saying "what if he's playing you?"
That is exactly the reason why it would be scum motivated.
We've both been burned by passively thinking someone wouldn't do that as scum (Deas in the Kitty Mafia). Why is that so hard to see?
And that isn't WIFOM. I'm bringing all of the possibilities to light.
Again, I am NOT AN IDIOT. Thanks for being this amazing beacon of ALL THE POSSIBILITIES LOOK AT ME SO TOWNIE, but you are ignoring the obvious. I am not going to lynch anyone who is acting protown and, from all angles, has protown motivations. You are just there going "...but... what if he is scum?" This makes no sense. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'm going to treat it like a duck until it meows.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ BBmolla wrote: ↑ Oversoul wrote:BB as SCUM would choose the person who can read him best, Tierce, to come into the game BECAUSE
he knows that all of his "neighbors" will be his alignment
.
What
Where did I say this
Ever
Obviously you aren't going to say that, especially if you are scum.
I'm speculating which seems to be why I am getting so much heat.
↑ BBmolla wrote:If I was scum, recruiting Tierce would be dumb as shit. She reads me like a book.
I'd have not recruited as scum for pretty much the reasons Tierce has stated.
This is why I think BB is scum...
It looks like a duck. It's a goddamn duck.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote: ↑ BBmolla wrote: ↑ Oversoul wrote:BB as SCUM would choose the person who can read him best, Tierce, to come into the game BECAUSE
he knows that all of his "neighbors" will be his alignment
.
What
Where did I say this
Ever
O hai, may I present to you Overscum, who is making cases out of convenient 'if's and WIFOM and completely ignoring Occam's Razor, as well as completely NOT trying to read either of us outside the recruitment action?
Tierce are you kidding me?
My reason for going after you two is your accusations that I am scum and then your flippant dismissal of my questions because you think I am scum and BB's actions AFTER you were recruited.
WHAT 'flippant dismissal'? You asked me to make a case for you, I explained why that is stupid and leads nowhere. You asked me about Haylen's thread, I said it's irrelevant. Anything else? I'm not the one going OMGOMGOMGSCUUUUUMLYNCH like you did on 2birds.
↑ Oversoul wrote:I gave reasoning as to why you could be scum and you dismissed it. The recruitment is only one aspect. Granted it is a large aspect in my theory, but still there ARE standalone aspects of my theory.
Of course I dismissed it. You are giving reasoning as to "why [you, Tierce] could be scum". There is no reason for me-town to entertain a theory that I'm scum. You're not saying that my behavior is scummy, you are saying that BB recruited a scum role. It's a waste of time for me to dwell on it, because it's false.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:By the way, adding to the crap reasoning by Oversoul: how do you even think it would be balanced to add two scum players to a game while not altering the town pool? Why would BB announce this instead of lying low and recruit scum players 1) without anyone knowing it was his doing and 2) the night before LyLo, thus rendering the game an immediate scum win when town numbers = scum numbers? There is no reason for hypoBBscum-with-recruitable-scumbuddies to recruit last night. None. Ever. No, it does not add 'towncred' he might need now, he could 1) do it in silence and 2) later in the game and no one would know.The more I try to look at this from that "omg they are both scum!!1!11!one!" perspective you might have if you were town, the less sense it makes. You're not stupid, Oversoul. You're scum who knows we're both town and thus isn't even seeing the glaring holes in this theory.
I'm not going to setup speculation or balance speculate since that never ends well at all. I will say one thing, how is adding a town or more fair for any third party/scum? I'm speculating about the information I do have about BB's roles and the possibilities surrounding it.
BB announcing a recruitment would make perfect sense if he thought his life was endanger meaning he wouldn't be able to get to LyLo.
That comment about how I'm not stupid has burned more towns than I can even imagine. Magua tried to use that logic to push my lynch in AFFC after I derped it up and mixed up my colors in my role PM. You've read that game. YOU KNOW MY FEELINGS ON THAT STATEMENT.
And yet, you were speculating on the setup. That's all you are doing, by calling us two scumbuddies based on the recruitment action. And yes, adding town is far fairer--town is always, barring weird cases, the majority. If a nightkill doesn't go through, the next day has one more town than 'normal'--it's a matter of balance, and you can't deny that adding more town is way more balanced than adding scum.
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ saulres wrote:Regardless, what I completely don't understand is how he went from "I personally do not find BB scummy" to thinking that because Tierce is voting for Oversoul, BB is worthy of a vote, especially instead of Tierce. I just don't follow that flow at all.
I've explained. In essence, she is fighting his battle for him while he slithers to the back.
Plus, BB's alignment would be more indicative of Tierce's alignment on the off chance that Tierce was actually town.
Yes, how dare any of us have a life and not post for a while. BB is defending himself, I'm adding my own reasoning.
And there you go again, lynching for 'information' now. Pray tell, if BB flips town, what is your theory about my alignment, since you are so hung up on our roles being indicative of alignment?
↑ Oversoul wrote: ↑ Tierce wrote:For future reference: Amrun, saul, dana jumped off their wagons and onto Phillamon between #601 and #612; likely no more than one scum in this set, see connections with Oversoul
he flips scum.
THIS. THIS right here ladies and gentlemen is why I do not trust Tierce or BBmolla with a damn dollar.
I bolded, underlined, and changed the color of the keyword in this post. IF. IF I flip scum. This comes after Tierce has vehemently saying that I AM/MUST be scum. You do not get to make switches in diction of this sort without a flip or role information and neither of those have happened. Now you aren't so certain?
What utter bollocks.
Here, have a claim: I don't have a guilty on you. As such, I am going to use the term "if" once in a while.
Of course I'm not certain
: I'm town, and no investigative result on you. But you sure are acting scummy, and are exaggerating what I said. Where did I claim that you "MUST" be scum?
Fun fact: last time someone overreacted so much to me having a scumread on them and acted like I was dropping a bridge on them, they flipped scum. (Reck, Destiny Mafia.) If you're so eager to bring up other players' meta into a situation that has nothing to do with them, how about this one?
Come on. Arguing semantics now, when you know damn well that most town does not ever have absolute certainties. I don't 'know' you are scum, I don't 'know' that BB is town. I KNOW you are scummy, and I KNOW you deserve rope for the way you've been acting.
