NY 151: Playground Mafia (Game Over-Mafia Win!)

[Nero Cain]

like you're any better

[DeasVail]

Obviously I'm the only decent scumhunter here, so there's no point in arguing

[Antihero]

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

lolwat?

[GreyICE]

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

Yeah, Shotty isn't gonna do a back and forth with his scumbuddies like that.

[Nero Cain]

obviously.

ALL BOW BEFORE THE GREAT DEASVAIL!!!!

[DeasVail]

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

lolwat?

?

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

Yeah, Shotty isn't gonna do a back and forth with his scumbuddies like that.

So, pretending to dayvig him is rather silly, yes?

[DeasVail]

obviously.

ALL BOW BEFORE THE GREAT DEASVAIL!!!!

Yes, this must happen now.

Also

VOTE: peregrineV

I really think he's the scum here.

[Nero Cain]

Isn't it a lil' late in the DP to be joke voting?

[DeasVail]

What makes you say that?

[GreyICE]

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

Yeah, Shotty isn't gonna do a back and forth with his scumbuddies like that.

So, pretending to dayvig him is rather silly, yes?

Call it wishful thinking.

[DeasVail]

I've never understood why people express desire to vig players they read as town for saying something they find stupid.

[Antihero]

Grey, you do think Nero is town, right?

lolwat?

?

Where did Grey even imply he thought Nero was town (before he said it just now)?

[GreyICE]

I've never understood why people express desire to vig players they read as town for saying something they find stupid.

I desire to vig Nero Cain when I see him on a playerlist.

[Nero Cain]

I've never understood why people express desire to vig players they read as town for saying something they find stupid.

don't worry. I find him pretty useless too.

[DeasVail]

I don't think he did Antihero. Why do you care so much?

[GreyICE]

Admittedly, it's hard to note all the brilliant ways I catch scum when you're not reading the thread, NeroCain.

[Nero Cain]

So who are the scum?

[Antihero]

I don't think he did Antihero. Why do you care so much?

Well that was going to be my question.

Why did

you

care so much?

[DeasVail]

Well that was my question.

[GreyICE]

So who are the scum?

Well to start with, Shotty and Rack.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a v. good start.

[Nero Cain]

tell me o wise one, why was it important to vote for shotty when there was a healthy bandwagon on Rack?

[drmyshotgun]

tell me o wise one, why was it important to vote for shotty when there was a healthy bandwagon on Rack?

I second this opinion.

[HezLucky]

Reread time.

DISCLAIMER: I will not, ever, fully read mastin's walls. I will skim them and look for his opinion.

Page 2:
LLD and drmyshotgun have a friendly banter. NihilisticNinja walks in with

QUOTE #1:
PREMISE #1: drmyshotgun is a fool
PREMISE #2: It's better to remain silent and thought to be a fool than open your mouth and prove it.
CONCLUSION: drmyshotgun should remain silent.

QUOTE #2:
PREMISE #1: It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
PREMISE #2: drmyshotgun is a fool.
???
CONCLUSION: Lambda isn't a fool.

What the fuck? This is so non sequitur it seems FORCED. As if NN is saying something just to say something, just to get on the
friendly side of the other two.
One of these three is definitely maf. This exchange seems too "I'm going to try and look town early on by frolicking about" and
not natural to me. I think it's NN.

Evidently I'm not the only one to think this.

how is ninja already buddying lambda before the game starts.

I'd much rather quick lynch someone. (we can talk theory on this)

Then, um, why haven't you? Quite inconsistent, I would say.

When pressed on this, NN says

OH GODDAMNIT LAMBDA CCV CAUGHT US. POST SO I CAN DISTANCE FROM YOU.

This is not only a cheeky overreaction, but tells me that Lambda is probably town by association. NN is even more likely to be maf.

Your "He should be policy lynched because he's a VI. He's a VI because argumentum ad populum." is not acceptable. Your "VIs make great wagons" is opportunistic as hell, and your explanation is not good enough. I actually KNEW why a shotty policy lynch was on the table- I wanted to know why the advocates were pushing for it.

NN is going after Nero for the policy lynch. Why not go after RedFF? I think he was the first to propose it.


I feel like I'm doing this all wrong. I'm going to try a different method of the re-read. The ISO re-read


ANTIHERO: #476 Iso 5 - happiness seems legit. Seems maniacal almost. Weak-town.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ANY OF YOU CAN OBTAIN READS THIS FAST. Ugh.

Unlike Benmage he doesn't shy away or act suspiciously when he's asked to elaborate. Antihero's play has also evolved as the game goes on.
See #505 for example, where he stops just posting reads and actually gets involved in the game. This is the difference between Antihero and
benmage. Benmage is consistently useless and fake-scumhunting, while Antihero just needed the time to get into the game.


BENMAGE:

I've already summarized. He plays like he has something to hide. Only gives his reads with no explanations and doesn't actually actively push
on anyone. He seems like he is coasting through the game, and that is BEFORE his recent afk. My vote stands. A player this aggressive should
actually be leading lynches, not standing idly by, especially if he, as he says it, has the "accolades" to catch a lot of mafia.

I've listed the rest of the case on him when he asked me. And all he could be like is "wrong. I disagree." without giving instances of where
he has actually contributed. He hasn't. He's maf. He needs to die.

DEASVEIL:

Weak read here but scumhunting looks legit. Just takign his entire game as a whole, DV evaluated all of the players, decided he didn't have
any super-scum reads, and DIDN'T TRY TO STRETCH IT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE HE DID. Eventually plops a vote on Pine after much deliberation. I like.
Could post more though.

DRMYSHOTGUN:

#27 (Iso #1) just seems very carefree. Drmyshotgun just seems like he's being himself, not trying too hard to fit in.
#41 (Iso #3) is also proactive. I like this guy.

Claims Universal Backup. Sure. Please stop voting him.

He's not scumhunting very much but, unlike some of the others, he doesn't really care how he looks.

DRMYSHOTTYIZIK:

Hasn't done much besides fight with Nero and lurk. You'd think that would describe my game, but I actually point out scum when I see it.

FIRESTARTER:

#266 is heavy heavy IIoA. You shouldn't post that it just makes you look bad -_-.

I feel like his post was bad but that he was going through the process legitimately. If I thought Psyche's vote on rack looked like
a bus too I would be all over it. Town.

GREYICE (replaced PRAETYRE):

Five posts in. There is no way I can evaluate at this point.

But hell I sheeped GreyICE in Neruzian era mafia and it worked out EXCELLENTLY.

GreyICE, What do you think about Benmage?

JASONT1981:

You're like me. You need to post a hell of a lot more so that we can get a read on you. Not good to

Leaning town. Is pulling out the relevant stuff out of the game, showing frustration on his reads and has a believable reads list.

But that's really all I can go on right now. Please post more [or even just make your posts count for more]

JUNPEI:

All you've done is one liners. All you do is bitch about how long Mastin's walls are. You're lurking like Jason and I, but unlike
either of us you've done nothing but post fluff to make yourself LOOK active.

Scum.

KUBLAIKHAN:

(Note: scooby has officially been fucking his GF for 1 day, 4 hours, and 5 minutes straight as of this post! Way to go! Hope you're using lube and definitely consult a doctor afterwards!)

Someone should sig this. LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

HezLucky is also making a lot of noise but isn't being productive

Posted after I picked a fight with Benmage. WHAT. THE. FUCK? I find you scum and I'm not being productive? -_-
I don't like you now because of it.

Not on my shortlist for scum but I will reevaluate [READ: He could be scum but there are too many people on my scumlist right now, so only
if some of them flip town will I care to attack]

I certainly don't have anything cmoing out of KK's posts that reads town, though.

LADY LAMBDADELTA:

Prob maf. Refuses to nuke me despite calling me maf and knowing I have the fail-safe. A one-versus-one trad... oh wait.

LLD has awesome reads [calling Mastin scum, Ninja scum, etc.] ... either really pro or bussing. Either way, a prime person for me to sheep D1.

Actually scratch that. I am going to be an LLD fanboy for the first few days. This aggression is awesome. [#127 Iso 6]

Actually then she calls Ninja town in #133. I am now scared. LLD seems like she would be a very strong maf player.
...then how come I didn't feel this way when she actually was scum in DEFCON 3.0?

Town. By meta. Hope I'm right.

[Haven't gotten to Rack yet alphabetically but I might just sheep LLD on that read]

MACROS:

Acts all confused and bitches about the number of posts at the beginning of the game.

That's a scumtell where I am concerned -- I can't see town doing this (town would be like "yo guys I haven't read shit screw u")

...but then he votes Benmage. NEVERMIND.

I don't like his #537. Willing to switch to Pain or Rack? Why don't you provide some justification? You haven't even mentioned them all game.

...but on the other hand - stays off rack and points out Benmage to the rest of the crowd. He could've just taken the easy road on Rack.
Would be consistent with the rest of his game - but he doesn't! Benmage isn't exactly an easy target.

I don't think he's scum anymore. He's just anti-town and needs to fix that shit up.

MASTIN2:

See disclaimer, guys. There is going to be some skimming.

I feel like I'm biased. If anyone else put that much work into the game they would probably be auto-town out of effort, but this is almost
Mastin's meta. It's the same reason I'm biased against players like IS or Fate - I know they can be scum, and even though they are statistically
more likely to be town in any given game, I don't want to be duped that ONE GAME they turn out scum so I put them in the scum pile.

Same with Mastin. Given what I know, I probably won't listen to a single one of his reads.

HezLucky: I've seen Hez as town, and I've been linked to his play as scum, but I can't really say that I remember what his play was like. He kinda gives off townvibes, but I'm not sure, yet.

You've played with scum-Hez. I was a strong town read. Wasn't your fault - I was a strong town read for nearly everyone and was fluke nightkilled that game. [Tough Guy Mafia]
(That was me playing well though I don't have anything close to a consistent meta)

Okay let's check out Mastin's scumreads.

...yeah oh god I can't take him seriously. Null for now I don't even fucking know.

Definitely suffers from confirmation bias though.

MAXOUS:

Are you a good player?
- This guy sounds like a busser.
- His scumhunting seems very, well, directed.
- Interesting that he doesn't tend to reveal townreads very much.
- I just don't agree with most of his reads. But that's why I'm asking the good player question above.
- I also saw the Firestarter-thinking-Psyche-was-bussing-rack post, and was able to put two-and-two together even before Firestarter
explained himself and the fact that you weren't stupifies me.

Leaning scum but I want to see more.

NERO:

Nero is maf. I've been saying this since he refused to Hezwavre.

He seems like he's trying to look town, but it's weird because this seems like TOWN trying to look TOWN.
(I have done this before - I hope I didn't just out a PR - I don't think so why would he ask to be tunnelled?)
Which is fucked.
He gives off the vibe (sometimes) that he doesn't care how he's perceived, but other times it looks a little forced.
He's participating but it's mostly one liners.

I can't read him but leaning town by PoE.

NIHILISTIC NINJA:

Scum, mentioend above. His early play was cheeky as fuck. And his #79 (I've read your newsletter) comment is almost saying to
Nero "I am going to passively disagree with you but I am scared of being OMGUSed so I will say something nice about you"

Town are not tihs passive and eager to please.

PINE:

#103 iso #2 - why are all of your reads backwards? Town can't be this dumb? Or maybe it's intentional...
#118 iso #8 - is similar frustration to what I often show. People are like "I have reads on all but 2 players" in the first
few pages and I am like WHAT THE FUCK

More likely dumb town.

...but has made basically no contribution since the game started. o_O

Will revisit on later days if he doesn't pick up, for sure.

PSYCHE:
#209 iso #1 is cheeky.
#265 iso #4 calls NN misrep. Either that's a poor OMGUS [possible], or given my scumread on NN that's a half-hearted response
to your scumbuddy without committing against him [you probably think he'll do better than you - nope! you're both caught =D]

Slight scumread here. I feel like I've got too much scum, though. :S

RACK:

#377 buddies Mastin. Mastin is town by association now I take it back. Don't even need to read Mastin I can just read people's opinions
on him =D.

Can someone explain this Rack wagon to me? I'm only reading ISOs - is it because he's massively lurked and been useless? What makes him
a better lynch than, say, Junpei (who is an awesome lynch btw).

REDFF:

pushing the shotty VI PL day 1 is TERRIBLE. I am opposed to policy lynches but your reasoning isn't even good. Neither is your
shrugging off of Pine's attack on you (oh he always thinks I'm scum). It doesn't read like a town response at all... reads more like
a nervous laugh.

And the whole #153 - ugh - you basically just said "Shotty is town but let's lynch him anyway"

And this is ALL you've been focusing on today? No real attempt at scumhunting besides a half-page at #389?

You can burn.

SCOOBY:

Reads town. After only a few posts. Yay. Am I doing it right?

MINI-LIBRARIAN:

Contributing. The difference between him and some of the others is that he is viewing the game from a town-POV. ie. he points out that
Mastin's reads are bad, because he has taken the time to get his own reads and [like mine] they disagree with Mastin's in many areas. A scum
would simply say "Mastin is town" and wouldn't comment on his reads, because scum can't make legit reads (Can they?)

All-in-all his scumhunting does look legit from here.

VIJAY:

Holy fuck last person.

Also cheeky as fuck. We can't have six maf can we? Same boat as Psyche. Both cheeky as fuck and one of them is scum for it, but probably
not both

Okay he is a lot better once the game actually starts - I like his reason in #383 for voting Kublai [he points out an inconsistency
that isn't exactly easy to come up with]

Closer to null, actually, but he's the very last person I'm assessing and I already have 5 scum and a few null-leaning-scum reads
so I'll put him town.

TOWN: Antihero[CCV], DeasVeil, DrMyShotgun, Firestarter, JasonT1981, LLD, Macros, Mastin, Nero, Pine, Scooby, Mini-Librarian, Vijay
MAF: Benmage, Junpei, NihilisticNinja, Psyche, RedFF
- this is a good list, good mix of active/inactive/aggressive/etc. that you would expect from random generation.
FUCK IF I KNOW: Drmyshottyizik [can't read], GreyICE [want to believe in, but just got here], KublaiKhan [want to say scum but I've got
too many scum above], Maxous [see KK], rack [screw you guys I need more posts]



Vote stands. Dear god Benmage is so maf.

[HezLucky]

NO SPOILER TAGS READ MY SHIT I'VE BARELY POSTED.

[DeasVail]

Thanks for your post Hez.

Now I've just realised something. In the last 5 games I've played with RedFF, he's been scum and I've always read him as town, so I'm just going to sheep whoever sounds the most convincing when it comes to him.

As far as your scumreads go, I have Nihilistic as strong town, Psyche and Benmage as weak town, Junpei as null, and redff as (see above). I'll probably take closer looks at them, but I don't think I'll be supportive of wagons on them at this stage.